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War dec

Author
Magnus Jax
#21 - 2017-06-01 19:21:42 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
LOL - I couldnt care about the war itself just means I go afk until it's dropped.


For someone raging about "lazy easy game play" that's quite the hilarious stance to have. Which probably makes sense since your whole point&post is quite hilarious.
Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2017-06-01 20:00:48 UTC
Wardecs really aren't much more than a minor annoyance.



Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#23 - 2017-06-01 20:03:28 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
So once again VMG have decided to war dec my corp.

Despite their previous attempts without success this is the 5th time they've decced me.

I'm here again asking the question; how is this war mechanic even providing engagement? It does nothing but provide an easy lazy way to play the game.

Surely this part of the game is long overdue an overhaul? From the neut logi's to the way warring is handled.


Actually the system as a mechanic is quite good though a number of improvements could be made, the biggest issue is the lack of anything tangible to fight over, closely followed by what war deckers have turned into in hisec, which is kill farmers around trade hubs, pipes and mission hubs, mostly on the foolish nullsec players who go shopping in hisec and are utterly clueless about war decs..

You obviously moved something shiny and they hope that you will be stupid enough to move that shiny while under a war dec, but as it is five war decs and they have not found out that war decking you is a waste of ISK then they are the stupid ones, so far you have cost them 250m for no gain, well done, keep it up. I happen to have taken your post as laughing at VMG for war decking you again after no kills and wasting their ISK, and I would agree, the target selection of VMG sucks big time.

Perhaps more interesting is to have an alternative location to operate in rather than go AFK, after all you can still play the game and not play their game.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#24 - 2017-06-01 20:11:43 UTC
Move to null sec or wormholes. then your war dec don;t mean ****, not that bloody hard

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2017-06-01 20:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Dracvlad wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
So once again VMG have decided to war dec my corp.

Despite their previous attempts without success this is the 5th time they've decced me.

I'm here again asking the question; how is this war mechanic even providing engagement? It does nothing but provide an easy lazy way to play the game.

Surely this part of the game is long overdue an overhaul? From the neut logi's to the way warring is handled.


Actually the system as a mechanic is quite good though a number of improvements could be made, the biggest issue is the lack of anything tangible to fight over, closely followed by what war deckers have turned into in hisec, which is kill farmers around trade hubs, pipes and mission hubs, mostly on the foolish nullsec players who go shopping in hisec and are utterly clueless about war decs..

You obviously moved something shiny and they hope that you will be stupid enough to move that shiny while under a war dec, but as it is five war decs and they have not found out that war decking you is a waste of ISK then they are the stupid ones, so far you have cost them 250m for no gain, well done, keep it up. I happen to have taken your post as laughing at VMG for war decking you again after no kills and wasting their ISK, and I would agree, the target selection of VMG sucks big time.

Perhaps more interesting is to have an alternative location to operate in rather than go AFK, after all you can still play the game and not play their game.


As far as something tangible. I have first hand knowledge of hiring a group, to shut down several groups of crabs humping rocks for our focused "target" at that time. The idea was to choke out their production and resources. Meanwhile we were "cloaky" grinding their belt ratters and clueless pubbies.

It was a strategic move.

I also have been aware of a group hiring a MERC organization to war dec a competing mining / industrial corp. I have seen this many times.

If I would make a subjective assumption, is that crabs are responsible for most of the war decs. So basically it is the rsik averse crowd sending the MERCs to disrupt the other risk averse crowd for resources and market shares.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#26 - 2017-06-01 20:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Baaldor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
So once again VMG have decided to war dec my corp.

Despite their previous attempts without success this is the 5th time they've decced me.

I'm here again asking the question; how is this war mechanic even providing engagement? It does nothing but provide an easy lazy way to play the game.

Surely this part of the game is long overdue an overhaul? From the neut logi's to the way warring is handled.


Actually the system as a mechanic is quite good though a number of improvements could be made, the biggest issue is the lack of anything tangible to fight over, closely followed by what war deckers have turned into in hisec, which is kill farmers around trade hubs, pipes and mission hubs, mostly on the foolish nullsec players who go shopping in hisec and are utterly clueless about war decs..

You obviously moved something shiny and they hope that you will be stupid enough to move that shiny while under a war dec, but as it is five war decs and they have not found out that war decking you is a waste of ISK then they are the stupid ones, so far you have cost them 250m for no gain, well done, keep it up. I happen to have taken your post as laughing at VMG for war decking you again after no kills and wasting their ISK, and I would agree, the target selection of VMG sucks big time.

Perhaps more interesting is to have an alternative location to operate in rather than go AFK, after all you can still play the game and not play their game.


As far as something tangible. I have first hand knowledge of hiring a group, to shut down several groups of jew bears humping rocks for our focused "target" at that time. The idea was to choke out their production and resources. Meanwhile we were "cloaky" grinding their belt ratters and clueless pubbies.

It was a strategic move.

I also have been aware of a group hiring a MERC organization to war dec a competing mining / industrial corp. I have seen this many times.

If I would make a subjective assumption, is that jew bears are responsible for most of the war decs. So basically it is the rsik averse crowd sending the MERCs to disrupt the other risk averse crowd for resources and market shares.


Well it is possible that this was the reason for the OP's war dec, I don't know anything about his situation to be able to judge as he is posting on an alt.

But moving something shiny was how I got a war dec by Jita huggers and VMG spend a lot of their time between Jita and Amarr and I know quite a few people who got war decks that way. I think you will find that the game in hisec has deteriorated since you last really played, if you look at the killboards of VMG and others most of their kills are on clueless null seccers shopping in the hubs and it is really just killboard farming with no real hunting. The watch list change is a major factor in this, but many mercs, and I am not so sure I can call them mercs now were doing this approach before the watch lists were removed.

Would suggest you check out the Devils Warriors and what they think, it is a quite interesting clash of philosophies too.

EDIT: I got war decked on this basis a fair few times by the way and what I mean by tangible is something that forces a fight, because chasing down these war deckers in the pipes is not especially easy or fun, I found it akin to the kiting Cynabal in null sec picking off the tackle in previous years, fun the first few times but boring as hell after a while. Used to be so and so reported in a Cynabel, so we just plonked some people down keeping tackle close and waited for him to get bored and risk it or that he would chicken out and bugger off, when the tier 3 BC's came out we popped a few with acute amusement. Anyway I hope that gives you an idea just how lame chasing pipe huggers is, it is certainly not fun content.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#27 - 2017-06-01 20:46:30 UTC
i think our killboard says pretty much everything about our current thoughts on empire war
Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2017-06-01 20:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Baaldor
Dracvlad wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
So once again VMG have decided to war dec my corp.

Despite their previous attempts without success this is the 5th time they've decced me.

I'm here again asking the question; how is this war mechanic even providing engagement? It does nothing but provide an easy lazy way to play the game.

Surely this part of the game is long overdue an overhaul? From the neut logi's to the way warring is handled.


Actually the system as a mechanic is quite good though a number of improvements could be made, the biggest issue is the lack of anything tangible to fight over, closely followed by what war deckers have turned into in hisec, which is kill farmers around trade hubs, pipes and mission hubs, mostly on the foolish nullsec players who go shopping in hisec and are utterly clueless about war decs..

You obviously moved something shiny and they hope that you will be stupid enough to move that shiny while under a war dec, but as it is five war decs and they have not found out that war decking you is a waste of ISK then they are the stupid ones, so far you have cost them 250m for no gain, well done, keep it up. I happen to have taken your post as laughing at VMG for war decking you again after no kills and wasting their ISK, and I would agree, the target selection of VMG sucks big time.

Perhaps more interesting is to have an alternative location to operate in rather than go AFK, after all you can still play the game and not play their game.


As far as something tangible. I have first hand knowledge of hiring a group, to shut down several groups of jew bears humping rocks for our focused "target" at that time. The idea was to choke out their production and resources. Meanwhile we were "cloaky" grinding their belt ratters and clueless pubbies.

It was a strategic move.

I also have been aware of a group hiring a MERC organization to war dec a competing mining / industrial corp. I have seen this many times.

If I would make a subjective assumption, is that jew bears are responsible for most of the war decs. So basically it is the rsik averse crowd sending the MERCs to disrupt the other risk averse crowd for resources and market shares.


Well it is possible that this was the reason for the OP's war dec, I don't know anything about his situation to be able to judge as he is posting on an alt.

But moving something shiny was how I got a war dec by Jita huggers and VMG spend a lot of their time between Jita and Amarr and I know quite a few people who got war decks that way. I think you will find that the game in hisec has deteriorated since you last really played, if you look at the killboards of VMG and others most of their kills are on clueless null seccers shopping in the hubs and it is really just killboard farming with no real hunting. The watch list change is a major factor in this, but many mercs, and I am not so sure I can call them mercs now were doing this approach before the watch lists were removed.

Would suggest you check out the Devils Warriors and what they think, it is a quite interesting clash of philosophies too.


As far as Devils, VGM or the reincarnation of Privateers, I could care less to be honest. The popping of clueless null sec bears in hi-sec trade hubs has been and always will be an effective tool in enforcing Darwin's will. Most of your "war fighters" are fairly broke for the most part and never really see them in Hi-sec except for landing a plated disco raven on some oblivious group of bots.
Xianax
Wraithlords
#29 - 2017-06-02 08:54:32 UTC
War decs need to change so that any character that is not involved in the war cannot interact with either side. Basically the removal of neutral logi. I have seen so many hi sec war dec corps that have only a few members and then 20 neutral logi jump on grid as soon as you fight back. Remove neutral logi. They are a plague just like how off grid boosting was.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#30 - 2017-06-02 09:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Xianax wrote:
War decs need to change so that any character that is not involved in the war cannot interact with either side. Basically the removal of neutral logi. I have seen so many hi sec war dec corps that have only a few members and then 20 neutral logi jump on grid as soon as you fight back. Remove neutral logi. They are a plague just like how off grid boosting was.


It is not that I want to be a bit negative about this, but they do go suspect, this attitude of giving up is part of the reason I went back to null, the other was to get involved in the more interesting cap and fleet combat. You Hisec people do not have it in you to organise yourself or others to come in and kill that suspect logi. For me the balance is right in terms of this mechanic, they can be shot now, in the past they could not, it is just that people in hisec in the main cannot organise anything because they are so beaten down or bad at co-operative play. I did see some people in AG who had it in them, but this is down to you to sort out, speak to people and get organised, then kill them.

NB. On Saturday a certain Fort in Romi may be attacked by VMG and others, at which location there is likely to be neutral RR, you could of course turn up ascertain which neutral RR belongs to who and then shoot those that annoy you, sadly I am on a four day jaunt so will miss out on that fun, but you should try it.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2017-06-02 09:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Don't think there will ever be a "fix". Either you have both parties (in a war) interested and they end up having fun in a dedicated conflict that would channel all their resources and time into memorable "good fights"; or you have the "hide and seek" comical situation where most conflict happens on various social media plaforms.

Unless EvE is turned into a dedicated war game (but then it would stop being a sandbox), there's nothing developers can do here because interaction in the game is entirely done by players and, while you can force conflict through mechanical tweaks and gameplay patches, you can't decide or chose for the players.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Hilti Enaka
Assisted Homicide
#32 - 2017-06-02 10:30:58 UTC
Magnus Jax wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
LOL - I couldnt care about the war itself just means I go afk until it's dropped.


For someone raging about "lazy easy game play" that's quite the hilarious stance to have. Which probably makes sense since your whole point&post is quite hilarious.


You do realize you inadvertently agreed with me writing this right?
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2017-06-02 10:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Xianax wrote:
War decs need to change so that any character that is not involved in the war cannot interact with either side. Basically the removal of neutral logi. I have seen so many hi sec war dec corps that have only a few members and then 20 neutral logi jump on grid as soon as you fight back. Remove neutral logi. They are a plague just like how off grid boosting was.



You can remove neutral logi by shooting them with npc corp alts. Those are not even dedicated logi pilots but alts. A "neutral" neut/jam ship can turn off the whole logi chain. Cool

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Omar Alharazaad
Praetorian Cannibals
Cannibal Empire
#34 - 2017-06-02 12:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
Actually, they kinda stop being neutral the moment they start repping.
They become free kills for ANYONE at that point.
Plus, they tend to be a LOT more squishy than whatever it is they are trying to save.
Or you can just jam them with all the falcons ever.
I mean, I guess my point is, that neutral logi can be dealt with MUCH easier than in-house logi, because in house doesn't go suspect when they do their thing.
The dance stays private.
Edited to make words work right.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#35 - 2017-06-02 12:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
I don't see why people stick to high sec and it's BS mechanics rather than live in spaces where they can have the support of allies (null sec) or actually exert some control on space itself (wormholes and controlling access to them). Hell, there are even quiet pockets of low sec off the beaten path with good mining and pve oppurtunities, or barring all that there are high sec islands where war deccers (and gankers etc) don't even go.


High Sec is the place where unaware people play, those 'unaware/too casual for their own good' people attract other people who want to exploit those weaknesses (scammers, gankers, war deccers etc) and the people in the middle (like then OP) get caught up in all that. When will people figure out that the issue isn't war decs (which will never ever work right, they are a flawed solution for more flawed space), The problem is "Mainland" High Sec?
Alaric Faelen
El Ultimo Hombre
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2017-06-02 14:12:48 UTC
Like many game mechanics in Eve, the War Dec system is a good idea badly implemented.

The OP's first mistake is claiming that the only use of the War Dec is the one he dislikes. Of course that isn't the only use of War Decs, it's just the only side of it care bears see. And because it generally goes against solo AFK isk printing, they complain.

It's missing the forest for the trees to cry abuse of a mechanic with war decs as not working as intended, but then abuse the system by remaining forever in high sec, printing risk-free money. Neither system is working as intended- it's just that the only one care bears cry about is the one that inconveniences them. Point out the broken progression of risk vs reward that makes high sec basically free isk and hiding behind NPC cops' skirts- and those same care bears don't see any problem at all.

The short answer is....put down the pacifier, get out of high sec and progress within the game. This not only includes moving more than 5 jumps from where characters spawn, but also developing methods of protecting valuable ships/cargo. In the real world, you might notice that even in 'high sec' (where there are local and federal police) the protection of valuable cargo still falls primarily on the one profiting from it. This is why armored cars deliver cash instead of cops.

Take some responsibility. Protect yourself, or even....dread....fight back. Hire mercs, hire escort, hire 3rd parties to move stuff for you. All these options exist within the game and make use of the game itself to function. Or, just cry to the devs to make it all go away....Roll


That isn't to say that the War Dec mechanic doesn't need an overhaul. It's just not the overhaul care bears want (total safety to farm free isk).
War Decs are a symptom of the larger problem of broken progression and risk vs reward balance in the game. It's also the hallmark of uncreative people that in-game solutions completely elude them and their first thought is to run crying to the devs.
If the rewards in high sec were on par with the risk, then high sec simply wouldn't be profitable and it would take a month to grind the isk to buy a Rifter. Instead the system is so broken that the richest players are those that have probably never even seen a .4 system or below.
Fix THAT, and you fix War Decs without even touching them.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#37 - 2017-06-02 15:23:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Like many game mechanics in Eve, the War Dec system is a good idea badly implemented.

The OP's first mistake is claiming that the only use of the War Dec is the one he dislikes. Of course that isn't the only use of War Decs, it's just the only side of it care bears see. And because it generally goes against solo AFK isk printing, they complain.

It's missing the forest for the trees to cry abuse of a mechanic with war decs as not working as intended, but then abuse the system by remaining forever in high sec, printing risk-free money. Neither system is working as intended- it's just that the only one care bears cry about is the one that inconveniences them. Point out the broken progression of risk vs reward that makes high sec basically free isk and hiding behind NPC cops' skirts- and those same care bears don't see any problem at all.

The short answer is....put down the pacifier, get out of high sec and progress within the game. This not only includes moving more than 5 jumps from where characters spawn, but also developing methods of protecting valuable ships/cargo. In the real world, you might notice that even in 'high sec' (where there are local and federal police) the protection of valuable cargo still falls primarily on the one profiting from it. This is why armored cars deliver cash instead of cops.

Take some responsibility. Protect yourself, or even....dread....fight back. Hire mercs, hire escort, hire 3rd parties to move stuff for you. All these options exist within the game and make use of the game itself to function. Or, just cry to the devs to make it all go away....Roll


That isn't to say that the War Dec mechanic doesn't need an overhaul. It's just not the overhaul care bears want (total safety to farm free isk).
War Decs are a symptom of the larger problem of broken progression and risk vs reward balance in the game. It's also the hallmark of uncreative people that in-game solutions completely elude them and their first thought is to run crying to the devs.
If the rewards in high sec were on par with the risk, then high sec simply wouldn't be profitable and it would take a month to grind the isk to buy a Rifter. Instead the system is so broken that the richest players are those that have probably never even seen a .4 system or below.
Fix THAT, and you fix War Decs without even touching them.


First of all you need to realise that a lot of hisec characters are in fact indy alts of null sec players, I know quite a few who have large indy setups operating with characters who are skilled in indy only and can never fight as they have no skills to PvP.

Next hisec is not safe at all, I have seen people lose billions of ISK in assets in the pipes.

I would also ask you why did you not as Executive Outcomes go after the mercs in hisec who war decked your alliance and blew up some of your ships when in hisec? Not worth it? Well you did answer that you used third parties or out of alliances alts to move your stuff, so it was not worth your while, what your alliance did is what most people do in hisec, I can hardly blame hisec players for doing what us null sec players do can I, and really can you?

I am not trying to directly attack you but want you to think about it, and you are right in one important area, yes some of the richest players in the game are market traders, they never leave certain stations let alone get near lowsec. But trying to say that those people represent the risk reward of hisec is a bit out of kilter and something that people seem to ignore when talking about risk and reward in terms of hisec..

The war dec system is also badly used by people who just want things to shoot at so they blanket war dec, these are meaningless conflicts with neither having any real iron in the fire so to speak and that is why war decs in hisec in the main are a great steaming pile of poo.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Keno Skir
#38 - 2017-06-02 15:50:02 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Like many game mechanics in Eve, the War Dec system is a good idea badly implemented.

The OP's first mistake is claiming that the only use of the War Dec is the one he dislikes. Of course that isn't the only use of War Decs, it's just the only side of it care bears see. And because it generally goes against solo AFK isk printing, they complain.

It's missing the forest for the trees to cry abuse of a mechanic with war decs as not working as intended, but then abuse the system by remaining forever in high sec, printing risk-free money. Neither system is working as intended- it's just that the only one care bears cry about is the one that inconveniences them. Point out the broken progression of risk vs reward that makes high sec basically free isk and hiding behind NPC cops' skirts- and those same care bears don't see any problem at all.

The short answer is....put down the pacifier, get out of high sec and progress within the game. This not only includes moving more than 5 jumps from where characters spawn, but also developing methods of protecting valuable ships/cargo. In the real world, you might notice that even in 'high sec' (where there are local and federal police) the protection of valuable cargo still falls primarily on the one profiting from it. This is why armored cars deliver cash instead of cops.

Take some responsibility. Protect yourself, or even....dread....fight back. Hire mercs, hire escort, hire 3rd parties to move stuff for you. All these options exist within the game and make use of the game itself to function. Or, just cry to the devs to make it all go away....Roll


That isn't to say that the War Dec mechanic doesn't need an overhaul. It's just not the overhaul care bears want (total safety to farm free isk).
War Decs are a symptom of the larger problem of broken progression and risk vs reward balance in the game. It's also the hallmark of uncreative people that in-game solutions completely elude them and their first thought is to run crying to the devs.
If the rewards in high sec were on par with the risk, then high sec simply wouldn't be profitable and it would take a month to grind the isk to buy a Rifter. Instead the system is so broken that the richest players are those that have probably never even seen a .4 system or below.
Fix THAT, and you fix War Decs without even touching them.


First of all you need to realise that a lot of hisec characters are in fact indy alts of null sec players, I know quite a few who have large indy setups operating with characters who are skilled in indy only and can never fight as they have no skills to PvP.

Next hisec is not safe at all, I have seen people lose billions of ISK in assets in the pipes.

I would also ask you why did you not as Executive Outcomes go after the mercs in hisec who war decked your alliance and blew up some of your ships when in hisec? Not worth it? Well you did answer that you used third parties or out of alliances alts to move your stuff, so it was not worth your while, what your alliance did is what most people do in hisec, I can hardly blame hisec players for doing what us null sec players do can I, and really can you?

I am not trying to directly attack you but want you to think about it, and you are right in one important area, yes some of the richest players in the game are market traders, they never leave certain stations let alone get near lowsec. But trying to say that those people represent the risk reward of hisec is a bit out of kilter and something that people seem to ignore when talking about risk and reward in terms of hisec..

The war dec system is also badly used by people who just want things to shoot at so they blanket war dec, these are meaningless conflicts with neither having any real iron in the fire so to speak and that is why war decs in hisec in the main are a great steaming pile of poo.


Alaric makes a really good point there. Strangely i'm also agreeing with some things you say Drac.

I think the really obvious thing here is that Risk vs Reward in hisec is completely broken, you'd have to be a total tool to think it makes sense. There is a choice at a certain level of the game, to either stay in hisec and run incursions / grind LvL4's or to go to nulsec or wormholes and start making real ISK there. The problem being that hisec incursions in a battleship make pretty much the same income as decent high level nulsec anoms in a carrier. One is HUGE risk, one is ALMOST NONE, and yet they provide essentially the same reward financially.

Hisec should be low income, because of how safe it is (yes it is safe, people get ganked because they're stupid not because hisec is dangerous. Also wardecs are easy to avoid).

Yeah think basically, "what Alaric said".. but bonus points to Drac for talking sense in places also.. Pirate
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#39 - 2017-06-02 16:33:44 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Alaric makes a really good point there. Strangely i'm also agreeing with some things you say Drac.

I think the really obvious thing here is that Risk vs Reward in hisec is completely broken, you'd have to be a total tool to think it makes sense. There is a choice at a certain level of the game, to either stay in hisec and run incursions / grind LvL4's or to go to nulsec or wormholes and start making real ISK there. The problem being that hisec incursions in a battleship make pretty much the same income as decent high level nulsec anoms in a carrier. One is HUGE risk, one is ALMOST NONE, and yet they provide essentially the same reward financially.

Hisec should be low income, because of how safe it is (yes it is safe, people get ganked because they're stupid not because hisec is dangerous. Also wardecs are easy to avoid).

Yeah think basically, "what Alaric said".. but bonus points to Drac for talking sense in places also.. Pirate


Incursions are very high return, but only so many spawn at one point in time and if only one spawns that is painful and to be honest they bore me to death, I also found that quite a few null sec players run them, but there are dedicated high sec players.

Level 4's are not that good but that is really a question of how you run them, you blitz and focus on LP and away you go and when you look at burner missions that is a step up as the LP benefit is huge, they are a real gold mine. However the added LP has issues in that people do start to try to go after you in those mission hubs. Because I did not blitz I was not a very good level 4 runner, and never got anywhere near what Jenn did for example. Moving stuff in hisec is dangerous, period, it is a different kind of danger, but you are right if you know what you are doing you can be very safe in hisec. PI was one area where I made a billion each month in hisec with limited exposure to lowsec.

From my perspective hisec is low income, I compare myself to what I get now just VNI ratting with two toons, carriers are too annoying with the fighters coming to a full stop for full BS damage, I hate it, so I VNI rat, that gets me 32m a tick (16m per toon) which is not far off of a single smart bomb ratter, which I leave to people who have less disposable time than me.

I don't know what it is but every time I go to null sec I always end up a lot richer then when I am in hisec.

You have to be careful in comparing the absolute maxed out value of things, which is the issue I have always had with Jenn who is obviously a very good PvE player and tells us that quite often too, but when I was in hisec talking to hisec casual players the majority of them were so much poorer than those in null sec by orders of magnitude.

I tried to save people from being ganked for quite some time, yes there was stupid people, but there was also people who were caught even after every precaution, it was not just the stupid getting caught, the gankers are highly efficient and organised and who are pillaging a player sub set who are often operating alone, many have the only option of just docking up and waiting it out if moving stuff by freighter. Not just stupid, just easy prey...

War decs from the main camp humpers can easily be avoided, I totally agree, the last couple I had I operated with no issues at all, though I had to modify my behaviour, but as I know what their strategies and tactics are it was easy. The people who carry on in main mission hubs, using the pipes and going to the main market hubs when war decked are stupid, you have to do different things and so many don't bother and they are the same who log off when an AFK cloaky camper is in local in null sec. It is an attitude.

Anyway I think the war dec system is not the issue, it is quite good and just needs some improvements, it is peoples situation and attitudes on both sides.

o7

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2017-06-02 16:45:07 UTC
I think everyone could agree that the war-dec system is somewhat broken. There have been MANY threads with some good suggestions. It's a complicated balance, but something needs to change. Having said that, the mechanic is what the mechanic is currently. You have to adapt. There have been some more than helpful suggestions in this thread alone. Any changes that CCP will make will be years in the making. Even though the mechanic is (for lack of a better phrase) poorly implemented it IS somewhat balanced ATM so I doubt it will get priority billing from CCP. You've got to roll with it for now.

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose. Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.