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[June] Nullsec Asteroid Cluster and Excavator Drone changes

First post First post
Author
Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#181 - 2017-06-02 00:23:31 UTC
The MacGirk-Ayrania Make Depletion Great Again ORE Anomaly Act of YC 119 - Sorry, but we've been calling for this long enough that it deserves a proper name.

The idea of respawn timers for the anoms is completely sensible and adds a sense of depletion, which is sorely missing from this game in most areas of ISK and resource faucets. Anoms were never designed for a time with mining rorquals in mind and definitely needed to be changed. Not just in terms of material content, but in terms of respawn rates. You clear cut your forest and it takes some time to grow back. So stop whining and be better stewards of the land.

However, that change was in and of itself sufficient. The addition of a third nerf to excavators is overkill, and makes it harder to determine the outcome from the anomaly change. Why not see where that goes before dumping on excavators and Rorqual once again?
Antal Marius
Allied Operations
Dead Heaven Syndicate
#182 - 2017-06-02 00:24:28 UTC
Stvndog wrote:
WTB new impartial CCP member



WTB indy CCP team-member for CCP Fozzie.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#183 - 2017-06-02 00:24:52 UTC
Antal Marius wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Ktall Daganael wrote:
CCP... your problem is not the rorqual... your problem is the indecent mutiboxing. When a single RL personne can deploy almost 60 rorquals on field... that's your problem. overall, with this nerf, you'll cut about 12% yield (including speed nerf), what do you think all big-alliance-multiboxer-anom-killer rorq pilots will do ? they just gonna add some more rorq. until you nerf it to the point where sp/isk cost vs yield ratio will be so dumb we all mine in exhumer again.

you want to fix this amount of ore we goons mine every month ? find a way to limit (not prevent) multiboxing and then play with that lmit until you're happy with the ecomony and player don't want to kill you too much.



Except that extremely long anom respawns are just going to kill 0.0 mining entirely. You can't add another rorqual to mine an anom that isn't there.



We're just going to see large fleets of rorquals moving from system to system


And thus have more risk of getting caught somehow, and thus introducing more content, thus making EVE a better place for everyone.

Meanwhile my fellow Goons are a little over represented in the crying department. Goons push game mechanics until the absolute limit until CCP sees reason. It's been this way for years, it will be for years to come. Delve has and still will be a liquid ISK printer. The amount of ore being mined since the Rorqual buff is stupid. The amount of caps being built since the Rorqual buff is stupid. Fun, yes. But stupid for the overall health of the game. There's a reason the Thukker array lost its ME bonus as well.

Going out on a limb here, but I'm going to say that CCP has a better top down view of the economy and a much clearer vision of how they think it should be working than any of us ever will. So if they say something needs a nerf to save the economy I'm inclined to believe them.

Also stop shooting the messenger. Just because Fozzie posts these things doesn't mean he's the sole person coming up with this stuff.

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Cali Sazabi
The Deserters
SLYCE Pirates
#184 - 2017-06-02 00:27:44 UTC
I had so many friends spend so much money on plex to skill inject into a rorqual and now your killing the game for them...
Chou Isimazu
Perkone
Caldari State
#185 - 2017-06-02 00:29:23 UTC
Ramagar wrote:
"The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted."

I don't know where you learned your command of the English language or truly understated the impact here.

but what you really should have stated instead of trying to sugar coat the nerf is.

"Every nullsec miner will be negatively impacted."

What poison pill are you going to try and convince us is a candy next.



If you mine in NPC null, you'll won't be effected at all. Also, if you don't have an ihub or any mining upgrades, you'll be fine too. In other words, things will be great in null assuming you are in a system you shouldn't mine in.
xartin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2017-06-02 00:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: xartin
Now don't typically mine the ores but Rorqual mining fleets have been among some of the more fun and social group activities in eve in recent years.

9 years of eve this month.

This stinks for more reasons than having less players have incentive to do social activities in game.

Just going to leave this here
Eerikki Toov
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2017-06-02 00:33:36 UTC
Cali Sazabi wrote:
I had so many friends spend so much money on plex to skill inject into a rorqual and now your killing the game for them...


hahahah this is great Lol
Ion Blacknight
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#188 - 2017-06-02 00:34:57 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
The MacGirk-Ayrania Make Depletion Great Again ORE Anomaly Act of YC 119 - Sorry, but we've been calling for this long enough that it deserves a proper name.

The idea of respawn timers for the anoms is completely sensible and adds a sense of depletion, which is sorely missing from this game in most areas of ISK and resource faucets. Anoms were never designed for a time with mining rorquals in mind and definitely needed to be changed. Not just in terms of material content, but in terms of respawn rates. You clear cut your forest and it takes some time to grow back. So stop whining and be better stewards of the land.

However, that change was in and of itself sufficient. The addition of a third nerf to excavators is overkill, and makes it harder to determine the outcome from the anomaly change. Why not see where that goes before dumping on excavators and Rorqual once again?


Important point. How will you know what effect is being caused by what nerf and how will you adjust accordingly?

War reports: Blacknight active

Abdullah Mozz
Project Valhalla.
The Initiative.
#189 - 2017-06-02 00:35:25 UTC
you totaly right.
CCP don't have a vision. Lets try this then try that. randomly. And let see whats happen and after 1 month nerf the **** 3 times.
So why they change the rules of the game. If we accept it and start playing the game. And spent money and my real life time. So they don`t have the right to change the rules. There job to fix bugs in the game and that`s it.
Let say i came after long hard working day to play eve. I choose mining because i think its fun to me. No ore no fun why i play the game. Then if there no ore anom because of my Time zone. Guess what after 2 to 3 weeks. I will play another game.
CCP Fozzie should be kicked. that's my opinion.

hmmm. Blink

dr poom wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks.
We continue to keep a close eye on the impacts of the changes to mining ships that have been made over the past six months. After this observation we have decided that we need to make another intervention to keep the economy healthy. This isn't the first of such changes, and once again it is unlikely to be the last.

In the June release we are making a few targeted changes to Nullsec Asteroid Clusters (the ore anomalies created by the Ore Prospecting Array upgrade) and Excavator drones.

Firstly, we are adding a respawn cooldown to all Asteroid Cluster anomalies. This cooldown scales based on the size of the anomaly:
  • 20 minutes for the Small Asteroid Cluster
  • 1 hour for the Medium Asteroid Cluster
  • 2 hours for the Large Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 4 hours for the Enormous Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 5 hours for the Colossal Asteroid Cluster variants

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.

We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are:
  • About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
  • 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
  • About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
  • 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators


We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.






Hey folks.
We continue to keep a close eye on the impacts of the changes to mining ships that have been made over the past six months. After this observation we have decided that we need to make another intervention to keep the economy healthy. This isn't the first of such changes, and once again it is unlikely to be the last.



Lets interpret this :

We Really give no ***** about good fights or any issues with the declining player interaction. And We are not making enough Money so We will reduce the yield the Raquel again and then soon you will all buy more injectors and make more accounts to have hulk pilots an we can make more money. Thanks for the continued Purchase of Micro transactions, once this nerf and future mining nerf happen and You all have spent your hard earned money on More Micro transactions we will make the Titan mining so op you'll buy more injectors and make us more thanks for being suckers.


Does that sound right to you all?????????????????????????

Total Bull **** Lets give the Indy guys something that make them happy and them make eve totally void of reasons to fight and then ***** cause the "economy"
Make reasons to fight Make people lose ships and then it will spur the stagnant economy. More fights, bigger fights boost economy when billions get lost. This move is the same effect as laying off workers and stop producing. So then We have no reason to supply and no fights and then the "Economy" of the game will not matter when a better alternative come along for peoples spare time .

leadplayer
050 Holdings
#190 - 2017-06-02 00:36:11 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
I like how the entire 'Eve establishment' flames CCP when they are trying to nerf the only way to earn tens of billions of ISK per hour as one person by semi afk multiboxing tens of Rorquals at the same time. This change is an attempt to reestablish everyone else's interests against 50 richest miners in a handful of richest alliances. Don't mind the flames CCP.



Not at all. This will not change how 1 or 2 super boxers get their ore or how much they mine. They move their Rorq's and Supers in a large strong group from system to system safely and clear the anoms out, or atleast cherry pick them leaving the junk thats left for the everage miner. How will timers or nerfs change that? All this is doing is making it harder for your average mining corp to safely mine in 1 system.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#191 - 2017-06-02 00:39:08 UTC
You finally have people out in space doing things, in a way that means they cannot just instantly warp off the instant a potential threat comes close, so you feel the need to nerf that activity into the ground.

Please add a siege module to Carriers, Supercarriers, and Titans while you are at it, because that's what people will use during your stupid 5-hour downtime. It would be nice to have something else to hunt that doesn't warp off the instant a hostile comes within three jumps.

You have also basically made mining a timezone specific activity. If someone finishes off the colossal and enormous belts (the only ones worth doing in a Rorqual) or cherry-picks them and leaves only the low value rocks, an hour before I log in, I'm totally denied a decent activity during my prime time. At least under the old system, if someone has cherry-picked all the good ore. I can hope to power through the terrible rocks, wait five minutes, and then mine decent ore for the rest of my play session.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Chou Isimazu
Perkone
Caldari State
#192 - 2017-06-02 00:39:17 UTC
Gleb Koskov wrote:
If ore runs out in a system just jump to the next?


In many renter alliances, corps get one system. When that system is mined out now, you'll be done for hours now.

If that rental alliance is mostly funded by corps mining in Rorqs, they will start to get pinched when the Rorq miners start to dry up. Combine that with the moon mining changes and a lot of alliances are going to feeling short on ISK.
Shurdo
Sanity Forgotten
#193 - 2017-06-02 00:39:34 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
The MacGirk-Ayrania Make Depletion Great Again ORE Anomaly Act of YC 119 - Sorry, but we've been calling for this long enough that it deserves a proper name.

The idea of respawn timers for the anoms is completely sensible and adds a sense of depletion, which is sorely missing from this game in most areas of ISK and resource faucets. Anoms were never designed for a time with mining rorquals in mind and definitely needed to be changed. Not just in terms of material content, but in terms of respawn rates. You clear cut your forest and it takes some time to grow back. So stop whining and be better stewards of the land.

However, that change was in and of itself sufficient. The addition of a third nerf to excavators is overkill, and makes it harder to determine the outcome from the anomaly change. Why not see where that goes before dumping on excavators and Rorqual once again?



Maybe CCP should apply the same principle to ratting anoms as they are proposing for the mining anoms. That should provide a more balanced playing field.
Malthuras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2017-06-02 00:39:43 UTC
Yea lets ignore how much content Rorq mining has actually brought to those who mine with them. Lets ignore the fact that it costs about 10b for each rorq. Lets ignore that we (goons) are just too damn good at this game.

Lets just swing the nerf bat harder rather than looking at other avenues.

When in reality all you're doing is murdering miners elsewhere who have spent months trying to get to this point.

I'd say take a step back and look over what you're really doing, but fozzie is dumb so that won't happen.
Tara Read
Doomheim
#195 - 2017-06-02 00:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Cali Sazabi wrote:
I had so many friends spend so much money on plex to skill inject into a rorqual and now your killing the game for them...



Awwww boo hoo. Newsflash everybody injected into a Rorqual and mined like they were the freaking dwarves of Moria. If you RL spend money on Plex that is ones personal preference. No one here is supposed to hold your hand and keep it away from Mommies credit card. Same goes for a knucklehead who credit card swipes into a super and a toon and eats ****. Is it the devs fault for their own choices? Naw.

All this butthurt is because tbh the Rorqual train was just too damn good and you always have a few crazy people who take it to the extreme. I mean originally when you could pull 400+ mil an hour off of ONE Rorqual it was nuts. Now multiply that times 10 to 50. Even with the nerf now the isk per hour is insane once you stack to a certain amount.

Everyone knew something like this was coming. Everyone who has played Eve for a long time knows CCP goes and brings the hammer on new changes then scales them back. This is nothing new. Welcome to Eve Online. Enjoy your stay.
leadplayer
050 Holdings
#196 - 2017-06-02 00:45:01 UTC
Ktall Daganael wrote:
CCP... your problem is not the rorqual... your problem is the indecent mutiboxing. When a single RL personne can deploy almost 60 rorquals on field... that's your problem. overall, with this nerf, you'll cut about 12% yield (including speed nerf), what do you think all big-alliance-multiboxer-anom-killer rorq pilots will do ? they just gonna add some more rorq. until you nerf it to the point where sp/isk cost vs yield ratio will be so dumb we all mine in exhumer again.

you want to fix this amount of ore we goons mine every month ? find a way to limit (not prevent) multiboxing and then play with that lmit until you're happy with the ecomony and player don't want to kill you too much.


They cannot and will not limit multiboxing its less paying accounts. I hate people with 30-60 boxes too, but this is just a sad fact
Raz Keriz
RICARD0
FLEXED OUT
#197 - 2017-06-02 00:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Raz Keriz
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks.
We continue to keep a close eye on the impacts of the changes to mining ships that have been made over the past six months. After this observation we have decided that we need to make another intervention to keep the economy healthy. This isn't the first of such changes, and once again it is unlikely to be the last.

In the June release we are making a few targeted changes to Nullsec Asteroid Clusters (the ore anomalies created by the Ore Prospecting Array upgrade) and Excavator drones.

Firstly, we are adding a respawn cooldown to all Asteroid Cluster anomalies. This cooldown scales based on the size of the anomaly:
  • 20 minutes for the Small Asteroid Cluster
  • 1 hour for the Medium Asteroid Cluster
  • 2 hours for the Large Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 4 hours for the Enormous Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 5 hours for the Colossal Asteroid Cluster variants

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.

We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are:
  • About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
  • 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
  • About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
  • 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators


We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


just nerf yourself plz

#kickFozzie
Erika Mizune
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#198 - 2017-06-02 00:50:49 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
The MacGirk-Ayrania Make Depletion Great Again ORE Anomaly Act of YC 119 - Sorry, but we've been calling for this long enough that it deserves a proper name.

The idea of respawn timers for the anoms is completely sensible and adds a sense of depletion, which is sorely missing from this game in most areas of ISK and resource faucets. Anoms were never designed for a time with mining rorquals in mind and definitely needed to be changed. Not just in terms of material content, but in terms of respawn rates. You clear cut your forest and it takes some time to grow back. So stop whining and be better stewards of the land.

However, that change was in and of itself sufficient. The addition of a third nerf to excavators is overkill, and makes it harder to determine the outcome from the anomaly change. Why not see where that goes before dumping on excavators and Rorqual once again?


Well said

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Le Mittani
Free Ritto
#199 - 2017-06-02 00:59:12 UTC
Really should have just rolledback the rorq rework alltogether
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#200 - 2017-06-02 01:00:00 UTC
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