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Battleship advice
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Alyssa SaintCroix
Leihkasse Stammheim
#1 - 2012-01-25 03:06:59 UTC
Just looking for a bit of training advice I guess. I've been a miner/industrialist all my EVE life, I've got a Drake and some combat skills that allow me to easily blitz through level 3 missions. I'd like to move up to level 4's for some extra income or something else to do, so I'm kind of in the market for a ship that's fairly easy to pilot (human skill wise, not SP skill wise). Given that I've got some of the skills from the Drake, would moving up the Raven be the next logical choice? I guess after that it's the lovable Tengu? Skills I'm not too concerned with as I can skillplan/train most anything, what this character is doing on a daily basis isn't that important.

Eventually, down the road, I'd like to move out to nullsec, is it worthwhile to stay with the missiles? or swap training over now to something like an Abaddon/Apoc?

Does that all make any sense? Lol
kalbrak Jr
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-01-25 04:30:30 UTC
I would train up for a raven and than switch to gunnery skills so you can fly a Rokh. No need to cross train for Amarr.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-01-25 05:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Alyssa SaintCroix wrote:
Eventually, down the road, I'd like to move out to nullsec, is it worthwhile to stay with the missiles? or swap training over now to something like an Abaddon/Apoc?

Does that all make any sense? Lol

Do you want to pilot ships you enjoy, or ships other people tell you to use?

It takes about 2 weeks to train for every T1 turret, including the support skills to 3. It takes about a month to train every race to frigate 4 + cruiser 4 + battleship 4. I know because I'm currently on this path.

Personally I wouldn't worry about whats down the road, as it is really easy to make a change at any time, especially when you have all the general skills covered.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-01-25 10:01:57 UTC
That Drake can run most lvl4 missions if you put the skill points in it.

Raven is the easy choise to follow up, unless you've time left and drown in money your next step towards the Tengu would be a CNR and/or a Golem. on the other hand if you don't go towards a battleship you could put the SP in maxing out your Drake, Aside from Battlecruiser all skills that make your Drake a batter ship will make your Tengu a batter ship.

It's a fortune to fly one and be able to loose it though.
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#5 - 2012-01-25 13:00:44 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
That Drake can run most lvl4 missions if you put the skill points in it.


The drake doesn't even need a lot of sp to run all L4s (shield skills for T2 tank, T2 drones, 4+ in missile support), but most of the time it's not worth it. The DPS is so anemic even with good skills that rushing L3s will get you more standings, isk and lp for the same missioning time.

OP if your goal is the tengu, imo don't even bother with the Raven. It requires more "human skills" and SP to actually outtank a drake in most mission conditions, and the DPS increase is only sensible on battleships, which are not the majority of L4s rats.
Navy raven offers more bang (and about the same tank) but for the price you can get a far more versatile Tengu.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-25 16:08:14 UTC
Alyssa SaintCroix wrote:
I'd like to move up to level 4's for some extra income or something else to do, so I'm kind of in the market for a ship that's fairly easy to pilot (human skill wise, not SP skill wise)


From a purely easy to pilot perspective - I think the rattlesnake is by far and away the most forgiving battleship to handle in a lvl 4 mission and it would use the tanking skills you've developed for the drake. You'd also have to work on the drone skills to make it effective though.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-01-25 17:25:11 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
From a purely easy to pilot perspective - I think the rattlesnake is by far and away the most forgiving battleship to handle in a lvl 4 mission and it would use the tanking skills you've developed for the drake. You'd also have to work on the drone skills to make it effective though.


Navy Scorpion is similarly easy to handle and doesn't require drone skills. It isn't exactly a speed demon in missions though.

OP, if you're financially secure, you can safely skip training for any of the Caldari BSs and go straight for a Tengu. You already have heavy missile skills so all you'd really need are ship skills.

Ravens are lumbering beasts that don't really complete missions that much faster than their smaller cousins. In niche situations they aren't bad, but I've never been fond of them. I never even sat in one until I had Cal BS 5 and CM 4 and it still sucked compared to the NH I was used to flying at the time. T2 cruises didn't help that much and when it eventually got hung up on a structure in a mission I let it slowly bleed to death and never replaced it.

But each to their own.
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-01-27 21:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Cathy Drall
Alyssa SaintCroix wrote:
I'd like to move up to level 4's for some extra income or something else to do, so I'm kind of in the market for a ship that's fairly easy to pilot (human skill wise, not SP skill wise). Given that I've got some of the skills from the Drake, would moving up the Raven be the next logical choice? I guess after that it's the lovable Tengu?

What human skills are concerned, a Tengu is by far the easiest ship to do L4s with. They don't take that long to train, if you go for optimized skills and T2 modules. You don't need any drone skills either as a mission Tengu fit doesn't use them.

It's speed and signature tank makes every amount of battleships in missions an easy prey - the geatest danger for a Tengu are in fact webber frigates. For the rest you can just orbit something and shoot away. You can do most missions without even using your shield booster! Even the AngeI Extravaganza bonus room is a piece of cake (although you'll have to use your shield booster). Just don't get webbed and you should be fine.

Also, the Tengu has a Kinetic bonus which is good against all but EM weak rats as most rats have kinetic as first or second lowest resist. I also missioned in a Maelstrom and Abbaddon - they're much sluggier (moving between acceleration gates can get tedious) and you have to watch out for aggro a lot more. If you know the missions and know what you're doing you can do a lot of L4 missions faster in a well fitted battleship though.

Tengu plusses:
- You can use your Drake skills
- No drone micromanagement
- Not much aggro control needed
- Easy mode
- Great range (over 100km with skills at V)
- Fast
- Doesn't take that long to train
- Also usable as wormhole, incursion, exploration or PvP ship
- Can easily speed/sig tank a lot of battleships

Tengu minusses:
- Expensive (as you need some faction stuff for a good fit on top of its price)
- Vulnerable to suicide gankers
- Less DPS than a well fitted battleship
- Mediocre against EM weak rats (Blood Raiders, Sansha, drones)
- You lose some SP if your Tengu gets blown up with you in it
- Webbers are your greatest vulnerability in missions

N.B. As below poster says, some pilots don't train for Caldari battleships and cruise missiles - as not a lot of good ships use them - and just train for a Drake / Tengu and heavy missiles. And then switch to Amarr or Minmatar battleships and large turrets. At least I did.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-01-27 23:57:45 UTC
Have to recomend the tengu allso.

Best bang for your allready existing SP and you get the least "wasted" points like cruise missiles that the raven would require.

Get a tengu and perfect it and after that you have a money making machine you can use while training for whatever you want (t2 projectiles for a mach and rest of the required minnie crosstrain ^^)
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#10 - 2012-01-28 08:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
If you want easy aim for a domi to start.

So easy they can be used afk.

Once you master that move into a rattlesnake and you can mix your missle shield skills in and have the easiest L4's posible.

So easy you never look at mission guides again, You never change hardners and you can still play it active and be on par with the other fast grinding bs's.


Ravens are serious effort. If you stick with caldari only get your tengu asap.
Fozzy Dorsai
Friendly but Irritating
#11 - 2012-01-28 15:54:23 UTC
Alyssa SaintCroix wrote:
Just looking for a bit of training advice I guess. I've been a miner/industrialist all my EVE life, I've got a Drake and some combat skills that allow me to easily blitz through level 3 missions. I'd like to move up to level 4's for some extra income or something else to do, so I'm kind of in the market for a ship that's fairly easy to pilot (human skill wise, not SP skill wise). Given that I've got some of the skills from the Drake, would moving up the Raven be the next logical choice? I guess after that it's the lovable Tengu? Skills I'm not too concerned with as I can skillplan/train most anything, what this character is doing on a daily basis isn't that important.

Eventually, down the road, I'd like to move out to nullsec, is it worthwhile to stay with the missiles? or swap training over now to something like an Abaddon/Apoc?

Does that all make any sense? Lol

For a shield/missile pilot, caldari would be the best missioning choice. IMHO the 'best' ships depending on mission and play preferences are the Tengu, CNR, SNI, and Rattler. The latter three are cruise missile boats and the natural progression there includes the Raven.
No single ship is best. For instance, Tengu is less efficient thatn CNR against heavy BS missions, especially Sansha/Blood. CNR isn't near as tanky as SNI, as speedy as a Tengu, nor AFKable as a Rattler.
However, I tend to agree with the majority of posters that the Tengu is probably the next progression for you. It is a much more flexable ship, doesn't require you to start through the cruise missile skills, tends to be more fun, and will probably be more useful to you in nullsec if/when you get there.
I fly all four of these on a regular basis to get away from the tedium on trading an mining. I tend to use the CNR the most, but would use the Tengu more if I wasn't in Amarr space most of the time.
As an industialist, likely ISK won't be an issue. And you can always start playing .01 isk wars on the market to pickup the ship and modules as you do your train-up.
PS: As a previous poster said, the weakness of the Tengu is if it gets webbed. Most L4 NPCs can't hit the thing as it's spinning around them at 600 clicks. So your first job will be to kill anything that might web you, typically frigates and stasis towers. Watch for the same when a new spawn comes to play. If not webbed, BSs are little threat.