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This didn't impact carrier pvp at all. The only thing this accomplished was hurt the people who rat in carriers.

Who in the five hells ever said that? And even if someone did, how could it possibly be misconstrued into the idea that CCP must be responsible for people bad gameplay actions?

If you skill inject into a flavor of the month thing because everyone is doing it when you KNOW that CCP is well known and notorious for nerfing things like that, that's no one's fault but your own. This is why I own neither Rorqual nor Super Carrier (no offence intended to intelligent Rorq and SuperCap pilots, ALL Offense intended to the stupid ones).

Statistics wasn't your forté was it? With a sample size of data, the larger the sample size, the closer you will get to the ideal spread of that data in reality. Or to put it another way, a sample size of 100% of the available data will match exactly with the observed results because it will be the actual data. 50% of the data as a set taken randomly from all the available data will get you pretty close to the actual behaviour when modelled.

Generally speaking, the more data you have the better your statistical model will match with the reality in observation from the whole possible dataset, but over 150k data points will give you a pretty close approximation as long as you've taken it at random. The data was for the whole of the first five days across the whole game (excluding wormholes which don't give any bounties) and so should be fairly representative of the month as a whole. Well, unless the whole game somehow steps up their ratting for the last 5 days of the month just to mess with CCP. I can't see it myself, but you never know now.....

Once again and I can't believe that this needs saying, CCP have no need to lie about the figures. I don't know why they didn't provide them in the first place as part of the reasoning, it would have produced a very different thread, but they don't need to lie. They've reduced the level of the nerf as a stop-gap, which is fair enough. It buys them a little time to deal with the problem more creatively than nerfing into the ground.

Though the graph for money in has been steadily rising for nigh on a year now, so why they didn't have something proposed prior to now is anyone's guess....

Why?

The way bitcoin works is not applicable to this game. Bitcoin creation is governed by an algorithm. With respect to ISK CCP wants players to play the game and produce ISK, but it can't be too much or too little. Too much and inflation can get out of hand. Too little and deflation can curb stomp the economy. Inflation has the potential for a positive feedback loop, and deflation a negative one. That is, this system may not be self-correcting. Most market activities are self-correcting in that once you start to incur losses it is just a matter of time before you have to stop. Profits will ensure people keep going and provide and incentive for people to get into that market and pursue innovation and invention. Money has always been a tricky thing in economies in that governments rarely can keep their damn hands off of it, thus often mucking it up more than stabilizing things.

Case in point, CCP revamped carriers and supers and turned them into ISK printers. Where a small number of players can create as much ISK as a much, much larger number of players.

And there have been other instances where governments have screwed up money and prices. The most recent example is Venezuela where hyperinflation and price controls have destroyed the economy and people are going hungry in a nation rich with natural resources.

To CCP's credit they see the problem: too much ISK coming into the economy. One can argue their suggested fix is good or bad, but that much ISK entering the economy cannot be allowed to continue. This isn't an issue with an ISK faucet it is an ISK fire hose.

consider this...the amount of new ISK created was around 64 trillion. The overall total amount of ISK is a bit over 1 quadrillion. The previous amounts of ISK entering the economy was around 9.5T ISK/month. So, at that rate to double the amount of ISK in game it would take 105 months or 8 years and 9 months. Last month 64 trillion ISK entered the economy. The amount of ISK in game would double in 1 year and 3.5 months. It took 67 months to add 620T ISK to the game. Now we'll do it in just under 10 months. With absolutely no negative consequences?

Now we'll add NPCs to the market...why? What is this going to accomplish?

Again: Just turn off the ISK fire host. That is the most simple and elegant solution. No need to dance around implementing silly ideas.

Teckos, stop rambling and propose a solution that limits the printability of carriers without destroying their combat ability, that or demonstrate that even under a full nerf the combat ability isn't actually being harmed and the reduction is really necessary for PvP purposes as well, if you can't do either with any competence then I would strongly argue the issue is in how bounty payouts work and not how carriers function. I'm an invisible hand advocate so all of your economics flourishes don't really sway me at all, active interference in markets ruins everything they're supposed to do.

I already have. Train reading comprehension....Hell, inject the skill.

Possible solutions: no change at all the carriers/supers, but they can no longer enter any anomalies. Or they can enter the anomaly, but can't lock rats. Baltec had something like when a carrier warps in a capital rat warps in with no bounty. Thus, the ISK printing is slowed down. Some have suggested carrier/super only anomalies that can be balanced in terms of how much they inject into the economy.

In general I'd be happy with the following:

1. Code in ban on carriers and supers entering anomalies today (tomorrow is acceptable).
2. Look for a better longer term solution that preserves PvP capabilities but does not trash the economy.
3. Maybe remove the ban depending on the solution.

For 2 there are probably a wide number of solutions, some might be implemented together. I have even suggested that CCP listen to their players, not the butthurt raging ones, but the ones who can see the problem and trying to suggest helpful solutions.

Except that the ISK supply grew in month at a rate that is comparable to six months of ISK growth last year. Yeah, other than that...nothing.

And I have been opposed to simply nerfing the DPS of carriers. I think that is ham handed. I'd prefer a temporary ban on carriers/supers ratting (at least a month, the upside is we can see what happens to ISK growth, if it doesn't drop to a more reasonable number then there maybe other problems too) and look for an alternative solution that preserves the PvP capabilities and does not trash the economy. Maybe limit carriers to capital anomalies where the ISK payouts can be adjusted to keep things on a reasonable basis.

One of the points I raise routinely in balance discussions is do not nerf game play for those not causing a problem. If a player has a carrier, uses it for PvP and does not rat in it, then this nerf hits hard and rather unfairly. A more subtle solution is called for, IMO.

Please tell me how much money it would take to skill into a super, buy the super, and the modules.

Here I'll help. A 25 billion ISK super will cost close to $310. Exactly how many people do you think are plunking that down? Let alone the ISK to fly a super.

And on top of that, all injectors do is move the problem forward in time. If the issue is carriers and supers are efficient at farming ISK...then they'd be just as efficient in 3 years when people have skilled into them the old fashioned way and we'd have the problem then.

See you noticed it too:



That appears to be the problem. Whether people get their via injectors or time.

I've seen people drop thousands of dollars on cardboard and plastic, some will do it on a whim two or three times a year. Never underestimate how swiftly a fool and his money will be separated, look at me, I'm poor.

The problem is this impacts everyone, and in fact hits the non supers/carriers harder than the supers, since the faster you do sites as a result the more of the proportion you get. It might slow down the total isk supply, but at the cost of hammering everyone else into the ground, and forcing a single alliance to sprawl all over Nullsec again.

Maybe if we had sites that could be done co-operatively using the new large grid where shooting/hacking this tower over here impacts that structure 1000km away over there and everyone on grid (who isn't cloaked) shares the payouts along the way, but even then supers could split their squadrons to some extent, though the range would place them at greater risk of losing fighters to PvP.