These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP has given up on EVE online, Stop giving them your money

Author
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#21 - 2017-07-08 20:00:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
The Devils Cousin wrote:
No they don't, all this whining is just players who have zero patience or want get rich quick crap

The EVE community is probably the most patient community in the entire gaming industry.

  • For over a year people are complaining that citadels are too hard to remove and provide too much safety. Yesterday CCP has finally reacted to the criticism. Knowing from the past how fast CCP works, it will probably take several months until we see some real nerfs.
  • The Rorqual. CCP needed more than 6 months to balance it. Meanwhile mineral market crashed and goons built thousands of capitals.
  • Carrier ratting. Created a huge influx of extra ISK, up to 60 trillion per month. CCP needed 6 months to react.
  • Ghost farming. More than 6 months passed before CCP did somthing against it.
  • The Svipul was overpowered for how long ... like 2 years?
  • ...
Austin Blythe
Doomheim
#22 - 2017-07-08 22:04:42 UTC
MedusaGalactic oO-V-Oo wrote:
Thank God this is an exclusive game club where you actually have to pay


Nope
Pestilen Ratte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2017-07-09 00:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Pestilen Ratte
It isn't really fair to say that CCP have given up on Eve.

No, that wrong. It is totally fair. What has happened is that the majority owners want to cash out their shares, resulting in the firm being on the market. This has had the effect of creating huge job insecurity at the firm. All anyone wants to talk about is what will happen "when" some new firm comes in for a clean acquisition.

There are some things we know about such firms. Firstly, nobody ever gets sacked. No boss ever sacks a person for poor performance when the firm is for sale. There is no point. It is seen by everyone as an appeal to nobody. The current shareholders are jumping ship, why would any manager do something unpleasant to a worker for those guys? So, they don't.

So that means everyone can down tools, and it's cool. Management stop leading and retreat into their elite huddles, swapping important (not) gossip and guessing at the possible aspirations of the "new owners". Low level workers get "promotions" that involve doing their bosses work, but for no extra pay. All across middle management, folks invent special projects that take them out of the daily grind, and into gossip circles. The firm goes into autopilot.

This has absolutely happened in Eve. Nothing new has been done for a very long time, and none of the half baked efforts that were being hailed as the next big thing have come to pass.

But there is the thing: not all companies that are put up for sale get sold. In fact, a lot of companies put on the market by their owners never get sold. They just wither and die. This is because folks generally don't want to sell them if they are healthy and growing, and most everybody with enough money to buy a company of any size can afford a half way decent commercial attorney to tell them this well established truism. It is easy to shark children and young adults from sheltered backgrounds. It is very, very difficult to sell a turd to somebody with a spare 200 million in cash.

Eve is a special case because the owners are clearly a bit "special". They do things a special way (the Iceland Nobleman's Shark Pump?). So, instead of arranging the sale BEFORE talking about it, the owners decided that the thing to do was tell everyone and then search for buyers.

How is that working out for ya, fellas?

Lol

As I have said before, Eve subscription is cheap entertainment for anyone curious about how companies die.

I previously held out hope that some serious games company would buy the firm for the art assets and some of the lore, but now I think the smarter money would simply poach the better staff, and pay artists to recreate a similar aesthetic in another franchise. One with no baggage.

I give CCP six to twelve months to find a buyer, or they are done. After that, I fear it it will be time to switch out the lights, set fire to the tax receipts, and shoot the warehouse cat.
Arcelian
Metentis
#24 - 2017-07-09 11:47:26 UTC
Yet another eve is dying thread. How quaint.
Scath Bererund
The Suicide Kings
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#25 - 2017-07-09 12:41:02 UTC
CCP hasnt given up on eve. The trouble atm is they are doing what they want rather than what players want.

See the citadel cancer
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2017-07-09 13:14:32 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Yet another eve is dying thread. How quaint.

Is somebody updating the ticker?
Keno Skir
#27 - 2017-07-09 15:30:55 UTC
Pestilen Ratte wrote:
It isn't really fair to say that CCP have given up on Eve.

No, that wrong. It is totally fair. What has happened is that the majority owners want to cash out their shares, resulting in the firm being on the market. This has had the effect of creating huge job insecurity at the firm. All anyone wants to talk about is what will happen "when" some new firm comes in for a clean acquisition.

There are some things we know about such firms. Firstly, nobody ever gets sacked. No boss ever sacks a person for poor performance when the firm is for sale. There is no point. It is seen by everyone as an appeal to nobody. The current shareholders are jumping ship, why would any manager do something unpleasant to a worker for those guys? So, they don't.

So that means everyone can down tools, and it's cool. Management stop leading and retreat into their elite huddles, swapping important (not) gossip and guessing at the possible aspirations of the "new owners". Low level workers get "promotions" that involve doing their bosses work, but for no extra pay. All across middle management, folks invent special projects that take them out of the daily grind, and into gossip circles. The firm goes into autopilot.

This has absolutely happened in Eve. Nothing new has been done for a very long time, and none of the half baked efforts that were being hailed as the next big thing have come to pass.

But there is the thing: not all companies that are put up for sale get sold. In fact, a lot of companies put on the market by their owners never get sold. They just wither and die. This is because folks generally don't want to sell them if they are healthy and growing, and most everybody with enough money to buy a company of any size can afford a half way decent commercial attorney to tell them this well established truism. It is easy to shark children and young adults from sheltered backgrounds. It is very, very difficult to sell a turd to somebody with a spare 200 million in cash.

Eve is a special case because the owners are clearly a bit "special". They do things a special way (the Iceland Nobleman's Shark Pump?). So, instead of arranging the sale BEFORE talking about it, the owners decided that the thing to do was tell everyone and then search for buyers.

How is that working out for ya, fellas?

Lol

As I have said before, Eve subscription is cheap entertainment for anyone curious about how companies die.

I previously held out hope that some serious games company would buy the firm for the art assets and some of the lore, but now I think the smarter money would simply poach the better staff, and pay artists to recreate a similar aesthetic in another franchise. One with no baggage.

I give CCP six to twelve months to find a buyer, or they are done. After that, I fear it it will be time to switch out the lights, set fire to the tax receipts, and shoot the warehouse cat.


Didn't CCP actually post record profits last year?
Dsparil
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2017-07-09 15:47:01 UTC
The illegal friendly fire feature and the universal killrights features all need to be rolled back. Do that and it'll make the game fun again. It'll turn it back into a true sandbox. Those two things killed a LOT of the game. That and the refining and reprocessing penalties chased some people away.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#29 - 2017-07-09 16:00:41 UTC
Dsparil wrote:
The illegal friendly fire feature and the universal killrights features all need to be rolled back. Do that and it'll make the game fun again. It'll turn it back into a true sandbox. Those two things killed a LOT of the game. That and the refining and reprocessing penalties chased some people away.
By "the game" you mean high sec. It is not the game, it's a tutorial zone of a game.

Refining penalties= less ore= higher price. At least in theory, overbuffed rorquals and ratting (gun mining) kept the price low, or even made it fall despite the reprocessing nerf. It also takes weeks (or months) to clear old caches and for the price to stabilize. Industry people know it's a very long-term business so those who left would leave anyway or were not true indies.
Pestilen Ratte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2017-07-09 16:08:20 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:


Didn't CCP actually post record profits last year?


I'm not sure. I can't find any good data, anywhere. I saw that the majority owners want to sell, and that usually means revenues and profits are down. Not always, but nearly always.

Then there was the Valkyrie launch. that whole thing was so weird. CCP were partnering with Zuckerberg, but they went directly to capital markets for cash to launch the lead title for the Rift. Presumably he offered them a terrible deal, or no deal at all. But either way, the owners took a risk, betting more than the value of the firm, and it looks like that might have been a success.

I have heard that Valkyrie has done great business, which might explain why the owners of Eve want to cut and run. They may be simply sick and tired of it, and the drain on their best folks, who now want to do other things in the VR space. But that doesn't explain why they would not firewall Eve, and leave it to turn a steady profit under its own, distinct leadership.

I have this hobby, trying to work out what CCP are worth. Games companies are notoriously hard to value. They have IP assets that might be worth billions, or they might be worth nothing at all. Worse, fashion and short lived trends dominate the games industry and what is hot today could be a waste of money tomorrow.

I know CCP have large overheads for staff costs, compared to most gaming companies with only a few existing titles. They probably get significant government support for salaries, being a European "private company", so it is hard to know what percentage of their staff overheads are real costs, and what percentage is state participation. That is always kept secret, because obviously those funds don't travel with the IP to new jurisdictions (or even to new families within the same jurisdiction).

The fact that CCP have significant cash revenues and yet can't sell themselves hints to me that their books are closed. This is usually due to political support for the owners.

I have also heard that CCP have a messy and complex ownership structure, and that may be why potential buyers have stayed away.

In any case, it is a fascinating company, with lots of good things to recommend it, especially the artists, and we would all be pleased to see it under new, focused management, rather than being kept on life support while a buyer is found.

If i were advising the owners, I would be focused on Sony and the other cash rich, innovation poor mega corps in the gaming industry. Whatever it takes to get the books and policies ISO enough for that set, just bite the rope and get it done.

There is so much equity looking for a home just now, it is shameful CCP can't sell Eve. All they need to do is tell a few folks to shut up, a few others to pull up there pants and stop dribbling, and it would be a done deal already.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#31 - 2017-07-09 16:34:42 UTC
I hope it doesn't get sold, despite people rumbling how CCP is "killing the game" with each patch, it still survived 14 years of "dying".
EA would kill it in 2.
(old) Blizzard would keep it alive for a couple of years but the current team would screw it up harder than Cain got screwed up by a pink butterfly in D3.
Sony would turn it into a console game with dumbed down mechanics (and release even more dumbed down EvE 2 next year)...
And so on.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#32 - 2017-07-09 18:15:49 UTC
Dsparil wrote:
The illegal friendly fire feature and the universal killrights features all need to be rolled back. Do that and it'll make the game fun again. It'll turn it back into a true sandbox. Those two things killed a LOT of the game. That and the refining and reprocessing penalties chased some people away.

What. I didnt even notice these changes.
Crash 888
TRINTEX
#33 - 2017-07-09 18:40:30 UTC
Forum warriors have given up on Eve-O. Sentiments such as these should have triggered a threadnought with at least double digit pages by now, even without customary 800 tippia posts. 2 pages over 2 days is very disappointing.

It's like when the canary in the mine stops chirping.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#34 - 2017-07-09 19:05:22 UTC
Valdr Auduin wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Yet another eve is dying thread. How quaint.

Is somebody updating the ticker?


We're running out of space on the chalk board where we've been keeping a tally. At this rate, we'll need another one...and more chalk while we're at it.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2017-07-09 20:46:54 UTC
To be fair it`s not only ccp fault. its the new way of playing that kills the game or better say it`s bleeding to death. Slowly. What ccp is trying to do is stop it.
Kosoku
3Ra Syndicate
#36 - 2017-07-09 22:25:22 UTC
I am an alt but not quite sure this is really an alt. It's not hard to track down my main. All you need to do is look at founder of my one-man corp. I haven't logged in my so-called main for a loooong time.

I've played in Eve beta and started playing 4 days after official launch. (Box took 4 days to arrive)

During the most active moment, I had 4 accounts. Right now, I just have this one active. From my 14 or so years of playing, I do think Eve is drying out, not dying out. But I like the less population since I can find quieter systems.

Anyway, I liked Null far more when there was no sov mechanics. I think CCP refined the game too much that some parts aren't just fun anymore.
Raffael Ramirez
Alcohol Fuelled
#37 - 2017-07-10 01:29:35 UTC
Without CCP releasing any sub numbers its hard to tell what is going on, fact is all my friends I played with over the past years since launch have left the game - maybe it just a sub population of older players that just loose interest in the game who knows.

From looking through the upcoming features I can say that there is nothing there of any substance addressing the many flaws that leads to stagnation , null , empire wherever.

I am not sure if CCP wants to sell or if it is more difficult than we can imagine to handle the ancient code in a way that brings meaningful gameplay back into this "really not so sandboxy" sandbox or if it is indeed resignation.

In any case I agree that this game has become unnecessarily complicated - sov mechanics are one example or fitting mechanics or constant ship re-balancing that makes 50 % of the ships in-game unusable 10% OP and the rest are sub optimal but flyable. It seems that there is no real plan that drives all the patches and re-balancing and that they are only reacting to whatever enters their perception.

In all honesty I am not obsessed with eve anymore - I like to play it sometimes and will continue to support CCP as I have already invested too much in this game.Although I am really not happy with the way things are going! I am pretty sure the next iteration of EVE will be without me as CCP is clearly not trustworthy enough to invest long term.

In my opinion they have broken ALL promises and are traitors to their own vision of EVE - see f2p/p2w/skill injectors/PLEX.


Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2017-07-10 07:59:30 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
To be fair it`s not only ccp fault. its the new way of playing that kills the game or better say it`s bleeding to death. Slowly. What ccp is trying to do is stop it.

There needs to be an advantage to playing suboptimally and not mono-speccing your damage profile. Personal opinion.
Keno Skir
#39 - 2017-07-10 11:38:17 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
there's just way too many things to list and I've got much better things to do with my time.


Are you trying to suggest you do other things, than posting on the official EvE forums?

Pull the other one Lol
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#40 - 2017-07-10 16:21:22 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Didn't CCP actually post record profits last year?
Indeed they did, to the tune of around a 30% increase in revenue.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-02-23-mine-asteroids-build-space-stations-this-is-the-purpose-of-life

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack