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Hilti Enaka
Assisted Homicide
#1 - 2017-07-12 19:38:25 UTC
After years of running reactions to fund my low sec and null sec pvp fleets, with the upcoming changes moon mining i am already starting to feel the pinch and this has holted the fleets i once ran with incredible pride and enjoyment. The operation itself was 16 poses and i would buy everything from JITA and move it into my low sec system to react and move back to JITA to sell. This hole operation was fun, avoiding the gankers (not so successfully on occassions) avoiding war decs and trying to keep my operation safe.

I hope one day the market settles down and I can recreate the operation however I fear the change to moon mining is going to end the game for many players. The community aspect of eve is great however Fozzie has pretty much made a tedious operation more tedious more dull and has not taken into account the declining player base coupled with FTP accounts.

I've never wanted anybody to lose their job but wow, Fozzie has stirred up a storm that started 2+ years ago and since then every "great idea" has resulted in less players signing in. Cau you, CCP - Fozzie, Seagull etc, who keep saying they are listening to the player base actually listen to your player base and stop with the lip service please?

thanks
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2017-07-12 19:55:23 UTC
Chicken Little wrote:

The sky is falling!



The problem with moon mining was that it was passive income. Large alliances holding lots of moons had potentially massive sources of income.

Now they have to actually actively earn that income. I fail to see the problem with this.

Hilti Enaka
Assisted Homicide
#3 - 2017-07-12 20:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilti Enaka
Old Pervert wrote:


I'll just quote the narrative that CCP's marketing department spun about this change to make it plausible.



LOL - you completely forget about one really important thing, the players that make up these large alliances. There is no issue with this passive form of income and everyone expected asteriod belts to provide an additional method to collecting the resource, not an entire overhaul making it into a massive mining operation of which the alliance is still going to make huge amounts of isk from.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2017-07-12 21:04:43 UTC
Old Pervert wrote:
Chicken Little wrote:

The sky is falling!



Ouch....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Ebony Texas
Un4seen Development
Sev3rance
#5 - 2017-07-12 21:05:29 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Old Pervert wrote:


I'll just quote the narrative that CCP's marketing department spun about this change to make it plausible.



LOL - you completely forget about one really important thing, the players that make up these large alliances. There is no issue with this passive form of income and everyone expected asteriod belts to provide an additional method to collecting the resource, not an entire overhaul making it into a massive mining operation of which the alliance is still going to make huge amounts of isk from.



a properly organized alliance with a wing of rorquals will make leaps in productivity when this change comes.. ccp will look at the data (besides the rage fest since not all regions can do this) and decide to nerf it by the following year watch, wait, and see.


Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2017-07-12 21:29:06 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Old Pervert wrote:


I'll just quote the narrative that CCP's marketing department spun about this change to make it plausible.



LOL - you completely forget about one really important thing, the players that make up these large alliances. There is no issue with this passive form of income and everyone expected asteriod belts to provide an additional method to collecting the resource, not an entire overhaul making it into a massive mining operation of which the alliance is still going to make huge amounts of isk from.



I don't think it is the amount of ISK that is the issue, but the passive nature of that ISK. You can earn it with little or no trouble. Only if you have moons in NPC space, LS, or the like would you likely find much in the way of problems. Now with this change, holding those moons is still feasible, but to get the goodies you'll have to put stuff at risk. So...who knows, maybe instead of having to buy in Jita you might get to have some moons of your own. Maybe you and LS locals can form a moon mining consortium of some sort.

So my advice would be, don't throw in the towel quite yet....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2017-07-12 21:56:33 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Old Pervert wrote:


I'll just quote the narrative that CCP's marketing department spun about this change to make it plausible.



LOL - you completely forget about one really important thing, the players that make up these large alliances. There is no issue with this passive form of income and everyone expected asteriod belts to provide an additional method to collecting the resource, not an entire overhaul making it into a massive mining operation of which the alliance is still going to make huge amounts of isk from.



I don't think it is the amount of ISK that is the issue, but the passive nature of that ISK. You can earn it with little or no trouble. Only if you have moons in NPC space, LS, or the like would you likely find much in the way of problems. Now with this change, holding those moons is still feasible, but to get the goodies you'll have to put stuff at risk. So...who knows, maybe instead of having to buy in Jita you might get to have some moons of your own. Maybe you and LS locals can form a moon mining consortium of some sort.

So my advice would be, don't throw in the towel quite yet....


This, exactly this.

The amount of ISK from moons is huge, but that's kind of moot. The fact that all they had to do was haul the goo to a trade hub in order to collect their profit was the problem. Now they get to field people to actually earn the isk. Which is exactly what I initially said.
Scialt
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#8 - 2017-07-13 17:08:11 UTC
I concur that the passive method of earning isk was the big issue that was being addressed with the moon mining changes.

I'll also note that one of the more passive methods of station trading... trading meta modules that can't be created by manufacturers so the supply was limited to drops) is also scheduled for a nerf since those modules will be manufacturable soon (I wonder if the regolith medium shield extender price will plummet).

Research agent income was also nerfed significantly a while back.

To me, the last methods of passive income earning that haven't felt the nerf bat (or aren't scheduled to) are PI and Skill Point Farming.

PI will probably be the next one hit (and will also impact skill point farming indirectly). I expect it to require much more activity in the next year or two in order to get the materials.
Netan MalDoran
Hyperion Mining Incorporated
#9 - 2017-07-13 18:28:18 UTC
Reactions wont change much, they will just be done in a citadel now.

Moon mining however, yeah, not really happy about that as its funding my PvP atm.
Sure, alliances rake in cash hand over fist passively, but they have control of the expensive moons, the cheap ones they dive out to individuals for us to make our own money so that were not the guy in an interceptor during a mach fleet.

While I agree that something needs to be done, I think there should be a way for individual owners to still profit, perhaps have an npc mining fleet for hire at your citadel that takes up a hefty tax for what they mine for you so that theres still room for a player to bid on the job instead.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Hilti Enaka
Assisted Homicide
#10 - 2017-07-14 00:44:30 UTC
Understood with the points.

That said, a lot of this "alliances rake it in" is just, in my opinion, is not an entirely true argument. Players don't by into what they do they buy into why they do it which means if alliances can align players to a common cause and suit and boot them with alliance owned ships etc then shame on them for actually driving content.

Everyone expected moon mining to continue and asteroid belts to spawn if certain raw materials were selling at a price that was deemed unethical.

With all the changes to trying to create less passive isk this sends warning signs to me. Is the company in financial difficulty? The growth story around plex would somewhat give me the impression there is too much in game isk and not enough real money going into the game. I guess only time will tell on this.

Circling back round to moon goo collection I am really disappointed to see this was the best of the best for re imagining t2 production; ie lets impose yet another dull repetitive task into the game.