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[June] Nullsec Asteroid Cluster and Excavator Drone changes

First post First post
Author
Afropty
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
#401 - 2017-06-02 17:11:47 UTC
elise densi wrote:
Lakutus Borg wrote:
Confesions wrote:


CCP need to understand one thing the "community" pay to play this game "community = the individuals who pay the green dollas to play it now ive got everyone attention excellent.

Rorqual went on field to make the pvpers happy then the market goes to **** then nerf then nerf the nerf for the nerf. So can CCP nerf the nerf that did rorqual nerf ?

So the Question is whats the next nerf


RIP the Rorqual



Next nerf is super ratting 1100%%%



propably already planned


CCP why you just make a rebalance on the ratting, people ratting alot so they wouldnt pay the suscription with real money.....and leave the miners alone.....

Who on the CSM give you this great idea may i know????? CCP Fozzie are you even reading this post??
Afropty
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
#402 - 2017-06-02 17:13:18 UTC
Gallente Citizen 93809614 wrote:
I understand balancing the economy. In order to 'fix' the most underwhelming industrial ship in the game, it was turned into an OP mining platform. Problem is, as the nerfs keep coming in from too many people utilizing it, what about the balance for the pilots? I'm talking about risk vs. reward and return on investment, deploying an 8 billion isk investment for 5 minutes at a time and praying a wormhole gang doesn't roll a hole into your pocket while you can't move.

Give us something back. How about having the Industrial Reconfiguration skill reduce the duration of the Industrial Core by 30 seconds per level, and double the fuel reduction per level to make it even out?


Lord.... are you saying give us something back, come on ........ seriusly???
elise densi
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#403 - 2017-06-02 17:13:42 UTC
seems like devs dont care about playerbase opinions anymore they just swing nerf hammer and let it happen
Afropty
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
#404 - 2017-06-02 17:14:05 UTC
Imagia wrote:
From "This week in Eve"

Watch the amazing video from Adan Dimaloun about the most recent big fight. On June 1, more than 1400 pilots participated in this exciting clash between nullsec alliances. In the end, more than 500 billion ISK got destroyed.

What do you think paid for the 500B isk that got destroyed, and what do you think will pay to replace it.

If CCP want the flashy videos showing super battles then nerfing mining in null sec is not the way to do it.



+100000
Minty Aroma
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#405 - 2017-06-02 17:14:15 UTC
This is a horrible change - EU TZ players will just mine out everything so US TZ players won't be able to mine...
Afropty
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
#406 - 2017-06-02 17:15:37 UTC
Lakutus Borg wrote:
Confesions wrote:


CCP need to understand one thing the "community" pay to play this game "community = the individuals who pay the green dollas to play it now ive got everyone attention excellent.

Rorqual went on field to make the pvpers happy then the market goes to **** then nerf then nerf the nerf for the nerf. So can CCP nerf the nerf that did rorqual nerf ?

So the Question is whats the next nerf


RIP the Rorqual



Next nerf is super ratting 1100%%%


Yeah go and nerf the super ratting, great idea ...... and nerf all ratting stuff as well plz CCP...
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#407 - 2017-06-02 17:20:43 UTC
Afropty wrote:
Lakutus Borg wrote:
Confesions wrote:


CCP need to understand one thing the "community" pay to play this game "community = the individuals who pay the green dollas to play it now ive got everyone attention excellent.

Rorqual went on field to make the pvpers happy then the market goes to **** then nerf then nerf the nerf for the nerf. So can CCP nerf the nerf that did rorqual nerf ?

So the Question is whats the next nerf


RIP the Rorqual



Next nerf is super ratting 1100%%%


Yeah go and nerf the super ratting, great idea ...... and nerf all ratting stuff as well plz CCP...


Best to shut down the servers. That will show the damn goons. They will not be able to recover from that.

PS: I see that censorship brigade is in full swing. Never not **** on your customers.
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#408 - 2017-06-02 17:24:34 UTC
Minty Aroma wrote:
This is a horrible change - EU TZ players will just mine out everything so US TZ players won't be able to mine...

So it's getting too crowded in Delve, right? Why dont you just.. you know.. take a new region?
Oh, sorry, my bad. Just realized you dont have enough combat-capable supers to match the mighty alliance of The Culture.
Minty Aroma
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#409 - 2017-06-02 17:30:05 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Minty Aroma wrote:
This is a horrible change - EU TZ players will just mine out everything so US TZ players won't be able to mine...

So it's getting too crowded in Delve, right? Why dont you just.. you know.. take a new region?
Oh, sorry, my bad. Just realized you dont have enough combat-capable supers to match the mighty alliance of The Culture.


That'll just give US TZ players ****** picks of ore or no belt at all. At least atm US TZ can just reset a half mined anom for good ores, now it's just going to be post-cherry picked anoms or nothing.
Afropty
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
#410 - 2017-06-02 17:33:55 UTC
FearlessLittleToaster
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#411 - 2017-06-02 17:35:30 UTC
So, I'm actually torn on these changes. On the one hand, this basically reads:

"Dear Goons, through incredible investment of time, money, and effort in your space and the coordination required to defend it you have become able to utilize the Rorqual at it's theoretical limit. We did not anticipate this in the design phase, and we waited until many many players were heavily invested before we took steps to fix it. In short, you will now be punished for being very good at being a nullsec alliance. Also, these changes will apparently break the risk/reward calculus for smaller organizations, so they get punished for Goons being good at Nullsec too."

On the other hand, I can absolutely see how Rorquals are gutting the minerals market in their current form. Given that mining is something people from all regions of the game engage in, that is also a huge problem.

But, Fozzie and the rest of the team, here is the central problem you aren't going to fix by nerfing the Rorq into the floor: The Imperium is going to keep using the crap out of these until you reduce their yield below that of a Mackinaw. I already have four characters at max skills, and I already bought the hulls and drones. Until it's crappier than a barge the Rorq will continue to represent the best isk/hour I can earn while folding my laundry. Meanwhile you will render the hull worthless to players in alliances less able to secure their space.

So I get that you are between a rock and a hard place here. Make the Rorq a doorstop again and save the minerals market. Keep the Rorq as the king of mining and watch Goons bury ever poor new player trying to mine with his Venture in highsec.

However, that is assuming that the only variable that can change is Rorqual yield. I know there are lots of other project and priorities, but might it be worth taking a look at mining in a broader scope? Mining is awful as gameplay, especially in highsec. It might make more sense to remove the direct competition between null and high for lowends, and instead make something unique, valuable, and maybe a bit rare spawn there to give something worthwhile to mine.

Think of it like this. Right now everyone mines the same basic ores, weather they have shovels or massive industrial equipment. So we got better industrial equipment and now the guys with shovels are getting crushed. Would it make sense to give the smaller miners occasional targets that are valuable in smaller amounts but require effort to find? That would diversify mining into two different professions, one for massive industrial harvesting through group cohesion and the other much more like a prospector roaming in search of a gold strike. That could be MUCH more interesting for a new player or alpha clone.
Inactive Seller
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#412 - 2017-06-02 17:38:59 UTC
In my humble opinion we need remember some other mining ship exist. Maybe :

* Boost some the exhumer and barges
* Renenber the renters cant change system easily.

All character bazaar done. Finally 39 pilot and 3 can be killed later. This account will be used only for forum interaction, fly safe.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#413 - 2017-06-02 17:46:57 UTC
Minty Aroma wrote:
This is a horrible change - EU TZ players will just mine out everything so US TZ players won't be able to mine...


That's what you get for being a 3rd world nation.
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#414 - 2017-06-02 17:54:35 UTC
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Erick Asmock
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#415 - 2017-06-02 17:55:53 UTC
JonasML wrote:
Namii Chikyuu wrote:
These guys really don't think about the little guys or renter alliances. Now they are going to have to have more space and more space to defend. Not to mention miners rarely just log after a colossal all they are doing is taking a dump on smaller groups. How is any small group going to break into null with these kind of limitations. Instead of all this crap they keep trying they could simply balance the ore composition and there wouldn't be such a massive surplus of low mins that are crashing the markets. I'd much rather have less trit and crap to dump on the market after building caps to sell. I know it seems impossible to have you guys listen to your players that pay and actually do the activities you're nerf batting but dang. CSM brainwashed not willing to look at alternatives is just as bad. looks like it's just going to end up being a ratting for isk game when CCP makes tons more off the multi-box miners but craps all over them. Seems to me they posted record profits by not working and ditching whatever staff that was making good content.


CSM complains plenty, but their Non-Disclosure Agreement prevents them from telling you just how much they complain. CCP largely ignores the CSM feedback (true story!), because the CSM tells them what the players feel and CCP takes the view of most developers, which is "it's our game, not yours".


I think United tried that approach as well.
Tiberius Kai
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#416 - 2017-06-02 18:10:10 UTC
Amber Hurtini wrote:

You look to solve an issue that is not an issue where the true issue issue is with those that are multiboxing and using ISBoxer still to this date.



You do realise using ISboxer is allowed still right? Certain features are banned, using the windows management functions isn't
Now Life
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#417 - 2017-06-02 18:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Now Life
6 months ago CCP gave us a badass mining ships( and very nice drones but bit expensive) who could defend himself and had a proportional isk/h like a capital ratting.
6 moths ago CCP forgot this is EVE

Now they push nerf after nerf down our throats and make a very expensive ship with drones as expensive as a dreadnought hull almost not worth using it


and respawn timers on ore belts : I believe that CCP does not really know what they are doing at industry level in their own game
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#418 - 2017-06-02 18:11:47 UTC
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Xenuria
#419 - 2017-06-02 18:13:12 UTC
Wibla wrote:
Did you panic after seeing the corrected MER numbers, friend?


Methinks much coffee was spat out in an eruption of steamy shock and profound panic.

I have been on the mining fleets, the only bottleneck we had was the fact that most rorqual pilots were too lazy to boost mercoxit minners, so the sites would sit almost empty with 2-4 nodes of the only ore that rorquals cannot mine. Now the bottleneck will be time.

Now if goons can just find a way to benefit from how broken NPC ECM is, that will also get "fixed".
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#420 - 2017-06-02 18:14:55 UTC
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
Nasar Vyron wrote:
TLDR : should have always been Rorq = boost/utility ship, XYZ=micromanaged capital mining vessel. But since CCP felt the need to make the Rorq and actual mining vessel all this has turned into is a bait and switch to the players who invested in them.



I said it before Rorq ever came out. I'll say it again.

The Rorq should have had it's build cost reduced to that of a carrier. It should have only ever had 1 hulk worth of mining capabilities (rigs should not have effected excavators-i was actually against excavators altogether). The Industrial core should have never locked you in place, prevented jumping but not warping. This would have prevented infinite scaling and kept it as a boosting/utility mining vessel.

At the same time they should have released an actual capital mining vessel around the cost of a Dreadnought. This ship would have been given the ability to mine the equivalent of around 5 hulks by use of a single mining laser. Use would have activated a minigame type window where you had to actively guide the laser to keep it centered on the asteroid to successfully mine. Basically the longer the laser is kept centered the higher yield obtained. Which would have prevented the infinite scaling issues we see today while rewarding the individual players who took the time to skill into these ships.

So, that said, at this point the constant nerfing just feels like more and more of a bait and switch to those who skilled into a Rorq. These mistakes in balance and scalability were pointed out before their release but to a deaf ear. Now they are out and constantly getting nefed, and surprise surprise people are upset because you promised them one thing and are constantly taking that away bit by bit.


When does CCP ever listen to the warnings their playerbase gives them about imbalanced stuff?


Sad but true. But that problem stretches further back than the current regime of Devs. It has always been release, then balance no matter the input it seems on what the player base perceives to be the larger problem with a given patch.

Case in point, the initial capital rebalance. Everyone saw the problem with the NSA allowing instalock carriers, but it wasn't changed until after the fact when people were setting up carrier gate camps in most entry systems. Instead they took a second look at things like capital shield extenders and regen numbers. Because regen has totally saved a shield cap in a fight that actually mattered when their hardeners were turned off due to heavy neuting.