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Stacking penalty with only one module in the Simulation?
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MatteMatto
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2017-06-12 03:31:35 UTC
Hi guys,

I might be completely wrong here so please correct me if I am as i still dont know much about this game but from what ive read stacking penalties should only occur after the second module is added. As it happens i was in simulation mode with my astero which has a base Thermal Shield res of 20% and when adding a lvl 1 thermal rig(30% res increase theoretically) in the simulation it goes up to 45%, this seemed odd that i was getting a stacking penalty so i removed all fitting from the astero and tried again with still the same result, is the ship considered the first module or do i not get what im up too?

the way i read it, I should be getting a full 30% increase by adding that 1 module to a blank ship

Help would be appreciated

thanks
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-06-12 04:25:30 UTC
Caterpil
Amanina Avada Corporation
#3 - 2017-06-12 10:25:48 UTC
Resistances work slightly differently from most other stats, since you can't ever get 100% resistances.

When it says 30% resistance, it means you get 30% of the difference between 100% and your current resistance.

e.g.
If you had 0% resistance, then you get the straight 30% added to you resistance.

In your example you started with 20% resistance. The difference between 20% and 100% is 80%.

(80/100)*30 = 24% is the amount of resistance you will gain.

24% + 20% = 44% is your new resistance value.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2017-06-13 04:13:45 UTC
^^^ What he said


Modules give a percentage to what's left unprotected.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2017-06-13 19:40:30 UTC
This gets interesting when stacking penalties finally do come in to play.

Let's say you have a base resist of 20% and two hardeners that give 50% each. The first one looks at the 80% hole (1-.2 base) and gives you half of that (.4) then adds to the base for a total of 60% resist. The next one then looks at the gap (1-.6 = .4) and gives you .5 * .87 = .435 of that due to stacking penalties, so .435*.4 = .174. That gets added to your current resist for a total of 77.4%.
MatteMatto
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-06-14 01:56:31 UTC
Thanks everyone, as i thought my bad
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2017-06-14 14:27:43 UTC
Caterpil wrote:
Resistances work slightly differently from most other stats, since you can't ever get 100% resistances.

When it says 30% resistance, it means you get 30% of the difference between 100% and your current resistance.

This is simply not true.
Because it is open in the fit tool we will go with a Golem and to remove skills we will go with a character that has no skills to simplify this.
Base shield resists are 0% (zero), using a T2 EM Ward Amplfier (37.5%) boost to EM resistances and following your post above we should come out with a resistance 62.5%, yet the fit tool tells us that it is 37.5%. Why?
Because the first resistance module (or rig) that you add to a ship will always give you 100% of its value.

To confirm this let us look at an Ishtar again with a pilot that has no skills.
Base armor resistance to EM damage is 50%.
The T2 EM Armor hardener gives us a 55% boost to resistance.
Since this is the first resistance mod we get the full 100% effect or
50% plus the 55% boost from the hardener and we get 77.5%.

This last example brings out the possible source for Caterpil's confusion. In a case where base resists are 50% the idea as proposed by Caterpil would get us to the same place so let us follow his math.
100 - 50 = 50
50 + 55% = 77.5.

However if we change the base resist to say 30% then his math goes wrong.
100 - 30 = 70.
70 + 55% = 108.55%.
The real math would get
30 + 55% = 46.5%
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#8 - 2017-06-19 16:55:25 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Caterpil wrote:
Resistances work slightly differently from most other stats, since you can't ever get 100% resistances.

When it says 30% resistance, it means you get 30% of the difference between 100% and your current resistance.

This is simply not true.
Because it is open in the fit tool we will go with a Golem and to remove skills we will go with a character that has no skills to simplify this.
Base shield resists are 0% (zero), using a T2 EM Ward Amplfier (37.5%) boost to EM resistances and following your post above we should come out with a resistance 62.5%, yet the fit tool tells us that it is 37.5%. Why?
Because the first resistance module (or rig) that you add to a ship will always give you 100% of its value.

To confirm this let us look at an Ishtar again with a pilot that has no skills.
Base armor resistance to EM damage is 50%.
The T2 EM Armor hardener gives us a 55% boost to resistance.
Since this is the first resistance mod we get the full 100% effect or
50% plus the 55% boost from the hardener and we get 77.5%.

This last example brings out the possible source for Caterpil's confusion. In a case where base resists are 50% the idea as proposed by Caterpil would get us to the same place so let us follow his math.
100 - 50 = 50
50 + 55% = 77.5.

However if we change the base resist to say 30% then his math goes wrong.
100 - 30 = 70.
70 + 55% = 108.55%.
The real math would get
30 + 55% = 46.5%



All this time I thought you just had a basic misunderstanding of common sense. It's now clear you also don't understand simple math. You missed a step that was explained (with examples) 3 times above. I'll try to help you.

100 - 50 = 50 (yeah, you got that right!!)

Take that remaining 50 ( the what's left as discussed above ) and MULTIPLY that by your 55% hardener. Now add that resistance bonus to what you already have and you get........ (kettle drum roll please).....
50% (original resistance) + (50% (what's left) X 55% (resistance of your added hardener))

So, for a big equation it would look like this:

)50% + (100% - 50%)*55%) OR (.50 + (1.00 - .50)*.55)


Now I'm going to just blow your little pee brain right out of the hangar....

If you add multiple resistance modules, then CCP in all its marvel has been nice enough to apply the best one first, then the second best and then the third best automatically for you such that when you throw a bunch of resistance modules on you will always get the best possible end.

Base + DC + reactive hardener + Best resistance mod + Second best resistance mod (confusing math above applied) + third best resistance mod (again with math that ensures diminishing returns).


Sorcery and crazy talk.

PRO TIP: Put the modules on your ship, undock, turn them on and look at your resistances - then you'll know for sure.