These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Pirate ship idea.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#1 - 2017-07-04 06:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius NoVegas
Idea for a pirate faction ship around the concentration of being self sufficient at salvaging combat sites. Rough draft concept around the idea that its basically gona keep the big ships at bay with ECM while it picks off the smaller ships first then works its way up. all while the salvage drones do there thing.

Figured this concept would also have a smaller role in fleet being a semi-EWAR design.

Frigate:
Minmatar Bonus
15% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket damage
Caldari Bonus
7.5% bonus to Shield Booster Amount
Role Bonus
75% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket explosion velocity
50% bonus to salvage drone access difficulty
37.5% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength

Cruiser:
Minmatar Bonus
12.5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile explosion velocity
Caldari Bonus
7.5% bonus to Shield Booster Amount
Role Bonus
50% bonus to salvage drone access difficulty
37.5% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength

Battleship:
Minmatar Bonus
7.5% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity
Caldari Bonus
7.5% bonus to Shield Booster Amount
Role Bonus
75% bonus to salvage drone access difficulty
50% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength
GROUND XERO
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#2 - 2017-07-04 08:11:06 UTC
we don´t need extra ecm boats ....

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-07-04 13:02:06 UTC
GROUND XERO wrote:
we don´t need extra ecm boats ....

Just volunteered to be ECM'd first.

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2017-07-04 15:22:46 UTC
What you're looking for is the Rook (sans salvaging, but what kind of combat ship would waste trait space on salvaging?)

It doesn't work very well, btw, especially in the circumstances you are describing.
Cade Windstalker
#5 - 2017-07-04 15:37:11 UTC
First off you don't have enough bonuses.

Second off the concept you're going for is inherently flawed. ECM is a lousy way to reduce DPS in most sites, and EWar in general isn't a good substitute for more DPS, tank, or both in most cases.

You'd be far better off just getting a Gila, Rattlesnake, or Marauder for what you're going for here, especially the Marauder since it has extra highs for Salvagers and can actually tank the sites.
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#6 - 2017-07-04 21:22:32 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
First off you don't have enough bonuses.

Second off the concept you're going for is inherently flawed. ECM is a lousy way to reduce DPS in most sites, and EWar in general isn't a good substitute for more DPS, tank, or both in most cases.

You'd be far better off just getting a Gila, Rattlesnake, or Marauder for what you're going for here, especially the Marauder since it has extra highs for Salvagers and can actually tank the sites.


i thought of that but i was looking for something that isnt limited by its size. e.i. the Murader is a large hull so it cant enter certain small and medium sites. The best solution i thought of would have to be multi-hull concept so a pirate faction ship like would be a natural fit. thanks for the advice though. what would you suggest instead of a ECM bonus? shield boosters? what other Bonus's would make it a decent fit?
GROUND XERO
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#7 - 2017-07-05 06:46:42 UTC
Axure Abbacus wrote:
GROUND XERO wrote:
we don´t need extra ecm boats ....

Just volunteered to be ECM'd first.

Cry

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
radkid10
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-07-05 11:58:17 UTC
I agree with everybody here no more electronic warfare ships they're already a pain in the ass as it is with the ones we have to deal with we don't need anymore but I do think there should be a counter for Fleet boosting other words a module you can use to Target a boosting ship and break their boost
Cade Windstalker
#9 - 2017-07-05 13:13:15 UTC
Tiberius NoVegas wrote:
i thought of that but i was looking for something that isnt limited by its size. e.i. the Murader is a large hull so it cant enter certain small and medium sites. The best solution i thought of would have to be multi-hull concept so a pirate faction ship like would be a natural fit. thanks for the advice though. what would you suggest instead of a ECM bonus? shield boosters? what other Bonus's would make it a decent fit?


That's why I posted more than one hull suggestion.

Like I said, the whole concept you're going for here doesn't work well. ECM specifically and really EWar in general, isn't a good way of reducing site DPS.

Generally the ideal solo mission/PvE ship will have some kind of damage bonus and some kind of local repair or resist bonus. That's why ships like the Marauders, Rattlesnake, and Gila tend to be rated so highly. For Frigates there's a bit more variation because high end Frigates tend to tank the relatively poor tracking of mission and site rats very well, and for places with heavy webbing there are ships like the Worm that can generally local tank well enough to survive anyway.

Really we don't need another PvE focused line of hulls IMO. There are enough options for that, and likely as not any damage focused Pirate hull with the right damage type will end up being used somewhere in PvE. For example the Mach and Nightmare see a lot of use as mission ships despite having no particularly PvE focused bonuses.
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#10 - 2017-07-06 10:34:19 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Tiberius NoVegas wrote:
i thought of that but i was looking for something that isnt limited by its size. e.i. the Murader is a large hull so it cant enter certain small and medium sites. The best solution i thought of would have to be multi-hull concept so a pirate faction ship like would be a natural fit. thanks for the advice though. what would you suggest instead of a ECM bonus? shield boosters? what other Bonus's would make it a decent fit?


That's why I posted more than one hull suggestion.

Like I said, the whole concept you're going for here doesn't work well. ECM specifically and really EWar in general, isn't a good way of reducing site DPS.

Generally the ideal solo mission/PvE ship will have some kind of damage bonus and some kind of local repair or resist bonus. That's why ships like the Marauders, Rattlesnake, and Gila tend to be rated so highly. For Frigates there's a bit more variation because high end Frigates tend to tank the relatively poor tracking of mission and site rats very well, and for places with heavy webbing there are ships like the Worm that can generally local tank well enough to survive anyway.

Really we don't need another PvE focused line of hulls IMO. There are enough options for that, and likely as not any damage focused Pirate hull with the right damage type will end up being used somewhere in PvE. For example the Mach and Nightmare see a lot of use as mission ships despite having no particularly PvE focused bonuses.


SO thinking about what you said it would make sense to give a shield boost bonus...this line up does good at PVE and i believe it will also do well against any smaller size hulls. example being the cruiser would be good at hunting down small hulls while the battleship will be good at hunting down medium size hulls. I see this having the potential of dominating smaller size ships out with this design. possible balance issue as i wouldnt know how to keep it in check.
Cade Windstalker
#11 - 2017-07-06 14:13:30 UTC
Tiberius NoVegas wrote:
SO thinking about what you said it would make sense to give a shield boost bonus...this line up does good at PVE and i believe it will also do well against any smaller size hulls. example being the cruiser would be good at hunting down small hulls while the battleship will be good at hunting down medium size hulls. I see this having the potential of dominating smaller size ships out with this design. possible balance issue as i wouldnt know how to keep it in check.


There's no reason a Battleship would be good at killing smaller ships unless you did something silly like give it a bonus to Medium guns or a ridiculous tracking bonus.

The exception is, sort of, RLML and RHML ships right now, and even those aren't that good against swarms because of the long reload.

As I've already said though, this doesn't require a new hull. The entire Guristas' line has tank and damage bonuses and do quite well in PvE of all sorts. The other pirate Battleships don't do badly either because while they lack tank bonuses they have enough DPS that they can generally mitigate incoming damage faster than they die, which gets DPS down to a manageable level in short order.

AFs and HACs are also quite good at PvE for Small and Medium sized hulls, and Marauders are excellent at Battleship scale PvE.

You have plenty of options here. If you need more suggestions I can start linking fits too.
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#12 - 2017-07-06 21:19:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius NoVegas
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Tiberius NoVegas wrote:
SO thinking about what you said it would make sense to give a shield boost bonus...this line up does good at PVE and i believe it will also do well against any smaller size hulls. example being the cruiser would be good at hunting down small hulls while the battleship will be good at hunting down medium size hulls. I see this having the potential of dominating smaller size ships out with this design. possible balance issue as i wouldnt know how to keep it in check.


There's no reason a Battleship would be good at killing smaller ships unless you did something silly like give it a bonus to Medium guns or a ridiculous tracking bonus.

The exception is, sort of, RLML and RHML ships right now, and even those aren't that good against swarms because of the long reload.

As I've already said though, this doesn't require a new hull. The entire Guristas' line has tank and damage bonuses and do quite well in PvE of all sorts. The other pirate Battleships don't do badly either because while they lack tank bonuses they have enough DPS that they can generally mitigate incoming damage faster than they die, which gets DPS down to a manageable level in short order.

AFs and HACs are also quite good at PvE for Small and Medium sized hulls, and Marauders are excellent at Battleship scale PvE.

You have plenty of options here. If you need more suggestions I can start linking fits too.


Its not just about doing killing rats for me. its about optimizing salvaging and all site levels. there are currently options at all size hulls but not all the options meet the criteria to optimize salvage capabilities. I understand to make it a viable ship design it will also need a PVP role. The ship design i have now come to has good tank and with the explosion velocity bonus's a lot of these missles will hit smaller ships like the next lower class missile. this is where i think it becomes a bit iffy if these hulls will end up becoming PVP killers for the next size smaller hull.

so what im tryig to say overall is yes there are current options but none of the options fit to optimize salvage capabilities while clearing sites solo. Under the current options i feel im wasting too much time between sites just on salvaging and in larger sites it can take considerably longer to clear and salvage the site solo. i only see options here and thats a drone boat with salvager bonus or a gun/missile boat with salvage drone bonus. i think its safe to say no one wants to see more drone boats as theres already many options in that area.

The one hull im not sure how to balance is the small. Not sure if i should go damage bonus or explosion velocity bonus or both. Explosion velocity will only give it and edge vs drones and fast ships. Both mute points as this role is already filled by other ships or isnt needed. Damage bonus doesnt seem to give it any real edge compared to any other missile frigate...
Cade Windstalker
#13 - 2017-07-07 00:28:23 UTC
Tiberius NoVegas wrote:
Its not just about doing killing rats for me. its about optimizing salvaging and all site levels. there are currently options at all size hulls but not all the options meet the criteria to optimize salvage capabilities. I understand to make it a viable ship design it will also need a PVP role. The ship design i have now come to has good tank and with the explosion velocity bonus's a lot of these missles will hit smaller ships like the next lower class missile. this is where i think it becomes a bit iffy if these hulls will end up becoming PVP killers for the next size smaller hull.

so what im tryig to say overall is yes there are current options but none of the options fit to optimize salvage capabilities while clearing sites solo. Under the current options i feel im wasting too much time between sites just on salvaging and in larger sites it can take considerably longer to clear and salvage the site solo. i only see options here and thats a drone boat with salvager bonus or a gun/missile boat with salvage drone bonus. i think its safe to say no one wants to see more drone boats as theres already many options in that area.

The one hull im not sure how to balance is the small. Not sure if i should go damage bonus or explosion velocity bonus or both. Explosion velocity will only give it and edge vs drones and fast ships. Both mute points as this role is already filled by other ships or isnt needed. Damage bonus doesnt seem to give it any real edge compared to any other missile frigate...


First off, let me assure you that unless you've put some absolutely ridiculous bonus to Explosion Velocity and Explosion Radius you aren't going to be nuking Cruisers with Torps or Frigates with Heavy Missiles. For one that's not how the damage application formula works, and for two you're never going to do better with those missiles than Rapid Lights or Rapid Heavies do now, at least for burst damage.

Second, the answer to salvaging Frigate and Cruiser level content is "don't".

It's not worth it to salvage sites full of small wrecks because they drop much less salvage for roughly the same time investment. For scan sites and anomalies outside of Wormholes it's generally only worthwhile if you use an alt or if there's a faction rat that can drop T2 salvage.

Also there's supposed to be some tradeoff for being able to both fight and salvage efficiently. Even the Marauders don't do quite as much raw DPS as Pirate Battleships as a balancing factor for their above average utility and tank.

What I'm saying here is that smaller salvage plus combat ship isn't a niche that needs filling here. If you really need that on a Cruiser the new T3s will likely fit the bill pretty well for you. For Frigates I wouldn't even bother. One salvager 2 for Faction wrecks will do you fine.