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What exactly did CCP nerf and what's all the fuss about?
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Callum Perkins
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-06-11 12:37:42 UTC
Title says it all really, I hear capitals have been in some way shape or form but could anybody explain? Question
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2017-06-11 12:48:49 UTC
Callum Perkins wrote:
Title says it all really, I hear capitals have been in some way shape or form but could anybody explain? Question

CCP on Tuesday will be making the following alterations to fighters.


  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


This is due in a large part to Carriers running anomalies in Delve and Deklein with the totals of bounties in the game doubling in the last 12-18 months.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/1_regional.stats.png

So a huge isk faucet for Null is being threatened and they are complaining. It also effects the carriers effects in PvP but then so does a T1 frigate with a jammer.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Skorpynekomimi
#3 - 2017-06-11 12:49:06 UTC
They reduced fighter damage from carriers, to reduce the isk/hr of farming nullsec anomalies.
On top of reducing the Rorqual's yield even further.

It's pretty much entirely a few rich buggers whining about it on the 5000 accounts they had to turn their plentiful ISK into RMT.

Economic PVP
Keno Skir
#4 - 2017-06-11 14:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
They reduced fighter damage from carriers, to reduce the isk/hr of farming nullsec anomalies.
On top of reducing the Rorqual's yield even further.

It's pretty much entirely a few rich buggers whining about it on the 5000 accounts they had to turn their plentiful ISK into RMT.


No, it isn't. It used to be only rich buggers that flew carriers, but now since injectors it's pretty much everyone. The recent complaints are only part to do with carrier changes anyway.

Mark Marconi wrote:
So a huge isk faucet for Null is being threatened and they are complaining. It also effects the carriers effects in PvP but then so does a T1 frigate with a jammer.


That's a silly analogy.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Kogilla
Doomheim
#5 - 2017-06-11 14:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kogilla
I believe the fuss isn't so much about the nerf itself as it is about how inelegant a solution it was to a stated problem, and with the lack of communication (the nerf was announced on Friday and will hit Tuesday, kind of scummy).

For many this isn't even the issue, but rather the straw that broke the camel's back. A lot of discontent with the direction CCP has been taking the game of late (increasing prevalence of monetization schemes via microtransactions, lack of any real conflict drivers in sov nullsec, citadel bugs and timer mechanics, incredibly delayed and unsatisfactory response to the ghost training issue that was brought to their attention last December, etc.) is wrapped up in all this, and yet somehow people still think it's just about "muh ticks". Then CCP Quant popped up on the subreddit and called all the people complaining "the top 1% of the top 1%", giving many a perceived confirmation of their notion that the devs are incredibly out of touch with their own playerbase.

I don't have any skin in the game. These are just the impressions I have after reading through the (rare) well-reasoned arguments on the subreddit and these forums.
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#6 - 2017-06-11 14:35:39 UTC
The silly thing is people making a fuss on alts as if CCP dont know who they are. Roll

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#7 - 2017-06-11 15:06:09 UTC
Sure hope making carriers unable to break the reps on a cruiser gang is fixing something.
Seems like a dumb fix.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Keno Skir
#8 - 2017-06-11 15:36:33 UTC
They nerfed carrier dps by 20-40% and ignored the Ghost Training SP farming exploit that's giving everyone free ISK and SP. Among other things.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#9 - 2017-06-11 15:44:15 UTC
on reddit there are a lot of posts talking about how sov and citadel mechanics have pretty much killed any reason for large scale pvp, and this has caused alliances to sit back and farm their space. Sov requires you to be active in your space, and with the jump changes it is hard to deploy and watch the home areas. and with citadels you deploy it and if it makes it, well it lives for at least three weeks, and when it gets destroyed everything gets teleported to safety. Any giant fight is basically meaningless as they can just drop another citadel.

supers have farmed as much isk this year as everyone farmed last year. 1% of the 1% is a little strong but how many super ratters are there, and of those how many are hardcore farming? Normal carrier ratting seems reasonable given the levels of incomes available in other areas of space.

so all the pvpers are bored and prone to madness, the ratters are mad as they are getting a nerf

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Aivoras Kurosawa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-06-11 20:32:12 UTC
Null space carebear tears :)
Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
#11 - 2017-06-11 20:56:29 UTC
always so much drama.
WarFireV
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-06-11 22:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: WarFireV
They are nerfing fighter and fighter bombers damage. It is just a weird nerf that effects the ships way more in PvP than it does in PvE despite the stated reasons as a PvE nerf.

Carriers are going to be pretty bad after, but Supers will still be fine and able to rack in the anom cash like nothing. So it is more of a head scratch type of nerf that does nothing to fix any problem.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#13 - 2017-06-11 22:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
WarFireV wrote:
They are nerfing fighter and fighter bombers damage. It is just a weird nerf that effects the ships way more in PvP than it does in PvE despite the stated reasons as a PvE nerf.

Carriers are going to be pretty bad after, but Supers will still be fine and able to rack in the anom cash like nothing. So it is more of a head scratch type of nerf that does nothing to fix any problem.

Its not a head scratch, its progression, fuelled by skil injectors. Then nerfhammer will strike again, but at the supers. 🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#14 - 2017-06-11 22:47:33 UTC
It sucks but it's human nature. CCP puts things into the game without thinking it through, players take thing and find some way to use it that screws things up, then CCP comes back and fixes the thing that they shoulda known was too powerful in the 1st place, and as soon as they do that the people who came to rely on it lose their minds.

CCP could prevent this by not making faulty assumptions (such as "there will never be a bunch of super caps because they are so expensive", I think that's my favorite one) and understanding that players WILL find and exploit design flaws.
WarFireV
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2017-06-11 23:32:18 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
WarFireV wrote:
They are nerfing fighter and fighter bombers damage. It is just a weird nerf that effects the ships way more in PvP than it does in PvE despite the stated reasons as a PvE nerf.

Carriers are going to be pretty bad after, but Supers will still be fine and able to rack in the anom cash like nothing. So it is more of a head scratch type of nerf that does nothing to fix any problem.

Its not a head scratch, its progression, fuelled by skil injectors. Then nerfhammer will strike again, but at the supers. 🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨


I mean it doesn't really fix the problem. Carrier pilots will just switch to Rattlesnakes or AKF Ishtar/VNIs. Super pilots will just laugh and keep doing their thing.

In the end CCP will have to do something else.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#16 - 2017-06-12 00:32:45 UTC
WarFireV wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
WarFireV wrote:
They are nerfing fighter and fighter bombers damage. It is just a weird nerf that effects the ships way more in PvP than it does in PvE despite the stated reasons as a PvE nerf.

Carriers are going to be pretty bad after, but Supers will still be fine and able to rack in the anom cash like nothing. So it is more of a head scratch type of nerf that does nothing to fix any problem.

Its not a head scratch, its progression, fuelled by skil injectors. Then nerfhammer will strike again, but at the supers. 🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨


I mean it doesn't really fix the problem. Carrier pilots will just switch to Rattlesnakes or AKF Ishtar/VNIs. Super pilots will just laugh and keep doing their thing.

In the end CCP will have to do something else.


People used Ishtar's and rattlesnakes and carriers for years before the Introduction of Fighter Squadrons and bounty injection into the economy stayed stead for years. It takes an Ishtar 5 hours to make what a ratting super makes in one. And even if that super pilot switches to 5 Ishtars it's better all around because that's 5 accounts being plexed (high end ratters tend to plex) instead of one, helping drive demand for plex and sinking more isk from transaction taxes for buying those plexes
DARK SYCOPATA
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#17 - 2017-06-12 01:35:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
WarFireV wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
WarFireV wrote:
They are nerfing fighter and fighter bombers damage. It is just a weird nerf that effects the ships way more in PvP than it does in PvE despite the stated reasons as a PvE nerf.

Carriers are going to be pretty bad after, but Supers will still be fine and able to rack in the anom cash like nothing. So it is more of a head scratch type of nerf that does nothing to fix any problem.

Its not a head scratch, its progression, fuelled by skil injectors. Then nerfhammer will strike again, but at the supers. 🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨


I mean it doesn't really fix the problem. Carrier pilots will just switch to Rattlesnakes or AKF Ishtar/VNIs. Super pilots will just laugh and keep doing their thing.

In the end CCP will have to do something else.


People used Ishtar's and rattlesnakes and carriers for years before the Introduction of Fighter Squadrons and bounty injection into the economy stayed stead for years. It takes an Ishtar 5 hours to make what a ratting super makes in one. And even if that super pilot switches to 5 Ishtars it's better all around because that's 5 accounts being plexed (high end ratters tend to plex) instead of one, helping drive demand for plex and sinking more isk from transaction taxes for buying those plexes


Amen

I can see the CCP brainstorming session...

"Sems all people user injectors to fly carri and rorqual, its time to nerf it and promote multy box again.... o yes no lomger is needed the gosting skill injectos fix it..."
Sara Starbuck
Adamantine Creations
#18 - 2017-06-12 05:23:58 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
They nerfed carrier dps by 20-40% and ignored the Ghost Training SP farming exploit that's giving everyone free ISK and SP. Among other things.


You might get free SP but no free ISK since it comes from other players, however bounties bring ISK into game from nothingIdea
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#19 - 2017-06-12 06:10:33 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
on reddit there are a lot of posts talking about how sov and citadel mechanics have pretty much killed any reason for large scale pvp, and this has caused alliances to sit back and farm their space. Sov requires you to be active in your space, and with the jump changes it is hard to deploy and watch the home areas. and with citadels you deploy it and if it makes it, well it lives for at least three weeks, and when it gets destroyed everything gets teleported to safety. Any giant fight is basically meaningless as they can just drop another citadel.

supers have farmed as much isk this year as everyone farmed last year. 1% of the 1% is a little strong but how many super ratters are there, and of those how many are hardcore farming? Normal carrier ratting seems reasonable given the levels of incomes available in other areas of space.

so all the pvpers are bored and prone to madness, the ratters are mad as they are getting a nerf




Interesting.

Do you think CCP will finally just drop all SOV mechanics and let the players sort it out?

Probably not.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Perkin Warbeck
Higher Than Everest
#20 - 2017-06-12 07:00:55 UTC
It's carebear tears plain and simple. They've nerfed the Rorq (which was ridiculously overpowered) and now they have nerfed carriers. I'm sure supers will be next. And that's fine because it is retardedly simple to make isk in null. The main issue is that everyone skill injected their alts to get one of these and is now seeing a diminished return.

Yes some Citadel mechanics should be tweaked as the effort/benefit of removing them is out of whack. Aegis sov is far better than what was there was before. But lack of content drivers in null? Please pull the other one. That's what everyone was saying before WWB. Most of the major content in this game has been player driven and not about mechanics at all.

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