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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
 

New module: Standup Jump Drive, only for the Upwell Palatine Keepstar

Author
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#1 - 2017-07-01 20:07:03 UTC
The Upwell Palatine Keepstar would require 5 million dollars to buy with PLEX, so I propose adding an exceptional ability to it.
I propose to add a Standup Jump Drive module that would allow the Upwell Palatine Keepstar to jump to any 0.0, lowsec or wormhole system. No limit on distance.

To jump, the keepstar requires a lock onto an active cyno for 5 minutes, after which it jumps.
5 min before the jump and 5 min after the jump, no one can dock or undock.
The jump can happen only inside the vulnerability window and while no one is shooting at it.

No jump fatigue, the keepstar can keep jumping around every 10 min.
Any ship that is tethered during the jump sequence, will follow the keepstar in the jump, except for supercarriers and titans.
Cade Windstalker
#2 - 2017-07-01 20:15:30 UTC
Just no.

Stuff like a Palatine is the very definition of "Cost is not a balance parameter" or, more accurately, "High cost does not justify something being stupidly OP"

This would be stupidly OP in *so* many ways and no price tag justifies something this broken.

The Palatine is a big aspirational goal. A shiny trophy with slightly better stats. That's all it is and that's all it needs to be.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#3 - 2017-07-01 20:18:18 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Just no.

Stuff like a Palatine is the very definition of "Cost is not a balance parameter" or, more accurately, "High cost does not justify something being stupidly OP"

This would be stupidly OP in *so* many ways and no price tag justifies something this broken.

The Palatine is a big aspirational goal. A shiny trophy with slightly better stats. That's all it is and that's all it needs to be.



Care to describe why it would be OP?
This structure costs the equivalent of 5000 titans.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2017-07-01 21:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
And?

An 80 billion ISK Titan costs about 80,000 Tech 1 Frigates.

That doesn't mean a Titan gets to be the end-all-be-all ship of the game.


And being able to go to any system (sans high-sec) in the game with no fatigue or reasonable limitation (5 minute cyno and only within certain time periods is definitely not enough to offset the massive amount of power projection that would come from this idea) is laughably overpowered.
Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
#5 - 2017-07-01 23:49:18 UTC
howls flying Keepstar. I believe there will be trademark infringement with this concept.

Several systems have end game stuff like that but go anywhere is not something that would fit with this size of structure. It is a structure not an infinitely bigger titan. Even Laputa wasn't that big.

Limit it to 4 additional anchorages within K-space with normal cyno restrictions and a 24 hour cool down. This feature would be an additional 30% cost per anchorage point. These anchorage points would be an additional deployed structure on the same invulnerability timer as the Keepstar. This would allow hostile units to locate alternate sites and mobile cyno inhibit the sites during a planned attack.

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.

Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-07-02 00:20:40 UTC
Make it a special cyno anchor that has setup and activation timers and needs fuel on both sides of the jump bridge. Hell, make it an S-Class citadel that way STANDUP can release some S-Sets and make a trio of them for this function: STANDUP S-Set Jump Bridge Array Receiver, STANDUP S-Set Jump Bridge Array Reactor, STANDUP S-Set Cynosural Field Generator; in addition to the STANDUP Palantine XL-Set Jump Bridge Array and an XL-Set Jump Bridge Array Reactor

The Palantine will, after the S-Receiver is powered up and the S-Set Cyno is lit, have to power up its own XL JBA, becoming vulnerable once complete, and then go through a reinforce timer to lock onto the receiver and jump somewhere within a 1AU(?) bubble, all while the S-Class Citadel needs to keep its JBA powered through the reactor.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2017-07-04 00:07:34 UTC
Lol.

Apparently the OP likes the idea of eliminating jump fatigue.
Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
#8 - 2017-07-04 00:16:37 UTC
Also, the OP has 5 mil usd, to blow on internet pixels. Someones funding CCP's next trip to Mexico...with tears.

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.

Cade Windstalker
#9 - 2017-07-04 03:29:00 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
Care to describe why it would be OP?
This structure costs the equivalent of 5000 titans.


Because you've just proposed letting a structure that can fit an entire Titan fleet inside it, with associated smaller ships, plus the weapons and doomsday the structure is already equipped with, jump around the universe like a mobile Deathstar. If you don't understand how this is broken beyond belief then you don't understand the concept of "Cost is not a balance parameter" as it applies to something like this.

Oh and it would let people bring Supers and Titans into Wormholes. That wouldn't be at all OP...

Lets also not forget that last month a certain region of space mined enough minerals for ~100 Titans, and that was just one month and just one region.

If you make something as stupidly OP as this players will find a way to get it, and then they will abuse it into the ground until it's either nerfed or outright removed.

If CCP wanted stupidly OP stuff to just be put beyond a stupidly high cost barrier they never would have nerfed Titans, or they would have put them back in as a new ship with an even bigger cost. They didn't, because they realized that stupidly pricey does not justify stupidly broken.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#10 - 2017-07-04 03:47:48 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:
Care to describe why it would be OP?
This structure costs the equivalent of 5000 titans.


Because you've just proposed letting a structure that can fit an entire Titan fleet inside it, with associated smaller ships, plus the weapons and doomsday the structure is already equipped with, jump around the universe like a mobile Deathstar. If you don't understand how this is broken beyond belief then you don't understand the concept of "Cost is not a balance parameter" as it applies to something like this.

Oh and it would let people bring Supers and Titans into Wormholes. That wouldn't be at all OP...

Lets also not forget that last month a certain region of space mined enough minerals for ~100 Titans, and that was just one month and just one region.

If you make something as stupidly OP as this players will find a way to get it, and then they will abuse it into the ground until it's either nerfed or outright removed.

If CCP wanted stupidly OP stuff to just be put beyond a stupidly high cost barrier they never would have nerfed Titans, or they would have put them back in as a new ship with an even bigger cost. They didn't, because they realized that stupidly pricey does not justify stupidly broken.


Nah I think that it's going to be fine. Just like people find ways to build it, people will find ways to kill it.
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2017-07-05 07:53:30 UTC
That and only one can exist at a time.
Cade Windstalker
#12 - 2017-07-05 13:15:14 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
Nah I think that it's going to be fine. Just like people find ways to build it, people will find ways to kill it.


These two things are in no way equivalent, and "this can be killed" is not the same thing as "this is balanced".

Anyone trumpeting that people should just find a way to deal with something that is blatantly OP is ignorant of how game balance works and should go take remedial classes on the subject.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#13 - 2017-07-07 09:25:30 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Lets also not forget that last month a certain region of space mined enough minerals for ~100 Titans, and that was just one month and just one region.


Considering the structure would require enough minerals for 1700 titans, you would need to mine 17 months in said region. They'd have to mine 1 year and 5 months for just this 1 structure.
The structure would become the target of every alliance in the universe and it would have to be guarded 24/7. Bringing such a structure into enemy territory would be a HUGE risk to take and I don't think that many would have the courage to do it.
Yodik
Dwarfed ORE
#14 - 2017-07-11 07:53:21 UTC
lot of information about palatine keepstar is wrong here, but iam include this idea to list of changes, which will be given to developers.

В любой непонятной ситуации - качай Prospect.

Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
#15 - 2017-07-11 09:35:22 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
Nah I think that it's going to be fine. Just like people find ways to build it, people will find ways to kill it.

I hate to break it to you, but the Upwell Palatine Keepstar is just a bit of a lark by the developers. Something they spent an hour or two on just to give people something to talk about. They know one will never be built, as does the leaders of any large group that considers it and looks at the numbers. The resource requirements are so comically high, and the utility of these things so marginal over a regular Keepstar, no entity will ever build one. No one will find a way to harness the number of player hours required to build one, ever, unless there are massive future game mechanic changes to how resources are spawned into the universe.

A strong clue to this fact is there isn't even a unique model for the thing as it was not worth the art department's time to design one for something no one expects to ever be built. So if you enjoy thinking up fanciful ideas of things for this imaginary space station to do feel free, but don't expect CCP to waste a single minute of developer time implementing them for something that will never see the light of day on Tranquility.
Cade Windstalker
#16 - 2017-07-11 14:08:57 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Lets also not forget that last month a certain region of space mined enough minerals for ~100 Titans, and that was just one month and just one region.


Considering the structure would require enough minerals for 1700 titans, you would need to mine 17 months in said region. They'd have to mine 1 year and 5 months for just this 1 structure.
The structure would become the target of every alliance in the universe and it would have to be guarded 24/7. Bringing such a structure into enemy territory would be a HUGE risk to take and I don't think that many would have the courage to do it.


It's actually more like 1300 Titans, give or take, according to Fuzzworks, but that's kinda beside the point.

The point is that something being stupidly expensive doesn't justify putting a stupidly OP game breaking ability on it.

Also no, it wouldn't be a huge risk, per your own idea it can just jump drive out again. Even if you make it so you can HIC point the thing the Alliance in question can literally afford to sacrifice Titans to break point, never mind something like 100 ECM bursting Scorpions or something equally ridiculous.

So again, no, this is OP and the cost does not justify it.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2017-07-11 20:13:35 UTC
Completely agree.

Pilots would load subcaps, caps, and supercaps in, jump it into the heart of enemy territory, and be able to defend it forever.

We know first-hand how hard it is to kill a citadel. Thousands of players.

Now add to this the fact that they would obviously have an utterly MASSIVE defensive fleet ready to literally just undock from it, tethered, and engage at their own discretion, and it effectively becomes impossible to kill.

The kinds of alliances that can afford this can also afford to throw thousands of capital ships into it.

I've never tried this but I could see it working easily.

A dozen titans, 50 or so supercarriers, 100 or so carriers, and oodles of subcaps. Subcaps include a few hundred sabers bubbling up enemy capitals, so they can't escape.

Titans DD targets, de-aggress, tether up if they're getting shot at, and get repped up.

(Super)carriers and subcaps blap anything that tries to bump the titans off the keepstar (which even without getting shot at would be hard to do given the obscene tether range). Carriers could get blapped pretty fast, but the supers could in theory de-aggress and tether the same as the titans at least some of the time.

Meanwhile the keepstar is annihilating ships left and right.

The attackers would have every advantage, and would be able to apply force anywhere they like. When it's time to leave, they leave, rather than lose their citadel.
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2017-07-11 20:48:45 UTC
Wow, another idea so bad you don't actually come up with a counter idea.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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