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why so low dps?

Author
Katarr Ne'asirr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-07-04 11:43:48 UTC
so ive been simulating ships and according to my simulation with t1 dual beam lasers with standard faction ammo a apocalypse navy issue with 8 turrents does.....arround 150 dps....
how on earth its so low? i know i have just large turrets on lev 3 so i checked on EFT and it went to....160 dps. How on earth a battleship does lower damage then a frigate?
Nerdz Rool
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2017-07-04 11:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerdz Rool
Few things to keep in mind:

- Dual Beam Lasers are the "lightest" weapon of the 3 available in large beam laser category.
From low to high: Dual Beam, Mega Beam and last Tachyon Beam.

- Faction Standard crystals only have a combined damage of 35,2. Compared to Multifreq. which has 52,8 it is substantially lower.

Beams have low damage overall. What I used to do is get T2 Pulses and use the T2 long range crystals for that, which does quite alot of DPS. ALso you can try to fit damage modifiers in the low slots, for energy weapons that would be Heat Sinks.

If you have more questions regarding this matter please feel free to reply or send me a evemail.

edit:

Also by using T2 Tachyons with Faction UV crystals and 3 T2 Heat Sinks DPS goes up to 488 for me, with an 80k optimal.
By using T2 Mega Pulse with Scorch crystals and 3 T2 Heat Sinks DPS went up to 574 DPS with a 60k optimal.

Do keep in mind though that my Gunnery skills are near max, and it takes a while to get there (or alot of ISK).
Katarr Ne'asirr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2017-07-04 12:38:31 UTC
Nerdz Rool wrote:
Few things to keep in mind:

- Dual Beam Lasers are the "lightest" weapon of the 3 available in large beam laser category.
From low to high: Dual Beam, Mega Beam and last Tachyon Beam.

- Faction Standard crystals only have a combined damage of 35,2. Compared to Multifreq. which has 52,8 it is substantially lower.

Beams have low damage overall. What I used to do is get T2 Pulses and use the T2 long range crystals for that, which does quite alot of DPS. ALso you can try to fit damage modifiers in the low slots, for energy weapons that would be Heat Sinks.

If you have more questions regarding this matter please feel free to reply or send me a evemail.

edit:

Also by using T2 Tachyons with Faction UV crystals and 3 T2 Heat Sinks DPS goes up to 488 for me, with an 80k optimal.
By using T2 Mega Pulse with Scorch crystals and 3 T2 Heat Sinks DPS went up to 574 DPS with a 60k optimal.

Do keep in mind though that my Gunnery skills are near max, and it takes a while to get there (or alot of ISK).


That changes one thing. Now the question is "How on earth a battleship does lower damage then a cruiser?
Nerdz Rool
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2017-07-04 12:46:59 UTC
Could have a few reasons:

- Lower (support)skills for BS-class weapons
- Navy Apoc doesnt have any damage bonuses, so it is only lower paper DPS.

You really need to compare apples to apples to find out why one this has higher DPS than the other. Because I could also say why does a cruiser have worse damage application at 60k+ than a BS :)
Kosoku
3Ra Syndicate
#5 - 2017-07-04 12:49:49 UTC
Ship signature size plus speed vs turret signature size.

And then there is optimal range and fall off. If a cruiser is in fall off and moving in high speed, you are going to do far less damage.
Katarr Ne'asirr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2017-07-04 13:34:07 UTC
allright.
So. Question is: which apple does high damage at long range.
Restriction: Amarr class ship or semi(priate).
Nerdz Rool
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2017-07-04 13:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerdz Rool
That really depends what ranges we are talking about:

A Nightmare can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS. (Tachyons+Gleam)
A Paladin can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Tachyons+Bastion+Gleam)
A Paladin can get [email protected] With 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Mega Pulse+Bastion+Scorch)

or

A Apoc Navy Issue can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Mega Pulse+Scorch+2 T2 TC)

This does use max skills for calculations though, your own numbers may vary.

Long range has the advantage that you can almost completely skimp down on the tank (use at own peril) but it does require more SP to be effective.

edit: does not include drones
Katarr Ne'asirr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-07-04 14:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarr Ne'asirr
Nerdz Rool wrote:
That really depends what ranges we are talking about:

A Nightmare can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS. (Tachyons+Gleam)
A Paladin can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Tachyons+Bastion+Gleam)
A Paladin can get [email protected] With 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Mega Pulse+Bastion+Scorch)

or

A Apoc Navy Issue can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Mega Pulse+Scorch+2 T2 TC)

This does use max skills for calculations though, your own numbers may vary.

Long range has the advantage that you can almost completely skimp down on the tank (use at own peril) but it does require more SP to be effective.

edit: does not include drones


question
is there a ship that can stand the damage output of signatures rats in null sec?

p.s what does IN HS mean?
Kosoku
3Ra Syndicate
#9 - 2017-07-04 14:29:58 UTC
The answers you are looking for are in game. You just need to browse through ships and guns and then do some simple math.
Katarr Ne'asirr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-07-04 14:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarr Ne'asirr
Kosoku wrote:
The answers you are looking for are in game. You just need to browse through ships and guns and then do some simple math.


I never rated before and rats modules are random. I dont have possibility for doing it. Only someone that does might know the awnser.
Nerdz Rool
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2017-07-04 15:20:31 UTC
Katarr Ne'asirr wrote:
Nerdz Rool wrote:
That really depends what ranges we are talking about:

A Nightmare can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS. (Tachyons+Gleam)
A Paladin can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Tachyons+Bastion+Gleam)
A Paladin can get [email protected] With 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Mega Pulse+Bastion+Scorch)

or

A Apoc Navy Issue can get [email protected] with 2 IN HS and 1 T2 HS (Mega Pulse+Scorch+2 T2 TC)

This does use max skills for calculations though, your own numbers may vary.

Long range has the advantage that you can almost completely skimp down on the tank (use at own peril) but it does require more SP to be effective.

edit: does not include drones


question
is there a ship that can stand the damage output of signatures rats in null sec?

p.s what does IN HS mean?


Paladin can withstand an enormous beating, but I play it with Pulse lasers and right on top of the enemy. You do need to be careful of clicking the bastion module in null though, just saying.
For everything else: range is your friend.

Also IN HS: Imperial Navy Heat Sink. Faction version of the regular or T2 Heat Sink :)

Also there may or may not be better ships to do some nullsec ratting, but that heavily depends on your current skillset and the place you are going to fight the rats.
Nerdz Rool
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2017-07-04 15:21:25 UTC
Katarr Ne'asirr wrote:
Kosoku wrote:
The answers you are looking for are in game. You just need to browse through ships and guns and then do some simple math.


I never rated before and rats modules are random. I dont have possibility for doing it. Only someone that does might know the awnser.


As I said I am more than willing to provide more assistance than everything im typing here. Just let me know if you have any more questions, we'll get them sorted.
Katarr Ne'asirr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2017-07-04 16:31:58 UTC
Nerdz Rool wrote:
Katarr Ne'asirr wrote:
Kosoku wrote:
The answers you are looking for are in game. You just need to browse through ships and guns and then do some simple math.


I never rated before and rats modules are random. I dont have possibility for doing it. Only someone that does might know the awnser.


As I said I am more than willing to provide more assistance than everything im typing here. Just let me know if you have any more questions, we'll get them sorted.


in other words a paladin with pulse lasers would stand for instance a blood haven
for instance with 2 deadspace armor repairers
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2017-07-04 16:36:02 UTC
Katarr Ne'asirr wrote:
Nerdz Rool wrote:
Katarr Ne'asirr wrote:
Kosoku wrote:
The answers you are looking for are in game. You just need to browse through ships and guns and then do some simple math.


I never rated before and rats modules are random. I dont have possibility for doing it. Only someone that does might know the awnser.


As I said I am more than willing to provide more assistance than everything im typing here. Just let me know if you have any more questions, we'll get them sorted.


in other words a paladin with pulse lasers would stand for instance a blood haven
for instance with 2 deadspace armor repairers


That would be dramatic overkill on tank. A single T2 rep would suffice.
Nerdz Rool
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2017-07-04 18:28:28 UTC
Personally I use a deadspace medium repper