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CCP can we just bring GTCs back

Author
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#21 - 2017-07-29 15:39:57 UTC
Thomas Lot wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
Plex has gone through the roof because it's now used for everything. MOST people use it for game time, correct me if I'm wrong. But they are paying an over inflated price for something quite frankly they just don't want or need.

Many just want to pay for game time, not ingame commodities.

I really wish we had the GTCs back and have the correct reasonable price just for game time and not pay for everything else i don't want



Wrong... most used aspect of PLEX is skill extractors for the multiple hundreds if not thousands of farms. (I am counting the PLEX that goes towards omega'ing those farms as well) Solution is to double the isk cost of Extractors and grab the popcorn as dozens of skill farmers scream and unsub their worthless, economy ruining accounts.


OK if you say so... dumbest suggestion yet but meh
Anna Maria Yolo
Neutron Blaster Solutions
#22 - 2017-07-29 15:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Anna Maria Yolo
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Make Plex cap at 2m,
All items on nes store are seeded as faction drops and put into the loyalty stores like sisters of Eve cosmetics.
Delete SP farms and ban the owners.
Problem solved



LOL

WHO'S PROBLEM SOLVED?

You love communism, don't you? In Soviet Union there were fixed prices even printed on the product, and at the same moment the store shelves were empty. If the plex cap was set at the 2m, you would have no chance to buy even a single microplex, because there would be 0 on the market. I'm really impressed your unbeliveable lack of basic economy knowledge.

This is not CCP's problem, that you have problem with farming PLEX. You dont want to sub account (give them money), so why they should care about your expectations of PLEX price? I suppose that CCP cares about their profit not your vision "EVE online free to play"
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#23 - 2017-07-29 15:52:26 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
So kinda like the old system where plex was for game time, and arum for everything else? That system that saw plex prices between 1200-1400 before rhe split? Your dreaming if you think things will EVE go back to 600m per month again.



ermm get it right PLEX was STILL USED for everything else, and aurum was just for clothing... jeez...


No it wasn't, aurum was used for anything that came from the new eden store, plex could be converted in to aurum so plex was still used as the base for all the prchases, aurum didn't magically appear from nowhere :P
Anna Maria Yolo
Neutron Blaster Solutions
#24 - 2017-07-29 15:57:19 UTC
Cypherous wrote:


No it wasn't, aurum was used for anything that came from the new eden store, plex could be converted in to aurum so plex was still used as the base for all the prchases, aurum didn't magically appear from nowhere :P


excluding mystery aurum givaways, magical aurum codes and mythical aurum starter packs. (750 AUR for a new account?)

Regardless of that you are right - aur could be used to buy a plex and plex could be converted to AUR
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#25 - 2017-07-29 19:35:49 UTC
Cypherous wrote:
aurum didn't magically appear from nowhere :P
Sure it did. Log in to acct management, select Aurum pack, give cc number and voila, instant Aurum created from nothing.

Mr Epeen Cool
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#26 - 2017-07-29 22:03:17 UTC
when you traded a GTC it applied game time directly to your account, there was no hording of GTCs. Some people buy PLEX to horde it and use it as an investment. Power creep and min/maxing have greatly reduced the value of isk over time, we've seen prices of unique assets pretty much just go up over the life of eve.

Sure GTC prices would closely follow plex prices, but if they were just a little cheaper than PLEX people would probably buy them in volume, and having a portion of gametime being consumable only it might reduce upwards price pressure somewhat.

That said they recently dropped to only the plex market to simplify things, I'm not sure they would want to add a GTC category again.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
Solitaire.
#27 - 2017-07-29 23:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Anna Maria Yolo wrote:
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Make Plex cap at 2m,
All items on nes store are seeded as faction drops and put into the loyalty stores like sisters of Eve cosmetics.
Delete SP farms and ban the owners.
Problem solved



LOL

WHO'S PROBLEM SOLVED?

You love communism, don't you? In Soviet Union there were fixed prices even printed on the product, and at the same moment the store shelves were empty. If the plex cap was set at the 2m, you would have no chance to buy even a single microplex, because there would be 0 on the market. I'm really impressed your unbeliveable lack of basic economy knowledge.

This is not CCP's problem, that you have problem with farming PLEX. You dont want to sub account (give them money), so why they should care about your expectations of PLEX price? I suppose that CCP cares about their profit not your vision "EVE online free to play"


No it wouldn't. They would all be sold at 2m. There would be no hoarding because price wouldn't fluctuate or rise meaning it wouldn't be a hoarded investing item. You buy it, you use it or sell it and someone buys it's and uses it because the price for is set.
The amount available on market would skyrocket instantly.

Also the fact you're trying to bring communism or the Soviet union into the conversation means you have no idea what communism is or what the Soviet Union was. Plus it's irrelevant. Smoke and mirrors from someone who knows nothing about the economy.
Kunming
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#28 - 2017-08-01 13:40:57 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Plex has gone through the roof because it's now used for everything. MOST people use it for game time, correct me if I'm wrong. But they are paying an over inflated price for something quite frankly they just don't want or need.

Many just want to pay for game time, not ingame commodities.

I really wish we had the GTCs back and have the correct reasonable price just for game time and not pay for everything else i don't want

If you have 2 different currencies ppl will buy the one (paying RL money) that will bring them most ISK for their purchase. I can already counter your counter argument, which will be that ppl will buy the PLEX currency for ingame skins, cloths, injectors etc and the GTC currency wont be effected, well who buys GTCs? Ppl who want to sell it for ISK, so you would end up with not many ppl buying GTCs or the 2 currencies reaching an equilibrium in demand/profit, hence coming to the point we have now...
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#29 - 2017-08-01 17:04:07 UTC
Kunming wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
Plex has gone through the roof because it's now used for everything. MOST people use it for game time, correct me if I'm wrong. But they are paying an over inflated price for something quite frankly they just don't want or need.

Many just want to pay for game time, not ingame commodities.

I really wish we had the GTCs back and have the correct reasonable price just for game time and not pay for everything else i don't want

If you have 2 different currencies ppl will buy the one (paying RL money) that will bring them most ISK for their purchase. I can already counter your counter argument, which will be that ppl will buy the PLEX currency for ingame skins, cloths, injectors etc and the GTC currency wont be effected, well who buys GTCs? Ppl who want to sell it for ISK, so you would end up with not many ppl buying GTCs or the 2 currencies reaching an equilibrium in demand/profit, hence coming to the point we have now...


So.your saying GTCs will still be 1.5bil for 30days
I don't believe that for.a second
Kunming
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#30 - 2017-08-01 18:23:03 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Kunming wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
Plex has gone through the roof because it's now used for everything. MOST people use it for game time, correct me if I'm wrong. But they are paying an over inflated price for something quite frankly they just don't want or need.

Many just want to pay for game time, not ingame commodities.

I really wish we had the GTCs back and have the correct reasonable price just for game time and not pay for everything else i don't want

If you have 2 different currencies ppl will buy the one (paying RL money) that will bring them most ISK for their purchase. I can already counter your counter argument, which will be that ppl will buy the PLEX currency for ingame skins, cloths, injectors etc and the GTC currency wont be effected, well who buys GTCs? Ppl who want to sell it for ISK, so you would end up with not many ppl buying GTCs or the 2 currencies reaching an equilibrium in demand/profit, hence coming to the point we have now...


So.your saying GTCs will still be 1.5bil for 30days
I don't believe that for.a second


No you did not understand what I said... lets say we have PLEX and GTC seperately, you can convert the GTC into an ingame item like old times and put it onto the market. I dunno the prices right now but lets say a 30-day GTC costs 15$ and 500 PLEX cost the same. Ppl who want to buy ingame cosmetic items or injectors will buy the PLEX straight away, then there are those who want to get ISK for RL money they have 2 options, the GTC or PLEX. If, now, you get 1.5Bil ISK for 500 PLEX and only 1 Bil ISK for GTC, that person will go for buying the PLEX, over time the age old rules of supply and demand will apply and the 15$ conversion value for either the GTC or the PLEX will have the same ISK value, more or less.

In the end both will have the same price, 500 PLEX or a 30-day GTC, in ISK. I cant think of a way to avoid this, every artificial manipulation will hurt CCPs income so they wont do it.
l1j
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2017-08-01 23:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: l1j
CCP is intentionally guiding plex prices upward to force people into paying $$ instead of paying through in game means. Plex prices will continue to rise and plateau at a price that guarantees the most amount of people willing to pay 💰 to play are doing so.

Center for Advanced Fudda' Muckin' Studies

Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2017-08-02 18:06:03 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Kueyen wrote:
Won't work. Every item that can be legally bought for real-world currency and be sold for in-game currency will gravitate towards the same isk/$ ratio, regardless of what it is or can be used for.

e.g.
  • a Plex costs 20$ / 500 units, and sells ingame for 1.6B isk / 500 units, used ingame for 30 days of Omega time, or all kinds of other things.
  • You propose that an alternate item Plox exists, that also costs 20$ / unit, but sells ingame (e.g. on forums) for only 800M isk / unit, and that can be used only to buy 30 days of Omega time.

A person looking to $ into isk — the only reason to buy plex from CCP AND then sell it on the in-game market (as opposed to buying Plex from CCP and then using it to buy services or nexus store items) — can now choose to either
  1. get 80M isk/$ by buying Plex and selling it on the market, or
  2. get 40M isk/$ by buying Plox and selling it on the market (or on the forums as you so fondly remember, with increased hassle).

No-one is going to go for option B until it offers the same (or better) isk/$ ratio as option A. This phenomenon is what prompted CCP to merge PLEX and AURUM in the first place.

You seem to think there will be this item Plax, that sells ingame for 800M isk / unit, and can be used to buy 30 days of Omega time. The phenomenon described above indicates this is only possible if CCP sells Plax for only 10$. This item would have conversion parity with Plex, and therefore be viable.

In summary: every request for an alternate currency that is
  • bought from CCP for real-world currency,
  • can be traded to other players for isk, and
  • can only be used to buy Omega game time
basically boils down to asking CCP to reduce the number of $ player A has to pay to allow player B to play as Omega for a month.

Just campaign for CCP to reduce the number of Plex needed to buy a month of Omega time then, instead of these convoluted schemes that won't work anyway.



Excuse me but you do realise that GTC where available from the start of eve? I'm not suggesting creating any thing new at all. The fact is plex is overvalued purely because it has multiple uses and not just for adding game time
However I bet the majority of people.use plex.for adding game time.rather than dual char training. I personally don't care for that added value.and the extra cost it's giving me
I just want game time. Using GTCs will allpw.people to buy and sell and ofc that CCP still profits. The prices should drop significantly. PLEX should then be used for everything else. Therefore the price of PLEX reduces also. As people will only buy it for ingame commodities.


If something has multiple uses then it is not over valued.

The only way this would work would be to reduce all of the other things you can use PLEX for. No more buying things like skins, no more dual training, no more character transfers with PLEX, etc. You'd have to just allow them to be used for just game time. The price would then drop.

However, pleas to do this are nothing more and simple rent seeking--i.e. people looking to benefit at the expense of others. Everyone who holds PLEX would basically be screwed over in favor of those who want to PLEX their accounts. Also, people who buy PLEX or after this change GTCs to get ISK would also be screwed over. If the price drops to half, such players would have to buy 2x the PLEX/GTCs to get the same amount of ISK.

Really, what these posts should use the following wording:

"Hi CCP,

Can you please f**k over players who hold PLEX/buy PLEX for ISK so that I can benefit.

K, thanx bye."

At least you be honest.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2017-08-02 18:06:58 UTC
l1j wrote:
CCP is intentionally guiding plex prices upward to force people into paying $$ instead of paying through in game means. Plex prices will continue to rise and plateau at a price that guarantees the most amount of people willing to pay 💰 to play are doing so.


Roll

Good Lord...

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2017-08-02 18:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Kunming wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
Kunming wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
Plex has gone through the roof because it's now used for everything. MOST people use it for game time, correct me if I'm wrong. But they are paying an over inflated price for something quite frankly they just don't want or need.

Many just want to pay for game time, not ingame commodities.

I really wish we had the GTCs back and have the correct reasonable price just for game time and not pay for everything else i don't want

If you have 2 different currencies ppl will buy the one (paying RL money) that will bring them most ISK for their purchase. I can already counter your counter argument, which will be that ppl will buy the PLEX currency for ingame skins, cloths, injectors etc and the GTC currency wont be effected, well who buys GTCs? Ppl who want to sell it for ISK, so you would end up with not many ppl buying GTCs or the 2 currencies reaching an equilibrium in demand/profit, hence coming to the point we have now...


So.your saying GTCs will still be 1.5bil for 30days
I don't believe that for.a second


No you did not understand what I said... lets say we have PLEX and GTC seperately, you can convert the GTC into an ingame item like old times and put it onto the market. I dunno the prices right now but lets say a 30-day GTC costs 15$ and 500 PLEX cost the same. Ppl who want to buy ingame cosmetic items or injectors will buy the PLEX straight away, then there are those who want to get ISK for RL money they have 2 options, the GTC or PLEX. If, now, you get 1.5Bil ISK for 500 PLEX and only 1 Bil ISK for GTC, that person will go for buying the PLEX, over time the age old rules of supply and demand will apply and the 15$ conversion value for either the GTC or the PLEX will have the same ISK value, more or less.

In the end both will have the same price, 500 PLEX or a 30-day GTC, in ISK. I cant think of a way to avoid this, every artificial manipulation will hurt CCPs income so they wont do it.


Right.

If I have $x and GTC and PLEX (500) both cost $x. I am going to spend my $x on either a GTC or PLEX to sell for ISK.

Now, if GTC = 250 PLEX in terms of ISK why would I buy a GTC and sell it in game. Why would I be subsidizing your game time?

Nobody would buy GTCs as it would be just foolish to do so. It is literally buying high and selling low...on purpose. It would only work if you really truly think that everyone is a completely blinkered idiot who can't do simple arithmetic. Since even a post modernist PhD English Lit major can do this kind of math....nobody is going to buy GTCs. Or if they do the price they will ask will be that of 500 PLEX. So by itself, reintroducing GTCs would do nothing. Literally nothing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2017-08-02 18:49:43 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Make Plex cap at 2m,
All items on nes store are seeded as faction drops and put into the loyalty stores like sisters of Eve cosmetics.
Delete SP farms and ban the owners.
Problem solved


Yes because having no PLEX is better than having some PLEX. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2017-08-02 19:06:54 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
No it wouldn't. They would all be sold at 2m. There would be no hoarding because price wouldn't fluctuate or rise meaning it wouldn't be a hoarded investing item. You buy it, you use it or sell it and someone buys it's and uses it because the price for is set.
The amount available on market would skyrocket instantly.

Also the fact you're trying to bring communism or the Soviet union into the conversation means you have no idea what communism is or what the Soviet Union was. Plus it's irrelevant. Smoke and mirrors from someone who knows nothing about the economy.



Let me fix this for you....

Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Yes it would. Some, but not enough would all be sold at 2m. There would be hoarding because while the market price wouldn't fluctuate or rise meaning the actual value would still be increasing over time. You buy it, you use or you keep it because you don't know when you'll be able to buy more because with a price ceiling there will be excess demand--i.e. a shortage.
The amount available on market would drop precipitously because that is what happens when you fix the price below the market clearing price....shortages.

After all, wage and price controls have worked so well in Venezuela.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#37 - 2017-08-02 19:12:48 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes because having no PLEX is better than having some PLEX. Roll


Agree. I'd rather have no PLEX when it's broken and near impossible to use for it's stated purpose. Which is as an optional way to acquire game time without having to commit to a subscription rather than as game gold.

It's like wanting to keep a sinus medicine on the market that doesn't help sinus problems because it makes a really good (but super expensive) shoe polish.

Mr Epeen Cool
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2017-08-03 00:03:59 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes because having no PLEX is better than having some PLEX. Roll


Agree. I'd rather have no PLEX when it's broken and near impossible to use for it's stated purpose. Which is as an optional way to acquire game time without having to commit to a subscription rather than as game gold.

It's like wanting to keep a sinus medicine on the market that doesn't help sinus problems because it makes a really good (but super expensive) shoe polish.

Mr Epeen Cool


Then don't buy PLEX. Problem solved.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Spank mehard
Deadspace Depot
Evictus.
#39 - 2017-08-03 13:48:55 UTC
keeping aurum and plex separate was a good thing honestly

plex value is too high and the ratio of people who buy them to unemployeds who sub their accounts with them is out of wack and not going to fix itself anytime soon

I forsee many miners giving up and a mineral price hike soon

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