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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
Noobshot Elongur
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1681 - 2017-06-12 11:06:47 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.

We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.




My "Fozzie frothing at the mouth, pacing back and forth in his office, shouting GRRR GOONS!" sense is tingling.

Hey CCP, I actually killed one dread in all the havens I farmed last week with my thanitos. Does that put me in your upper 1% of the 1%? If so, I will ask my corp to make a medal or title.....
Rumi Shanti
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#1682 - 2017-06-12 11:27:42 UTC
Anna Wong wrote:
What about citadels? The damage output especially from the medium citadels is low enough without a further reduction

This is a very important point made:

Citadels right now are about the worst venture in the game: The vulnerabilities are easy to exploit, and if any given corp or alliance wants you gone, and you're a small guy, you're gone. It leaves these from a beneficial perspective to the elite. For some joe whom wants a little ranch with a few hands to mineral farm and hunt rats all day... You just better hope you don't get noticed. Please make some sort of exception to the fighters as part of citadels, or make a change to buff them in another way to compensate for this. In the current state of things, I will not build an Astrahus until I am almost certain I will not loose my shirt.

Other than that, there are big big players whom are farming many lucrative features of the game on a scale that's absurd. The result? These features aren't readily available for everyone else, so the rich get richer... the rest get bored and find a different game to play... These changes are good, and very desperately needed. Good job for having the guts to do it, I know there will be many that are going to be upset for a short bit.

Right as the changes were announced I went at a criminal whom targeted me. I went to dock but his buddy in a marauder or something uncloaked and held point on me and bumped me off dock. He was repping the Apocalypse real well, my Barghest died a slow, painful death (it took a good 6 minutes). When it was done I laughed, and told the guys thanks for the fight. They were very mad I didn't pay (yes it was a blackmail setup). I said never and laughed out loud. They were foaming from the mouth angry that I was not shedding tears over my ship...Then I took my lil pod inside the market hub, pulled up the contracts... then i cried! Overnight the price nearly doubled from a rigged and fitted ship to a blueprint for twice as much. But as a brand spanking new player, with no experience, nor knowledge about this game, no rapport with any players, I was able to fly any of these pirate battleships that could alpha many veterans, or whole ganks for that matter.... and with 1 day training needed.... This is a good thing, putting these out of the hands they shouldn't be in (like mine ;) )
Zhu Horizon
Spanish Inquisition.
#1683 - 2017-06-12 11:30:45 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.

We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


* 2>dev/null

Lord Bucketheads opinion

Ugh


Ashley Miston
Forve Corp
#1684 - 2017-06-12 11:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashley Miston
almost 1700 replies here and not a single word from ccp.....you can do what you want is your game, and you can keep you big and empty space for yourself if things keep that route....i'm not even mad about the nerf anymore the lack of communication on such stuff rushed in on friday is even worst imho
either argoument the nerf with more data and tell us to shut up and why it's needed or come up with a better solution but you can't just simply ignore us (even if looks like we are 1% of 1% of 1%...) and hope we will keep to pay....
Tenaya Masai
#1685 - 2017-06-12 11:36:03 UTC
it just shows the arrogance from CCP. and if the CSM had any sense they would back us on this. cause after all it is the ppl that voted them in...
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1686 - 2017-06-12 11:49:10 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


In 65 months we have not seen this sudden jump in the growth if ISK...and suddenly it is okay?

You are just simply wrong. That kind of growth in the money supply, if sustained, will be devastating in terms of inflation. Go look at the Chinese server were botting is completely allowed and ISK is flowing into the economy at unprecedented rates. PLEX were several multiples of what they cost on Tranquility and that was several years ago.
You can also freely buy characters, Ships and anything else we can't by exchanging RL money with another player.

This has NOTHING to do with TQ, it is down to Chinese EULA being modified to suit Chinese regulations. (Techos, stop trying to defend CCP with bullshite excuses)


CCP's idea of game "balance" is to make it so the richest largest groups will ALWAYS win the day.

4 nerfs to owning a pirate battleship in ONE release - If that isn't "balance" biased toward the rich, what is?

Carriers nerfed into the ground for both PVP and PVE when part of the reason isk income has gone up is due to a coming release advertised by CCP that fundamentally changes the way alliances fight (moon mining and bottom up income)

CCP caused the problem and are blaming and punishing players for their poor game design.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Petros K
C5 Flight
The Skeleton Crew
#1687 - 2017-06-12 11:50:30 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) .

The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time .

The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ?




Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit .
handsomebeast
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1688 - 2017-06-12 11:51:50 UTC
rip eve been playin a year seen plex go up by a 3rd in isk value, end game stuff nerfed to hell, but lots of skins to buy
and only 2 public events. trained a carrier for 8 months to fly well
2 days after nerf to fighter signature which is expensive when loosing t2s, so i spend nearly 2 months gettin fighters 5 and another 65 on carrier 5 now a 30 percent cut to damage as i finish carrier 5 to get some damage its useless. also training rorqual no point now.

if you want people to leave just ask nicely dont kick em in the back on the way out ccp
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#1689 - 2017-06-12 12:10:02 UTC
handsomebeast wrote:
rip eve been playin a year seen plex go up by a 3rd in isk value, end game stuff nerfed to hell, but lots of skins to buy
and only 2 public events. trained a carrier for 8 months to fly well
2 days after nerf to fighter signature which is expensive when loosing t2s, so i spend nearly 2 months gettin fighters 5 and another 65 on carrier 5 now a 30 percent cut to damage as i finish carrier 5 to get some damage its useless. also training rorqual no point now.

if you want people to leave just ask nicely dont kick em in the back on the way out ccp


what endgame stuff has been nerfed to hell?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Blitz Hacker
The Mythically Intoxicated
Solyaris Chtonium
#1690 - 2017-06-12 12:12:48 UTC
Kestrel Clairvoyant wrote:
These calls for massive uprising of players. Whats next? guns are too OP lets fight with sticks in space...#fuCCP

Good news is the ratting ships and **** will be VNi's .. which I'm pretty sure you can use in an alpha clone. So we can still grind away albet slower. and watch as these jerks drown #notmysubscription
lolz Quekz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1691 - 2017-06-12 12:20:25 UTC
Blitz Hacker wrote:
Kestrel Clairvoyant wrote:
These calls for massive uprising of players. Whats next? guns are too OP lets fight with sticks in space...#fuCCP

Good news is the ratting ships and **** will be VNi's .. which I'm pretty sure you can use in an alpha clone. So we can still grind away albet slower. and watch as these jerks drown #notmysubscription


Quant hinted at the possibility of drones nerf or increase AI focus on drones :x
Mark Ryden
Backyard Mining Co.
Destiny's Call
#1692 - 2017-06-12 12:28:49 UTC
Not sure if anyone already suggested this, but if all players stop doing PvP and focus on PvE for one week only, CCP may actually realize that this is not a Problem of overpowering ships. This is because a large player group is focusing efforts to into a certain direction. With pure numbers you can outsmart any of those "brilliant" nerfs that again only really hit the small Teams that can't fuekd those numbers.... CCP you better think first next time!!
C09
#1693 - 2017-06-12 12:29:54 UTC
About economy, since PLEX cost was 400 milions noone need or dream to do PVE with a carrier... lol ...
lolz Quekz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1694 - 2017-06-12 12:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: lolz Quekz
Mark Ryden wrote:
Not sure if anyone already suggested this, but if all players stop doing PvP and focus on PvE for one week only, CCP may actually realize that this is not a Problem of overpowering ships. This is because a large player group is focusing efforts to into a certain direction. With pure numbers you can outsmart any of those "brilliant" nerfs that again only really hit the small Teams that can't fuekd those numbers.... CCP you better think first next time!!


i pointed out the possibility earlier today that eve was basically on perma war for a period of time and yet still bounty income was rising steadily and that the recent blue donut after the moon mining was introduced and all the people pulling out from the front lines may have contributed to this sudden increase as there is nothing for people to do other than preparing for the next war which naturally means stockpiling assets and got smacked and said it has never happened before so it will not happen again

edit:
i have not been in eve long enough to know the effects of another other example of a peaceful age but the political climate right now seems to point in that possibility
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1695 - 2017-06-12 12:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Valdr Auduin
Petros K wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) .

The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time .

The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ?




Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit .


Your method is also scaleable across alts where a carrier isn't, the time-cost is irrelevant when you can double your number of PLEX'd subs every day. And no I'm not discounting the training time, that's irrelevant when skill injectors exist and each VNI is making 500 Plex a day. The VNI multi-box is a runaway exploit, carriers just make one single account very efficient to farm.
X Minx
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1696 - 2017-06-12 12:56:44 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.

We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


Doesn't matter what we all write I doubt ccp would read change direction. Probably a good time to put account into hiatus again.
Petros K
C5 Flight
The Skeleton Crew
#1697 - 2017-06-12 13:10:10 UTC
Valdr Auduin wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) .

The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time .

The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ?




Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit .


Your method is also scaleable across alts where a carrier isn't, the time-cost is irrelevant when you can double your number of PLEX'd subs every day. And no I'm not discounting the training time, that's irrelevant when skill injectors exist and each VNI is making 500 Plex a day. The VNI multi-box is a runaway exploit, carriers just make one single account very efficient to farm.



You get exactly my point , carriers not only shouldnt get nerfed but instead they should get boosted for that sole reason .

Just one month of AFK mining is enough to buy enough skill injectors for super decend VNI skills , after that you can buy 1x Skill injector every 2 days, which will reduce almost 8days from skill training queue . Its a matter of weeks before you are able to max out the damage potential of a very easy to use ship . (of course calculate the plex cost into that )

I really expected EVE to be harder , of course ratting the whole day isnt something enjoyable but right now this is the best way to "catch up" with older players .

What i really dont understand is why CCP is moving aggresive with a solution which will create a hole in the water , these choices is something that an outsider would do . Neither lowering the boundy would make any significant difference , the prices would just adjust to the possible income of the players .



Therefore my conclusion is that either CCP doesnt know their game OR there are other motives behind this sudden change .

Side1Bu2Rnz9
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1698 - 2017-06-12 13:10:37 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here.

The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply.


A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom...

You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead...
cursedlion
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1699 - 2017-06-12 13:14:50 UTC
Ah how funny all these things sound to us the wormholers. how insignificant.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#1700 - 2017-06-12 13:22:00 UTC
cursedlion wrote:
Ah how funny all these things sound to us the wormholers. how insignificant.


It's not just wormholers. I'm a null sec guy through and through, and ratting is my main thing and has been for the 9 + years I've been playing in null. And I think it's pretty insignificant too, of course I never let myself get sucked into carrier ratting because anyone with eyes who has watched CCP over the years knew that it would get nerfed hard eventually.