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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2221 - 2017-06-14 00:36:39 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:

Interesting.

So maybe if they had max ratting/ded sites per space region or constellation in a given day, the equivalent of belts being mined out? This would limit the isk flow rather than nerf ships. Is that what you meant?

m


The problem is this impacts everyone, and in fact hits the non supers/carriers harder than the supers, since the faster you do sites as a result the more of the proportion you get. It might slow down the total isk supply, but at the cost of hammering everyone else into the ground, and forcing a single alliance to sprawl all over Nullsec again.

Maybe if we had sites that could be done co-operatively using the new large grid where shooting/hacking this tower over here impacts that structure 1000km away over there and everyone on grid (who isn't cloaked) shares the payouts along the way, but even then supers could split their squadrons to some extent, though the range would place them at greater risk of losing fighters to PvP.


Or in fleet to share rewards. That way you can not have to worry about a cloaked dingaling on grid hoping to get some free benefits.

But yes, using carriers and supers in cooperative anomalies might be interesting.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2222 - 2017-06-14 01:14:33 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Or in fleet to share rewards. That way you can not have to worry about a cloaked dingaling on grid hoping to get some free benefits.

But yes, using carriers and supers in cooperative anomalies might be interesting.

I had the idea of simply on grid to allow two small fleets to meet in a site, but decide not to shoot each other, instead each take separate objectives to stay out of weapons range from the other. Co-operation & competition together that way, while if it's fleet only the only sensible response to an intruder is shoot instantly, if it's anyone on grid you get a bit more of an interesting dilemma.

It's a lot more development work to create that sort of thing though, which means that as a right now solution, they needed to do something, and outright banning carriers/supers from anoms means those people effectively earn 0 with their ships or rather -100% income, rather than the -20% or so profit (assuming fighters are lost sometimes, so profit isn't perfectly aligned with DPS). So in terms of carrier ratting, the current nerf is about as nice as it can be while still doing something.
If they gave something back in terms of fighter survivability alongside the volley reduction it might be nicer for PvP purposes, or something like that, but I don't know enough about new carriers & PvP to really comment on that balance overall.
Objectless Hatred
Cottonmouth Research Institute
Cromwell Exploration Institute
#2223 - 2017-06-14 03:11:20 UTC
Mark Marconi wrote:
Objectless Hatred wrote:
Mark Marconi wrote:
With the new changes I must ask

why the NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%)

That was probably the most sensible change there in and the one that no one was complaining about.



fighters already get curbstomped if they stop moving for more than about 10 seconds.. 15% more aggression is not needed.

Yeah curb stomped.

22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers
24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers

Curb stomped must mean something different where you come from.



Wow, congrats you can copy and paste...

Fact remains that they are curbstomped if they stop moving, they don't die generally primarily becuase of this awesome thing called the W key, aka Orbit. But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2224 - 2017-06-14 04:22:28 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Or in fleet to share rewards. That way you can not have to worry about a cloaked dingaling on grid hoping to get some free benefits.

But yes, using carriers and supers in cooperative anomalies might be interesting.

I had the idea of simply on grid to allow two small fleets to meet in a site, but decide not to shoot each other, instead each take separate objectives to stay out of weapons range from the other. Co-operation & competition together that way, while if it's fleet only the only sensible response to an intruder is shoot instantly, if it's anyone on grid you get a bit more of an interesting dilemma.

It's a lot more development work to create that sort of thing though, which means that as a right now solution, they needed to do something, and outright banning carriers/supers from anoms means those people effectively earn 0 with their ships or rather -100% income, rather than the -20% or so profit (assuming fighters are lost sometimes, so profit isn't perfectly aligned with DPS). So in terms of carrier ratting, the current nerf is about as nice as it can be while still doing something.
If they gave something back in terms of fighter survivability alongside the volley reduction it might be nicer for PvP purposes, or something like that, but I don't know enough about new carriers & PvP to really comment on that balance overall.


Okay, spontaneous cooperation...interesting suggestion.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#2225 - 2017-06-14 08:42:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data.

Greetings Capsuleers,
Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, let’s take a look at what’s coming.

The Data:
Let’s set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that:
  • 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers
  • 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers
  • 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers
Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties.

Why:
Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties.

[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img]

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.
Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%)
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage)
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%)
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%)
  • We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change.


why don't you just limit the maximum bounty payout per tick? with that you could easy have control and just hurt the ones doing the really highest ticks, just limit the payout to example 50m per tick (150m per hour) no matter how many rats are killed..


Another example Jesus Christ crucifixion. Little people wanting to limit great people. Slackers offended by hardcores. One would think PH would do a better job at teaching people and bring out their potential, instead of small mindedness.


you are the only little slacker and small minded player here.. bring up your own ideas or shut the **** up

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Lord Heluene
Arach-Tinilith
#2226 - 2017-06-14 13:59:54 UTC
So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT

AND to top it off,,,they nerfed the mining drones for the Rorqual. They were damaged easily enough before, because they are so slow to return to the ship when recalled. Now they are even slower!! So I literally toss out 900 mil bricks, and pray they don't die to rats. So now that I can't really use the Rorqual to mine anymore, you should put it back in the pos for remote boosting...that or else refund everyone who bought one recently...because you have make them totally useless to the individual miner.

So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to.

So please remind me again...why i spent time here playing your game...when there are other things I could be doing?
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2227 - 2017-06-14 14:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Marconi
Objectless Hatred wrote:
But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it.

Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why?

So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#2228 - 2017-06-14 14:22:01 UTC  |  Edited by: HandelsPharmi
Mark Marconi wrote:
So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players.



Keep in mind, that all miners and even gate campers who have shot a single rat are counted to the 100 % :)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2229 - 2017-06-14 16:18:13 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Random Freak wrote:
Marek Kanenald wrote:
You guys still whining about this?

Literally the only nerf that is left is a 10% light fighter basic damage nerf and a 20% heavy fighter basic damage nerf.


Even the proposed rat aggro was scrapped.


Wasn't this what you wanted?


No. What we want is the isk faucet being fixed, not an arbitrary nerf that will only work short term. We want the underlying cause fixed, not the symptoms.


Interesting.

So maybe if they had max ratting/ded sites per space region or constellation in a given day, the equivalent of belts being mined out? This would limit the isk flow rather than nerf ships. Is that what you meant?

m



Why should alliance that actually use their space be limited just because of 2 class of ship that overperform?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2230 - 2017-06-14 16:20:32 UTC
Lord Heluene wrote:


So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to.



People still mine and still rat. No ability were taken away from you.
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#2231 - 2017-06-14 16:35:08 UTC
Lord Heluene wrote:


So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to.



My bad, I didn't realize this patch removed all mining barges/exhumers from the game. You're right though, they've taken away everyone's ability to mine by nerfing something we haven't even had access to as a mining vessel for a year.

Also I didn't realize that nerfing fighters by 10% made it impossible for you to rat (long range bombers by 20% if you're a super pilot). It's damage and application is just so unbearably low now you just can't bring yourself to do it.

I'm also sorry you're playing a PVP centric game and refuse to partake unless forced.



PS - Please biomass. This is obviously not the game for you. Thanks for the money you gave to CCP for that plex you obviously used for injectors though. It really does help the dev team. At least you provided that much for the community before leaving.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#2232 - 2017-06-14 17:29:31 UTC
Lord Heluene wrote:
So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT

AND to top it off,,,they nerfed the mining drones for the Rorqual. They were damaged easily enough before, because they are so slow to return to the ship when recalled. Now they are even slower!! So I literally toss out 900 mil bricks, and pray they don't die to rats. So now that I can't really use the Rorqual to mine anymore, you should put it back in the pos for remote boosting...that or else refund everyone who bought one recently...because you have make them totally useless to the individual miner.

So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to.

So please remind me again...why i spent time here playing your game...when there are other things I could be doing?



Not your missiles, CCP's missiles and they do what the hell they want with them. confused? read the EULA.

nobody pushed you into any type of ship, you asked your mates what's the best ship for ratting/isk tick and that's why you trained it.

monkey see monkey do.

mining drones are new and they where OP, CCP needed to adjust them, again read the EULA it covers all this about how CCP can do what they want when they want and how they want, you sir are leasing the right to take part. you own nothing in EVE.

you can still mine and rat or don't, your choice, plenty of other ships to rat or mine in.

you spent time here playing the game because you love it, no other reason.

these other things you speak of, why would you blame a video game for stopping you doing them, that's a lazy fecks attitude.
the problem isn't the game stopping you or making you do anything, it's you refusing to accept responsiblity for your own fecking life, the reason why you didn't do the other things is because you made a decision to stay in and play video games.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2233 - 2017-06-14 17:58:43 UTC
Lord Heluene wrote:
So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT



The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling.

Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead?

Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers.

Provide a solution to this problem.

Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem.

Failing that, just bugger off.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Atrinos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2234 - 2017-06-14 18:48:36 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Lord Heluene wrote:
So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT



The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling.

Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead?

Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers.

Provide a solution to this problem.

Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem.

Failing that, just bugger off.


1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps?
2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses
3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp...
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2235 - 2017-06-14 19:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Atrinos wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Lord Heluene wrote:
So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT



The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling.

Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead?

Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers.

Provide a solution to this problem.

Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem.

Failing that, just bugger off.


1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps?
2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses
3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp...



1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line.

2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem.

3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely?

Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Omega Prototype
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#2236 - 2017-06-14 19:30:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Prototype
Yeah great this is fantastic. I dont struggle enough with money with my carrier right CCP? What you are saying is we deserve to be poor all the time right? People barely use carriers as it is and then you nerf them AGAIN. What about the mach? Seriously I have seen some dumb updates but carrier ratting is not a ******* issue. You are already putting a lot of risk carrier ratting with a multi billion isk ship and most super deaths IS FROM RATTING SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS....HOW IS THIS ******* MAKING CONTENT BETTER IF YOU TAKE AWAY MORE CONTENT?! WHAT ARE THE BLACK OPS SUPPOSED TO HOPE FOR IF ALL THEY CAN HOPE FOR IS A RATTLESNAKE?! I shouldnt have to get mad but you should THINK before you do something stupid like this. Cant believe out of all the bad game design decisions it has to be CCP this time. LEAVE THE CAPITALS ALONE. FLY THEM FOR AWHILE AND MAKE MONEY IN THEM THEN DO SOMETHING. UNTIL THEN STFU. Its like if I walked into a hospital and despite having NO EXPERIENCE in any of the fields I tell them that there are some things wrong with surgery out of no where. Let me correct people saying there is too much isk flowing in the game......you are wrong. Theres a lot fo isk but it aint towards the normal players. its too the few wealthy money hugging people buying and selling **** and pumping out faction capitals for themselves like candy...HUH KIND OF LIKE REAL LIFE. So no there is not too much money and that notion is delusional. How about make ratting for the ratters MORE profitable and stop these super rich people from making so much money if you believe that ISK is the issue. Because let me tell you all this isk you say there is a lot fo just rolling around I havent got any of it so I have to ask wtf are you people talking about even?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2237 - 2017-06-14 19:35:49 UTC
Omega Prototype wrote:
Yeah great this is fantastic. I dont struggle enough with money with my carrier right CCP? What you are saying is we deserve to be poor all the time right? People barely use carriers as it is and then you nerf them AGAIN. What about the mach? Seriously I have seen some dumb updates but carrier ratting is not a ******* issue. You are already putting a lot of risk carrier ratting with a multi billion isk ship and most super deaths IS FROM RATTING SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS....HOW IS THIS ******* MAKING CONTENT BETTER IF YOU TAKE AWAY MORE CONTENT?! WHAT ARE THE BLACK OPS SUPPOSED TO HOPE FOR IF ALL THEY CAN HOPE FOR IS A RATTLESNAKE?! I shouldnt have to get mad but you should THINK before you do something stupid like this. Cant believe out of all the bad game design decisions it has to be CCP this time. LEAVE THE CAPITALS ALONE. FLY THEM FOR AWHILE AND MAKE MONEY IN THEM THEN DO SOMETHING. UNTIL THEN STFU. Its like if I walked into a hospital and despite having NO EXPERIENCE in any of the fields I tell them that there are some things wrong with surgery out of no where.



TBH, if Carrier-ratting didn't have amazingly out-sized rewards, I doubt you would be this emotional at the prospect of it being nerfed.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Omega Prototype
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#2238 - 2017-06-14 19:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Prototype
No I would be upset because I want to use them in combat too and I love the complexity behind them but these nerfs dont mean anything. They will just make it so everyone just uses dreads and titans. They already cost a lot and now they wont be used at all...like what are we supposed to load them with SS fighters and tackle and thats it? Am I not allowed to risk a high value asset without getting slapped every time I look at my carrier? Plus all the prices on things have gone UP since last I saw so where is this money they claim we have aside from the few rich?
Atrinos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2239 - 2017-06-14 19:41:44 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Atrinos wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Lord Heluene wrote:
So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT



The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling.

Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead?

Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers.

Provide a solution to this problem.

Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem.

Failing that, just bugger off.


1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps?
2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses
3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp...



1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line.

2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem.

3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely?

Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again.



1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem.

2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing.


Omega Prototype
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#2240 - 2017-06-14 19:44:13 UTC
Atrinos wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Atrinos wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Lord Heluene wrote:
So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT



The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling.

Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead?

Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers.

Provide a solution to this problem.

Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem.

Failing that, just bugger off.


1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps?
2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses
3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp...



1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line.

2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem.

3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely?

Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again.



1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem.

2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing.



EXACTLY. ALREADY RISKING A HIGH VALUE SLOW SHIP. AND AGAIN WHAT DO BLACK OPS HAVE TO LOOK FORWARD TOO WITH NO CARRIERS RATTING?