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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#1141 - 2017-06-10 10:57:52 UTC

CCP Quant wrote:
What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. .............


Well, I'd really wish that had been quoted here instead of the sperg medium.....

But some of us do understand why.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

Lord Vyper
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1142 - 2017-06-10 10:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Vyper
30% at no point should you ever need to nerf something by this much. You either havent been watching the damage output or this is a gut instinct call instead of stats. Tuning should be done in not more than 10% intervals. You guys keep swinging the balance of all your content out of whack. Then everyone scrambles to the next best means and you repeat it again. Please stop announcing changes without actually having a discussion with the player base. Not CSM the actual player base.

The first change to address the PVE issues should not have even included touching the ship. Every ship in the game has access to this same content. The problem is the faucet aka the Bounties and EHP of he rats themselves. Things you can do without affecting the PVP capabilities of these shipts

- A) Reduce rat sig radius
- B) Increase resistance and EHP
- C) Reduce how often these anomalies spawn aka cool down maybe 30 - 60 mins after a full set has been cleared. This would also encourage people to spread out and own more space or occupy it. More dangerous more rewarding to have a system to yourself
- D) Reduce the total bounty of each complex and or Individual NPCs
- E) Increase the risk of these sites by changing the profile of the Rats ie' damage capabilities.
- F) Reduce overall fighter health in combination w/ increasing their aggro. This would also have a small positive effect on the fighter market
-G) Add some variety of smaller complexes that have decent rewards but dont allow Carriers/ Supers into them and put them on the spawn cycle as Haven's ETC. Similar to how you have Burner Missions
-H) Add webbing towers that prioritize drones/ and fighters

I don't rat in a super but this just feels like the wrong tool for the job. Please reconsider these changes. PVP capabilities should absolutely not be limited due to poor planning on your part to design PVE with the future in mind.
Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
#1143 - 2017-06-10 11:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sassura
Dan Sever wrote:
Zero Davahum wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen

CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry.

The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit.

Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored.

As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.

I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Big smile


Is some one from xXDeath talking about isk mountains? The irony.

When I look through threads like these I can pick out some interesting things. There is always the knee jerk reaction to massive changes, that is expected. However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest.

There is also always that handful of players who laugh and shout 'Haha @ x group of people' because they dislike the people who are upset, or the game mechanic itself. Often because it is because it is not something that they enjoy doing. Then you will find the people who support the change, nerf, rebalance. Usually they raise some good points but focus on one small part of things and will usually refuse to engage in discussion with the many valid points that are raised by others.

It is really quite disheartening to see how the CCP view their playerbase. While talking about needing to work on the isk supply and inflation (great) one of the recent actions they took was to introduce their new version of plex, broken in game of course, which they even admitted at the time would cause a rise in prices. Then you read comments from people at the heart of CCP who at best cherry pick facts and figures to support things, while not engaging in an discussion about the heart of the problem and at worst imply that the playerbase using carrier and supers to rat in nullsec are often multiboxing 17 accounts or RMTing.

Very disappointing and insulting.

CCP stop introducing mechanics into the game which you nerf bat into oblivion and you won't need to deal with the dissatisfaction of your players. You make the game. You introduce the mechanics.
MONTYJOHN
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1144 - 2017-06-10 11:01:40 UTC
when you are going to get 30m ticks most likely post patch and you loose 2-3 fighters per site your going to me making a measly 20m at that point you might as well be in a ishtar imo
Dan Sever
Weird Wanderers
#1145 - 2017-06-10 11:03:54 UTC
Sassura wrote:
Dan Sever wrote:
Zero Davahum wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen

CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry.

The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit.

Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored.

As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.

I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Big smile


However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest.

Ofc, casual ratters like myself will only benefit from this nerf. Less isk = lower prices = higher yield for us. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#1146 - 2017-06-10 11:07:10 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:
What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. .............


Lol. The top 1% would never bother to rat in a single carrier. That's something poor long-time-players do. The top 1% doesnt need ratting/mining and if they do they multibox 10 rorquals.
Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
#1147 - 2017-06-10 11:08:46 UTC
Dan Sever wrote:
Sassura wrote:
Dan Sever wrote:
Zero Davahum wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen

CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry.

The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit.

Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored.

As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.

I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Big smile


However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest.

Ofc, casual ratters like myself will only benefit from this nerf. Less isk = lower prices = higher yield for us. Correct me if I'm wrong.


You're wrong.

Dan Sever
Weird Wanderers
#1148 - 2017-06-10 11:10:58 UTC
Sassura wrote:
Dan Sever wrote:
Sassura wrote:
Dan Sever wrote:
Zero Davahum wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen

CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry.

The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit.

Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored.

As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.

I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Big smile


However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest.

Ofc, casual ratters like myself will only benefit from this nerf. Less isk = lower prices = higher yield for us. Correct me if I'm wrong.


You're wrong.



Mind to elaborate?
MONTYJOHN
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1149 - 2017-06-10 11:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: MONTYJOHN
prices will still hold due to plex/injector prices

and even then it becomes a supply vs demand situation and minerals/mods will fetch a further premium
Von Jovhian
Doomheim
#1150 - 2017-06-10 11:13:12 UTC
I have 3 active accounts and I pay with real money for all my subscriptions to support your miserable company. Ratting is what I do to buy pvp ships and pvp. I guarantee you if you online this patch I will unsubscribe all my accounts.
Somi Zulfi
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1151 - 2017-06-10 11:19:27 UTC
We dont want your winter update, there are higher priorities:

1. Cancer-Sov
2. Cancer-Citadels

Fix these first, then work on moon refineries or whatever **** you want to mess up next.

Fix and prioritize these.
Axon Magnus
Tactical Stability Union
#1152 - 2017-06-10 11:19:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Axon Magnus
people with these nerfs which have been implemented head strong like this , it very much seems like CCP is killing their game intentionally just so they dont get a fall out when they finally pull the plug or sell the eve online IP off ! to me my opinions stands that this is just a bunch of processes one would take ether to introduce a new game or get ride of the game i might be wrong here but thats what it seems like to me.

On the other hand i have one account was just about to make a new one once i had got my self into a nid so that seem pointless now. seems better to just rate in a marauder am sure many would disagrees with that but its the best fastest i have access to now , and yes he is wrong this will kill it for little guys like me who just recently got into null and wanted to do less pve and more pvp i have even disabled my account in solidarity with you my people , that was really my next goal after the marauder i had a few days left to fly it oh well , star citizen seems about perfect at this time :) , might as well use the time i would have used on eve to start working on mods for it .

why is ccp committing suicide ? Shocked
Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
#1153 - 2017-06-10 11:20:45 UTC
The top 1% of the top 1% will remain as rich, if not richer than they already are. Their wealth was long established before rorquals and the new fighter mechanics were introduced.

Of course fixing inflation will benefit those who are not considered to be super rich. (Sorry for the pun) However the most recent major game mechanics have killed off all the content drivers, so people are just building up their wealth in preparation. Eve players are a resourceful bunch, the changes will come. Most who are upset will still be playing, some will not. Others will become more casual while they look for a more rewarding game to play because CCP is alienating their player base with heavy handed nerfs and not introducing balanced game mechanics. Isk will still continue to be generated by the best method while looking at risk/reward. Even if the isk generation is slowed just a little, without the content generators which cause us to replace lot of expensive things I'm afraid that the average player won't see much benefit. Many carrier and super pilots will just rat a little longer, use other ships and more accounts. I could go on but I am simply repeating thing which have been said over and over in this thread, and if someone doesn't understand what I am saying now, or what has been said on most pages of this thread for the last 50 odd pages, nothing I say now will change it.
Kern Walzky
Tactically Armed Vanguard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1154 - 2017-06-10 11:26:29 UTC
i dont understand why CCP always use the nerf aproach....

if there is issues with capital ratting in sites designed for sub-caps, then fix that by preventing caps to enter and create sites for capitals only and make sure isk income is only slighly higher then subcap sites!?

doing nerfs to rorqual is ok if you also made sure that lets say the industry mode is shorter = less risk or reduce the ammount of Elite Drone AI required to build them also...
that way the risk/reward follow....

Dont Nerf, change the game instead to bring joy and exitement.... Nerfing is just not always the way.
Intaglicia Crow
CAF Industries
Evictus.
#1155 - 2017-06-10 11:29:27 UTC
This is my first forum post ever. So read it CCP.

You broke your own game by introducing Skill Injectors... I had NO issue paying for the game while training to a level (to fly a carrier) to plex an account one day. You were looking for a quick cash input instead of a long term steady investment.. well, at least from my point of few

And now you upset the majority all because of your own mistakes.
MONTYJOHN
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1156 - 2017-06-10 11:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: MONTYJOHN
Sassura wrote:
The top 1% of the top 1% will remain as rich, if not richer than they already are. Their wealth was long established before rorquals and the new fighter mechanics were introduced.

Of course fixing inflation will benefit those who are not considered to be super rich. (Sorry for the pun) However the most recent major game mechanics have killed off all the content drivers, so people are just building up their wealth in preparation. Eve players are a resourceful bunch, the changes will come. Most who are upset will still be playing, some will not. Others will become more casual while they look for a more rewarding game to play because CCP is alienating their player base with heavy handed nerfs and not introducing balanced game mechanics. Isk will still continue to be generated by the best method while looking at risk/reward. Even if the isk generation is slowed just a little, without the content generators which cause us to replace lot of expensive things I'm afraid that the average player won't see much benefit. Many carrier and super pilots will just rat a little longer, use other ships and more accounts. I could go on but I am simply repeating thing which have been said over and over in this thread, and if someone doesn't understand what I am saying now, or what has been said on most pages of this thread for the last 50 odd pages, nothing I say now will change it.



you know at this point though...its not so much even about the nerf anymore its more of taking a stand as a group as players showing just how much we are unhappy with the direction the game is taking.

ccp has ignored the subtle approach many of us have taken over the years and it would seem the only way to make a impact on the company's decisions is to affect the share holders.

you flat out dont just bite the hand that feeds you
Rook Moessus
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Pandemic Horde
#1157 - 2017-06-10 11:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rook Moessus
Shocked
Bridge to Me
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
#1158 - 2017-06-10 11:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Bridge to Me
Hey CCP.

First and foremost, I play this game to PVP.

I don't have anywhere near as much spare time as I used to be able to dedicate to the game, because real life has been kicking my ass lately, so at best I might get say 10-15 hours a week to spend gaming.

Now, I'm a member of a small nullsec sovholding alliance (~500 "members", maybe 100ish real people across multiple timezones). We don't have SRP (it's simply not big enough for that kind of thing) and doctrines tend to be fairly fluid as we respond to different threats.

As with any alliance in this situation, we have various frig, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser and battleship fleets. Along with entosis, counter entosis fleets, etc.

Due to the number of members that may or many not be available at any one time, people also have to take into account there may just be 8 people in fleet, there may be more when coming up with useable doctrines.

Faction ships have often been used, because well, they tend to put out more damage and be more useable in smaller groups.

Since your announcement on the changes to faction battleship BPC drops, the prices of faction battleships have skyrocketed. So now we won't be running a faction BS comp anymore and have to find something else viable to use.

So, new ship comp to buy? Well, you have to make the ISK for that somehow, time to go grind the (for arguments sake) 300m for a ship or two for this new comp.

Now I hate ratting, but okay I'm going to have to go out and do that to pay for some new ships.

The only worse thing than ratting? Doing it with no engagement in the game. So no, I'm not going to go afk rat in a VNI/Ishtar.

Okay, so I'll go sit in a carrier that involves actually playing the game and having to pay complete attention to it at all times, because now thanks to your last changes if you're not paying attention for more than 2 seconds you can have a fighter alpha'd off field.

If I'm lucky, I might make 30m ticks off running havens (before corp tax comes in to play, that's 10%, so I'm actually making 27m every 20 minutes).

At the moment, that means I need (after tax) 12 ticks to make that 300m. That's 240 minutes of ratting, or 4 hours.
That means I now have just 6-11 hours left a week to spend playing games after ratting.

Now, you're saying you want to reduce the damage of light attack fighters by 20%. For arguments sake, let's say that simply means I make 20% less each tick. I've now got a 24m tick before tax, 21.6m tick after tax.

It's now taking me 14 ticks to make that same 300m. That's 280 minutes, or 4 hours and 40 minutes of ratting. Now leaving me between 5h 20m-10h 20m left to play each week instead.

This isn't even taking into account the cost of replacing fighters you loose in the few seconds you have to look away from a screen due to RL, which means it'll take even longer to make that ISK you needed - plus that's before these changes. After fighters get shot at "15% more" I hate to think what that'll do to how many die each time you rat.

So potentially, I end up having to spend almost as much time ratting which I hate, as I do actually being able to do something I enjoy in the game (PVP).

Not to mention that sometimes those ships will end up dying, and you'll have to repeat the process over again to replace it.

At this point it gets seriously tempting to say you know what? Time to ask CCP to refund the remainder of my subscriptions. I'm just going to spend my gaming time playing PUBG instead.
Abadayos
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#1159 - 2017-06-10 11:49:40 UTC
So nerfing fighters due to PvE impacting PvP? Stupid idea, but the solution is already IN the game....wormholes

Now let me lay this out, it's not insane trust me.

A wormhole has different modifiers on your ship when you enter, getting more sever (or beneficial) the higher the class the wormhole is (1-6). Why not have that sort of anomaly effect on things like Sanctums and Havens?

Drop fighter and fighter-bomber damage by 20% (or whatever effect) when in these deadspace pockets (or all deadspace pockets...who cares, it's just an idea). This way Carriers and Supers PvE ISK generating activities are nerfed to whatever you guys want (and can be adjusted as deemed appropriate) but the PvP damage is unchanged or can be changed independently of PvE. This way people won't get annoyed when you destroy their PvP gate camping carriers or super carrier blob due to some PvE transgression that really was the Developers fault in the first place and to punish the player for a Developer screw up...will usually result in this sort of outrage.

just a thought
Jo Kiyoko
Perkone
Caldari State
#1160 - 2017-06-10 12:02:23 UTC
A carrier once killed my blackbird, the multiple logi didn't even had the strength to repair it, i was so pissed that It destroyed my ship so fast and in a cheap manner. I hope you sissy carrier 'pilots' get what coming to you.