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BC's more than just a problem with drakes and canes.

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monkfish1234
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2011-09-17 02:56:45 UTC
alright not gonna ramble on about how i think things should be fixed exactly cos that's pointless. that said, please can someone take a proper look at BC's from how i see it there are 2 pretty major issues.

1) the day teir 2 bc's were released teir 1 had no purpose. they offer nothing that teir 2 doesnt do better. so either work on balancing them as 8 roughly equal combat ships giving each race an option of 2 fighting styles (using bonus' etc)

2) teir 2 bc's still aren't even nearly balanced after 3/4 years? can't remember how long now.. this pretty much falls into the first point as well but even if teir 1 isn't given some purpose drakes and hurricanes are badly in need of a proper rebalance.

tbh i'd like to see the same done with BS along with a so description of buffing/fixing to make them the goto ships for larger scale combat rather than the drake army situation atm.

well anyway that's my thoughts..

monk.

P.S. a boost to blaster trackign wouldnt go a miss. but that's been in demand for years now so i'll keep flying ac's on everything for now. :s
Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#2 - 2011-09-17 03:18:06 UTC
umm, t1 bc's are cheap "throwaway " fun pvp boats. They are in fact the part of the triad needed by most any pvp crew to be considered passable. Other 2 are inty and BS.

And the stats of t2 not that great over t1. The deeps there to kill a drake, NH is going down for example.


Drake train was a player fad as well. One that was't always in game. I flew before the train. Some fleets I flew up in the drake and was asked if I flew anyhting better in fact. Then a smart ass would go oh wait, he's caldari....nope lol.

Fotm and op ships are linked. More of them flying, more they get op. If out the blue pl or other innovators rolled myrm fleets and devised tactics that kicked ass for em....months late it be because of myrm. this how drake train started in fact. It was a major 0.0 crew who one day whipped out mega drake fleets. Before that point....it was jsut plain ole drake. Nothng special. hated for lack of guns, hated for being a slow turd even nano-d on nano bc roams. But hey it tanked nice. Many times in the sea of harbs and canes....a drake pilot was asked "feel like being bait today". Before drake train....this was thier main role it seemed.


monkfish1234
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2011-09-17 03:37:44 UTC
ok you need to be more careful about how you read what I have said. i am talking about teir's not tech levels. all tech 2 bc's have well defined roles and are reasonably balanced. (damnnation could do with a little help, a ship that's main skill is getting shot is a bit suspect)

drake > ferox
hurricane > cyclone
harbinger > phrophecy
myrmidon > brutix

galentte probably have the closes to 2 viable bc. but if you turn up to a fleet in a ferox or prophecy you will be laughed at.

I agree they are cheap fun ship, but a cheap ship should not be the ship of choice for any fleet other than super caps (not going to get into the issues of SC they are well documented already) .

unfortunately there isn't anywhere to easily get the data to show most used ships atm, but i'm pretty sure you will see cane, drake, abaddon. top 3 by a considerable distance (talking pvp only) and even it is a fotm thing game balancing should not allow for a fleet consisting of 90%-100% 1 ship type be better than a fleet than is organised but has a variety of ships across it's fleet. (recons etc)

right now the system is broken. the problem has become a complex one. but it is something needs to be addressed.

monk
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#4 - 2011-09-17 07:25:34 UTC
That you can get a Cyclone for 16 Million ISK or even less and, if you can fit it right and have the skills, really kick the ass with it.

Cheap fun.

Just be glad we have a game to play.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#5 - 2011-09-17 09:02:12 UTC
So your thread has nothing to with BC at all, but is merely a "boost blaster" plea? Big smile

Only the Amarr and Caldari tier 1's were really made obsolete by their bigger brothers, the Brutix and Cyclone still see loads of action .. former less than the latter due to hybrid issues.

Tier 2's are pretty well balanced on the whole, only the Myrmidon stands out as sub-par for larger romps where range/speed/EHP trumps versatility .. pretty damn nasty solo or in small gangs though.

Hurricanes are swarming due to CCP's ignorance when they boosted projectiles with nary a thought of the ships they would be used on .. goes for just about all the minnie projectile ships.
The guns are so good that a Harbinger is better with autos than lasers against anything with high'ish EM/Therm ratings .. freaks me out to no end.
Drakes are Drakes and their power resides in the insane versatility/range of guided missiles .. hopefully they will be sorted when missiles get their turn on the chopping block sometime down the road.
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
#6 - 2011-09-18 21:47:08 UTC
I am not sure if I got the initial posting correct, but I try to answer:

Obviously some BCs are very popular due to their extremely well working aspect they have been designed for, i.e. a Drake can take insane DPS while a Hurricane can deal insane amounts. However thats only one side of the mirror and I think that is the big issue with most people: a high-tank Drake doesn't do any damage and a high DPS Hurricane doesn't tank at all. That said you just need to fit your ship according to enemies weakness and you'll win the fight.

Bring a standard Hurricane and I kill you with a Cyclone, bring a heavy tank Drake and I... well probably just leave you alone because you do no harm anyway. Blink I don't need officer fitting or all-5 skills, it is just a matter of what you put on a ship. And this is I think one of the major issues in pvp: the lack of creativity when fitting the ship.

Some ideas: take a Blackbird and negate the entire damage of 3 Hurricanes. Take an Arbitrator and orbit the Hurricane at 1km while pointing the tracking-disrupter on it (sing your favorite Amar song while doing so for maximum effect). Take a Myrmidon and fit it for passive shield tank and go afk while your drones kill the Hurricane.
Booliemantin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-25 12:43:37 UTC
Acctully, Ferox's are good for pvp if fitted with blasters, the only problem is they dont ahve a web/point therefore you need a dedicated tackler, A Blaster Ferox can Beat a HAM Drake if the pilot knows what he is doing
Booliemantin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-25 12:43:47 UTC
Acctully, Ferox's are good for pvp if fitted with blasters, the only problem is they dont ahve a web/point therefore you need a dedicated tackler, A Blaster Ferox can Beat a HAM Drake if the pilot knows what he is doing
Schnoo
The Schnoo
#9 - 2011-10-25 13:27:47 UTC
And prophecy is without doubt just worse than harbinger, it doesn't offer a different play style and is usually used as bait boat only; it's like pvping in a maller/augoror.
Tyme Xandr
Weyl Manufacturing
#10 - 2011-10-25 22:48:23 UTC
monkfish1234 wrote:
ok you need to be more careful about how you read what I have said. i am talking about teir's not tech levels. all tech 2 bc's have well defined roles and are reasonably balanced. (damnnation could do with a little help, a ship that's main skill is getting shot is a bit suspect)


She was talking tier not tech. She was using lowercase t to signify tier instead of the uppercase T signifying tech.

You should reread her post now that this has been explained to you, it makes a lot more sense now.
Tyme Xandr
Weyl Manufacturing
#11 - 2011-10-25 22:48:54 UTC
Not that I was saying i agreed with her, btw. I agree that the tier one BC's are garbage and need some boosts.