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[June] Nullsec Asteroid Cluster and Excavator Drone changes

First post First post
Author
Logan Jakal
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#341 - 2017-06-02 13:55:40 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
If they actually wanted to fix the multiboxing, they would make Excavator drones into Excavator Fighters.


True that. But still, what is going to happen with people multiboxing between 6 and 20 Rorquals ? They are just going to extract and cut the subscription, that's what I would do.

Assuming they actually sub...rather than PLEX...and if they PLEX (because they're earning 200m/hr almost afk) then someone else will use those PLEX anyways....so all I'm hearing is cheap injectors and cheaper PLEX coming?


I only have two accounts and two Rorquals, I PLEX both and I will (probably) maintain my subscription since I can find other ways to make ISKs. The fact is, if I actually was boxing 10+ Rorquals, I would clearly not maintain my subscription with the current bullshit this change looks to be. I'll rather invest in a Super with approx 300 mils per hour rather than sitting at a ****** 100 mills per hour with a Rorqual.
Dusty Meg
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#342 - 2017-06-02 13:58:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dusty Meg
The fact is that this will not actually hurt the larger fleets of rorqs. So we will need to move more but ah well, that is easy enough done with jump drives. Its the new players that the rorqs boost for that will have to move more without jump drives and hope they do not get caught along the way.

The risk vs reward value on rorqs just got soo much worse hurts a lot.

Rorqs were supposed to be a mining fleet booster and have the ability to make some isk itself, yes the original numbers were crazy but its now got to a point the drones are worth sooo much more then they really should be for what they can actually mine.
That or get ride of the movement lock with the core as it now just does not make sense to lock a ship down that can only just mine better then a hulk now.

The fact I may only have 4-6 hours a week to play eve is going to hurt the most with these changes


Naomi Shaishi wrote:
Lol, judging by all the salt over here as well as claims of unsubbing - CCP might actually reach part of their goal - increase the mineral prices a bit which for most are like all time low...

The big miners won't add more rorquals because of the new timers - good!

You decrease the yield and make it harder to strip mine with huge rorqual fleets - individual ore prices might actually go up.


You do realise that we are still well above all time lows for minerals, you obviously do not remember gun-mining and trit being sub 1 isk.

Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#343 - 2017-06-02 14:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Logan Jakal wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
-Guys ! Guys ! We lack players ! What do ?!
-Alpha clones ?
-Cool !
-What about the damn Trillions miners are extracting ?
-Let's nerf excavators for the third time !
-Yeah but what about the multiboxing Rorquals that are going to cut their subscription ?
-Oups...

Next time you guys at CCP will come crying because you are losing players, instead of supporting you, I will just point at you and laugh, because it's all you deserve with that kind of deepshit.

It's funny that miners are arguing both that "the multiboxers are a minority, dont nerf it for the rest of us, this doesn't affect the multiboxers anyways" to "CCP is relying on multiboxing miners to keep afloat, don't nerf their gamestyle"

I mean which is it?!?!?



If they actually wanted to fix the multiboxing, they would make Excavator drones into Excavator Fighters.


True that. But still, what is going to happen with people multiboxing between 6 and 20 Rorquals ? They are just going to extract and cut the subscription, that's what I would do.


Possibly, but since this change actually does not affect them that much, I don't see that happening. This change does not really hurt someone with the right amount of Rorquals in a system. They can run through the Enormous and Colossal all day without any real effect.

The people who are screwed are the off time zone people. Who get the joy of finishing a cherry-picked belt and then don't get the respawn.

It also screws any miner who does not have access to an entire region in which to mine, since heavy mining activity will force them into other activities.

In short, this change helps huge coalitions and multiboxers.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

JonasML
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#344 - 2017-06-02 14:01:31 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
If they actually wanted to fix the multiboxing, they would make Excavator drones into Excavator Fighters.


True that. But still, what is going to happen with people multiboxing between 6 and 20 Rorquals ? They are just going to extract and cut the subscription, that's what I would do.

Assuming they actually sub...rather than PLEX...and if they PLEX (because they're earning 200m/hr almost afk) then someone else will use those PLEX anyways....so all I'm hearing is cheap injectors and cheaper PLEX coming?

PLEX is no differnet then sub. Just because a different person pays for it doesn't change it. If PLEX start to sit on the market and drop lower and lower, fewer people will buy them (lower return for their $20), either way CCP will be losing money.
Tobias Frank
#345 - 2017-06-02 14:02:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.


If only really a few miners are affected by this, why introduce this respawn cooldown at all? Do this tiny group of people have that big economical impact?
HORAE Deteis
WinterFel
Requiem Eternal
#346 - 2017-06-02 14:05:37 UTC
Oops
BUT Fozzy We Are Greedy Buggers - Seroisly no more Hopping from Colossal to another in 5 minutes? Daarn
!!
Blaad Booyashaka
Hotline K162
The Clown Car
#347 - 2017-06-02 14:06:48 UTC
Tobias Frank wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.


If only really a few miners are affected by this, why introduce this respawn cooldown at all? Do this tiny group of people have that big economical impact?

Have you been to Delve recently?
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#348 - 2017-06-02 14:08:46 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
I only have two accounts and two Rorquals, I PLEX both and I will (probably) maintain my subscription since I can find other ways to make ISKs. The fact is, if I actually was boxing 10+ Rorquals, I would clearly not maintain my subscription with the current bullshit this change looks to be. I'll rather invest in a Super with approx 300 mils per hour rather than sitting at a ****** 100 mills per hour with a Rorqual.


So you're now gonna be flying 20b hulls that can't fit PANIC modules?

Also you're aware how different the APM between super ratting and rorq mining is right?

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Karreg AnTan
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#349 - 2017-06-02 14:10:22 UTC
Don't cry, for the next Nerf CCP will trade your Rorqual for a Hulk Hull.
Curant Thanger
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#350 - 2017-06-02 14:12:56 UTC
If you're gonna keep nerfing Rorquals and Excavators, can you make them cheaper? Increase drop rates of those drone AI's, or maybe just nix excavators entirely and turn them into capital strip miners or something, cause lets be honest, no one wants to undock a ship that costs 10bn isk and makes less money than a 3bn isk ratting carrier... Sure the rorqual requires less clicking, but it requires the same level of attentiveness to your screen and intel or it's dead, so what's the difference really.

You're destroying risk vs reward outcomes for rorquals.
JonasML
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#351 - 2017-06-02 14:17:19 UTC
Blaad Booyashaka wrote:
Tobias Frank wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.


If only really a few miners are affected by this, why introduce this respawn cooldown at all? Do this tiny group of people have that big economical impact?

Have you been to Delve recently?


As someone who only recently came to Goons.... yes, we metagame the f**k out of EVE. But that's not going to change. And we are far from being the only alliance doing it. Looking at the economic reports, there are several runners up. This won't actually cause Delve to make any less.
F3d41k1n
CBC Interstellar
Goonswarm Federation
#352 - 2017-06-02 14:18:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks.
We continue to keep a close eye on the impacts of the changes to mining ships that have been made over the past six months. After this observation we have decided that we need to make another intervention to keep the economy healthy. This isn't the first of such changes, and once again it is unlikely to be the last.

In the June release we are making a few targeted changes to Nullsec Asteroid Clusters (the ore anomalies created by the Ore Prospecting Array upgrade) and Excavator drones.

Firstly, we are adding a respawn cooldown to all Asteroid Cluster anomalies. This cooldown scales based on the size of the anomaly:
  • 20 minutes for the Small Asteroid Cluster
  • 1 hour for the Medium Asteroid Cluster
  • 2 hours for the Large Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 4 hours for the Enormous Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 5 hours for the Colossal Asteroid Cluster variants

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.

We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are:
  • About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
  • 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
  • About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
  • 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators


We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


Fozzie you already proved that you are incompetent with your concept of FOZZIE SOV. You ****** up game balance when you made frigates and destroyers stronger than cruisers. Now you trying to **** up rorquals cuz you can't see that GOOD RORQUALS gives capital fights (and a lot of fun). Stop this bullshit policy or you will have much players who will shoot amarr statue again and finally quit the game
Blaad Booyashaka
Hotline K162
The Clown Car
#353 - 2017-06-02 14:23:27 UTC
JonasML wrote:
Blaad Booyashaka wrote:
Tobias Frank wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.


If only really a few miners are affected by this, why introduce this respawn cooldown at all? Do this tiny group of people have that big economical impact?

Have you been to Delve recently?


As someone who only recently came to Goons.... yes, we metagame the f**k out of EVE. But that's not going to change. And we are far from being the only alliance doing it. Looking at the economic reports, there are several runners up. This won't actually cause Delve to make any less.

To be clear: I have nothing against Goons abusing the **** out of CCP mistakes. Actually I admire it. And I know you will just spread a bit more (which I consider a plus) and still mine a **** ton. I was just responding to a guy wondering why a few miners as he put it have that big economical impact.
Suleman Dredger
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2017-06-02 14:25:19 UTC
So who is spamming likes of this post , that's basically all the real players , since appx. 30% are alts . How about a thumbs down here and really see how real players feel , of maybe limit a like to once every 5 hours , or once per account ?
I was away from eve awhile came back when i read all the great new mining stuff - i haven't Rorqual mined a lot , to many times we get camped by a pvp'er whe n i have time to play , and how many nerf's and we going to get ? The multi players just keep adding toons to make their plex quota .... and the rest get .......The market will always self correct , if prices drop , some will mine less , some will mine more , " Trying to control what people do will always end in frustration and failure " - Suleman
GallacticostaR Stevens
Semper-Tyrannis
Shoot First.
#355 - 2017-06-02 14:25:42 UTC
This is just crap updates dont you think? You think you can keep the market healthy like that? Wecan massivley mine 5 collossal belts in a day with just 10 rorqs out there and our 10 alts.
But no you are gonna cut the fun from the game for a lot of players with the excuse to keep the market healthy.
Hildulfr
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#356 - 2017-06-02 14:28:50 UTC
Curant Thanger wrote:
If you're gonna keep nerfing Rorquals and Excavators, can you make them cheaper? Increase drop rates of those drone AI's, or maybe just nix excavators entirely and turn them into capital strip miners or something, cause lets be honest, no one wants to undock a ship that costs 10bn isk and makes less money than a 3bn isk ratting carrier... Sure the rorqual requires less clicking, but it requires the same level of attentiveness to your screen and intel or it's dead, so what's the difference really.

You're destroying risk vs reward outcomes for rorquals.


This is the problem that has kept me out of Rorquals. The cost of the ship and drones is out of proportion to the reward. Maybe it made sense when the Rorquals and Excavators were obscene, but now not even close. I can understand the anomaly nerf as a way to decrease production and even the mining yield reduction, but the speed reduction on the drones is just cruel.
MajkStone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2017-06-02 14:35:01 UTC
Please reduce the time of the Industrial core to match the reduced drone output.

Curant Thanger
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#358 - 2017-06-02 14:35:30 UTC
turning excavators into fighter groups is the best solution, it'll kill multiboxing of rorquals without killing the rorquals themselves, and you could even give rorquals a slight buff... but currently the cost of a rorqual vs the yield of a rorqual is so freakishly out of balance it's disgusting.
Namii Chikyuu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2017-06-02 14:35:38 UTC
These guys really don't think about the little guys or renter alliances. Now they are going to have to have more space and more space to defend. Not to mention miners rarely just log after a colossal all they are doing is taking a dump on smaller groups. How is any small group going to break into null with these kind of limitations. Instead of all this crap they keep trying they could simply balance the ore composition and there wouldn't be such a massive surplus of low mins that are crashing the markets. I'd much rather have less trit and crap to dump on the market after building caps to sell. I know it seems impossible to have you guys listen to your players that pay and actually do the activities you're nerf batting but dang. CSM brainwashed not willing to look at alternatives is just as bad. looks like it's just going to end up being a ratting for isk game when CCP makes tons more off the multi-box miners but craps all over them. Seems to me they posted record profits by not working and ditching whatever staff that was making good content.
Logan Jakal
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#360 - 2017-06-02 14:36:36 UTC
Hildulfr wrote:
Curant Thanger wrote:
If you're gonna keep nerfing Rorquals and Excavators, can you make them cheaper? Increase drop rates of those drone AI's, or maybe just nix excavators entirely and turn them into capital strip miners or something, cause lets be honest, no one wants to undock a ship that costs 10bn isk and makes less money than a 3bn isk ratting carrier... Sure the rorqual requires less clicking, but it requires the same level of attentiveness to your screen and intel or it's dead, so what's the difference really.

You're destroying risk vs reward outcomes for rorquals.


This is the problem that has kept me out of Rorquals. The cost of the ship and drones is out of proportion to the reward. Maybe it made sense when the Rorquals and Excavators were obscene, but now not even close. I can understand the anomaly nerf as a way to decrease production and even the mining yield reduction, but the speed reduction on the drones is just cruel.


To be honest, everything in this nerf is just stupid. What's the point of having between 10 ans 15 billions sieged on grid for the miserable income it will provide after the nerf ? Rorquals are going to lose 50% of their income since you lose 9% yield per excavator and since you have 5 excavators, the last 5% remaining will be lost because of the speed reduction.