Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It is a local problem. The issue is not cynos. As the w-space people have pointed out a new connection forming in a wormhole is pretty much like a covert ops cyno. Local does not work the same for everyone. The person in system has a distinct advantage of being warned before the person entering system even loads grid.

And cloaks are 100% only when they are at a secret safe and do nothing. That safety is in essence self-limiting. This has been gone over to death. Cloaks are not safe when you are on the move. Not 100%. And if you are going to lose your space to some AFK cloaky campers, you were never going to hold that space anyways.

Yeah, Mike. He accuses you of intellectual dishonesty because he thinks you're smart enough to understand that the points you make are just whining to push your agenda for safe space.

I, on the other hand, think you're an idiot. You lack the intelligence to understand it and that's why you constantly rehash the same crap that has been logically debunked again and again.
There is no "discussion" with people like you because you are incapable of comprehending the subject matter. All you see is AFK cloaking and you want it gone because it violates your safe space, but you lack the intelligence to understand why AFK cloaking exists in the first place.

You don't get rid of a disease by treating the symptoms, you do it by removing the cause of the symptoms. Otherwise you have accomplished nothing, with different symptoms appearing as time goes on.

And your "local works the same for everyone" is only true so long as you completely disregard the underlying space mechanics. The gameplay mechanics in highsec, lowsec, npc nullsec and sov nullsec differ wildly and AFK cloaking is only "a problem" in sov nullsec. No other kind of space is complaining about it. You know why? Because in highsec nobody can shoot you without consequences and it's already cramped up with neutrals (wardeccers use neutral alts to circumvent local intel) and in lowsec and npc nullsec you find people that aren't victims by default that start crying the moment someone dares look at them.

Spin it all you want, but local in sov nullsec is heavily favoring the space holder, whereas in every other part of space it's more balanced due to the way the underlying space mechanics work.
If you want to reap the rewards of high-risk space, then suck it up and take the high risk instead of wanting to avoid it with every trick possible.
You either get high-risk -> high-reward or non-existential risk -> pathetically low reward. Right now, you have the best of both thanks to local and that's just so unbalanced that it's a really sad joke.

Local is the problem.
Indefinite cloaking can't be a problem beyond mind games, because a cloaker can't do **** while he's cloaked. He has to decloak to do anything at all and is then subject to the same space pewpew as everyone else, in a ship that's inferior to non-covops.

I don't know about you guys but in my systems there was 150 pods in one day popped and that is with in five jumps in most ways, so its always nasty. Most of us don't move in ships any bigger then a Indy or frig/dd these days with all the probes & interdictors out there. They don't just come for you with one interdictor its more like 3 to a gang these days with probe ships. Safe spots get found out so fast these days you don't even have time to get to one to cloak if your working in a BS. Saying that I don't think you should be able to afk cloak for ever but know its a risk to make cloaking to ineffective as well," You just will never get left alone to get anything done in low sec/00". So I hope its keeped in mine people have to work and get things done in sec/00 space to achieve things in the game as goals to do and should be able to have a fair defence against pvpers who don't really care on players doing anything other then getting popped for them as fast as they can get it done. I don't wont cloaking to end up useless so whatever we do keep it useful to attack & doge with. I like probes with dd depth charge attacks to search them out and catch. probes can range them down with in 300km or so and depth bomb them down to uncloak.

I don't see cloaking as game camping this isn't quake," know one wonts a easy pop in eve all the time it just makes the game look stupid.".

This is where you prove how dense you are.

I don't believe AFK cloaking to be a problem, except that it's the only afk thing actually improved by going afk.

Afk should degrade your performance and open you up to greater risk. This is true of everything but camping under a cloak.

SOV nullsec is *supposed* to heavily favor the holder. That's the whole point in holding the space in the first place. It's not just about sticking your name in the autopilot box, it's about actually getting benefits.

Cloaks are a problem, everywhere, anytime they are in use. They are too strong. Afk camping isn't an issue, it should just lead to popped ships if left alone too long, instead of permanently limiting defense strategies to ineffective passive means that tie up multiple accounts 'dealing' with one newbie ship that you managed to sneak into system during the local's down time one night.

You want local's to work for their defense... well, they do. How about you work for your offense too?

I have never said it was game breaking, but FFS at least be honest about it and stop saying local works the same for everyone. It quite clearly does not.

You can avoid the rehashing by not lying. Stop saying it works the same.

And how can it be debunked if you admit it is true.

Here is the strategy for you going forward, stop saying local work the same for everyone. It doesn't.

How does Local work differently between Highsec and Losec?
Highsec and Nullsec?
Losec and Nullsec?

The differences are not between different security states of systems, but between an incumbent and entrant. Mechanically local works the same in HS, LS and NS.

If you are in system already and I jump in you will see me in local before I load grid. That brief span of time will give you more than enough time to warp out before I can land and do anything to you. Hence the incumbent always has the defensive advantage. Always (except w-space where nobody shows in local except by choice).

Edit: Also, Merin's point is that while local is mechanically the same between HS, LS, NS people use them differently in HS than in LS/NS. This is mainly due to other differences in mechanics namely CONCORD. The threat of CONCORD punishment in HS means that you can safely ignore everyone in local unless you under a wardec or maybe worried about suicide gankers.

It does. If you are in one of your systems ratting away it benefits you more than the intruder. Further, add on intel channels and it works even better...for the sov holder.

ok so the point has been proven then, Local works the 'same' for everyone.

So i guess it is only a matter of player strategies and effort as that other guy was saying.