These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Proposal] Wardec tweaks.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-01-20 16:57:14 UTC
I think it's safe to say that the decision from the GMs to allow Wardec evasions is just wrong. Someone on CCPs end needs to slap the GM who made that terrible decision.

Anyways, here's a few tweaks that might fix the problem:

1) Wardecs carry on with all the members of that corp, regardless if they stay or evade. If George was in Generic Corp Alpha when it was wardec'ed, he would still be affected if he quit or joined another corp. His new corp won't be affected by the Wardec, just him as an individual because he was in GCA when the Wardec was initiated.

2) The cost of Wardecs should be cumilative for each wardec'ing corp to prevent permadecs. A week would have to pass before the cumilative cost resets back to original cost.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-01-20 17:58:15 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
I think it's safe to say that the decision from the GMs to allow Wardec evasions is just wrong. Someone on CCPs end needs to slap the GM who made that terrible decision.

Anyways, here's a few tweaks that might fix the problem:

1) Wardecs carry on with all the members of that corp, regardless if they stay or evade. If George was in Generic Corp Alpha when it was wardec'ed, he would still be affected if he quit or joined another corp. His new corp won't be affected by the Wardec, just him as an individual because he was in GCA when the Wardec was initiated.

2) The cost of Wardecs should be cumilative for each wardec'ing corp to prevent permadecs. A week would have to pass before the cumilative cost resets back to original cost.


Sounds pretty fair to me...but isk is easily made...the multipler should be x5 if not x10 (extreme yes but my point needs to be made)

+1 for reasonable balance to be reached.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
D'Tell Annoh
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2012-01-20 23:46:37 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
1) Wardecs carry on with all the members of that corp, regardless if they stay or evade. If George was in Generic Corp Alpha when it was wardec'ed, he would still be affected if he quit or joined another corp. His new corp won't be affected by the Wardec, just him as an individual because he was in GCA when the Wardec was initiated.
Wait, so you're saying that if someone is in a corp and they get wardecced, then they can't drop corp to avoid the war?

I strongly oppose this. There are a lot of corps out there who wardec noob corps, and can continue those wardecs ad infinitum. I'm imagining "Griefer's Inc." deccing "We'll Help You Learn to Play", and then hunting all of their members down mercilessly even after they leave the corp.

No, this rule doesn't fix anything; I can only imagine it increasing suffering in the world. I stand opposed.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-01-20 23:54:39 UTC
D'Tell Annoh wrote:

Wait, so you're saying that if someone is in a corp and they get wardecced, then they can't drop corp to avoid the war?
I strongly oppose this. There are a lot of corps out there who wardec noob corps, and can continue those wardecs ad infinitum. I'm imagining "Griefer's Inc." deccing "We'll Help You Learn to Play", and then hunting all of their members down mercilessly even after they leave the corp.

No, this rule doesn't fix anything; I can only imagine it increasing suffering in the world. I stand opposed.


Stop and consider what you just said.

You join a corp to do what? Be in a corp and do "stuff".

But to be in that corp you must take the risk that goes with it.

If you don't wan't war-decs...you have no business being in that corp.

Those who ditch to evade war-decs are considered cowards in most circles....and honestly if you wantted to do stuff without interfence then have the decency to get an alt and leave it in NPC mode.

There is nothing unfair about this rule change....and I dare say it may solve more problems than not.

It's one thing to park it in a station or not log in.

it's an another to ditch your corp and run off to evade a war dec.

Opposed or not.... if you don't like it..then don't join the corp.

Problem solved.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#5 - 2012-01-21 01:33:09 UTC
No support.
Cowards need to be able to run from a WarDec.
Helps us identify who is and is not reliable.

Nothing clever at this time.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-01-21 01:40:18 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:
No support.
Cowards need to be able to run from a WarDec.
Helps us identify who is and is not reliable.
So you believe all PvP in high sec should be consensual?

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-01-21 01:43:50 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:
No support.
Cowards need to be able to run from a WarDec.
Helps us identify who is and is not reliable.


How is this even releveant to war dec mechanics let alone pvp?

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
D'Tell Annoh
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2012-01-21 18:43:52 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
D'Tell Annoh wrote:

Wait, so you're saying that if someone is in a corp and they get wardecced, then they can't drop corp to avoid the war?

If you don't wan't war-decs...you have no business being in that corp.

Those who ditch to evade war-decs are considered cowards in most circles....and honestly if you wantted to do stuff without interfence then have the decency to get an alt and leave it in NPC mode.

A small corporation is no match for a big one. A noob is no match for an old pro. There is no sport in shooting fish in a barrel.

The player who evaluates a conflict, foresees defeat and avoids it is wise, not a coward.

If you want to have a sustained conflict, wardec a corp larger an older than yours is. Not doing so proves my point.

The entity you are declaring war on is the corporation, not the individuals. If a player leaves, or is kicked from a corporation, they should be free from their old corp's wars.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-01-21 21:06:19 UTC
D'Tell Annoh wrote:

A small corporation is no match for a big one. A noob is no match for an old pro. There is no sport in shooting fish in a barrel.

The player who evaluates a conflict, foresees defeat and avoids it is wise, not a coward.

If you want to have a sustained conflict, wardec a corp larger an older than yours is. Not doing so proves my point.

The entity you are declaring war on is the corporation, not the individuals. If a player leaves, or is kicked from a corporation, they should be free from their old corp's wars.
While we're at it, lets just eliminate ALL PvP in high sec. That's what you really want, isn't it?


Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#10 - 2012-01-21 22:15:36 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
Nick Bison wrote:
No support.
Cowards need to be able to run from a WarDec.
Helps us identify who is and is not reliable.

So you believe all PvP in high sec should be consensual?


I said no such thing.
I just prefer to let cowards run, hide and live with their cowardice.
I have no epeen requirement to hunt down these types.

Nothing clever at this time.
D'Tell Annoh
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2012-01-23 16:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: D'Tell Annoh
Cyprus Black wrote:
D'Tell Annoh wrote:

A small corporation is no match for a big one. A noob is no match for an old pro. There is no sport in shooting fish in a barrel.

The player who evaluates a conflict, foresees defeat and avoids it is wise, not a coward.

If you want to have a sustained conflict, wardec a corp larger an older than yours is. Not doing so proves my point.

The entity you are declaring war on is the corporation, not the individuals. If a player leaves, or is kicked from a corporation, they should be free from their old corp's wars.
While we're at it, lets just eliminate ALL PvP in high sec. That's what you really want, isn't it?

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-01-23 18:04:02 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
I think it's safe to say that the decision from the GMs to allow Wardec evasions is just wrong. Someone on CCPs end needs to slap the GM who made that terrible decision.

Anyways, here's a few tweaks that might fix the problem:

1) Wardecs carry on with all the members of that corp, regardless if they stay or evade. If George was in Generic Corp Alpha when it was wardec'ed, he would still be affected if he quit or joined another corp. His new corp won't be affected by the Wardec, just him as an individual because he was in GCA when the Wardec was initiated.

2) The cost of Wardecs should be cumilative for each wardec'ing corp to prevent permadecs. A week would have to pass before the cumilative cost resets back to original cost.



No to 1. When you war dec a corporation, you are wardeccing a corporation, not an individual person

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-01-23 18:07:07 UTC
D'Tell Annoh wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
D'Tell Annoh wrote:

Wait, so you're saying that if someone is in a corp and they get wardecced, then they can't drop corp to avoid the war?

If you don't wan't war-decs...you have no business being in that corp.

Those who ditch to evade war-decs are considered cowards in most circles....and honestly if you wantted to do stuff without interfence then have the decency to get an alt and leave it in NPC mode.

A small corporation is no match for a big one. A noob is no match for an old pro. There is no sport in shooting fish in a barrel.

The player who evaluates a conflict, foresees defeat and avoids it is wise, not a coward.

If you want to have a sustained conflict, wardec a corp larger an older than yours is. Not doing so proves my point.

The entity you are declaring war on is the corporation, not the individuals. If a player leaves, or is kicked from a corporation, they should be free from their old corp's wars.


If thats the case...you have no business being in a corporation.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-01-23 18:17:00 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
D'Tell Annoh wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
D'Tell Annoh wrote:

Wait, so you're saying that if someone is in a corp and they get wardecced, then they can't drop corp to avoid the war?

If you don't wan't war-decs...you have no business being in that corp.

Those who ditch to evade war-decs are considered cowards in most circles....and honestly if you wantted to do stuff without interfence then have the decency to get an alt and leave it in NPC mode.

A small corporation is no match for a big one. A noob is no match for an old pro. There is no sport in shooting fish in a barrel.

The player who evaluates a conflict, foresees defeat and avoids it is wise, not a coward.

If you want to have a sustained conflict, wardec a corp larger an older than yours is. Not doing so proves my point.

The entity you are declaring war on is the corporation, not the individuals. If a player leaves, or is kicked from a corporation, they should be free from their old corp's wars.


If thats the case...you have no business being in a corporation.



This is EVE Online, you can be in whatever you want.

Now, what you CAN do is this. Leave it up to the players (like everything else in EVE).

If you leave your corp during a Wardec, this should be noted in your Employement history for all to see. Then it will be up to the CEO's of those corps to decide during the interview process, if they want to bring you on.

That way if you see a case where someone has been in a 10 corps but has only left one corp during a war vs someone who has been in 10 corps and has fled 8 during wardecs, you kinda know what this person will do if your corp goes to war.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-01-23 18:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Montevius Williams wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
D'Tell Annoh wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
D'Tell Annoh wrote:

Wait, so you're saying that if someone is in a corp and they get wardecced, then they can't drop corp to avoid the war?

If you don't wan't war-decs...you have no business being in that corp.

Those who ditch to evade war-decs are considered cowards in most circles....and honestly if you wantted to do stuff without interfence then have the decency to get an alt and leave it in NPC mode.

A small corporation is no match for a big one. A noob is no match for an old pro. There is no sport in shooting fish in a barrel.

The player who evaluates a conflict, foresees defeat and avoids it is wise, not a coward.

If you want to have a sustained conflict, wardec a corp larger an older than yours is. Not doing so proves my point.

The entity you are declaring war on is the corporation, not the individuals. If a player leaves, or is kicked from a corporation, they should be free from their old corp's wars.


If thats the case...you have no business being in a corporation.



This is EVE Online, you can be in whatever you want.

Now, what you CAN do is this. Leave it up to the players (like everything else in EVE).

If you leave your corp during a Wardec, this should be noted in your Employement history for all to see. Then it will be up to the CEO's of those corps to decide during the interview process, if they want to bring you on.

That way if you see a case where someone has been in a 10 corps but has only left one corp during a war vs someone who has been in 10 corps and has fled 8 during wardecs, you kinda know what this person will do if your corp goes to war.



Yes...this is EVE Online...and you cannot run from EVE itself.

People seem to think they can play a dark and dangerous game by removnig the risk entirely and getting off scott free.

If that's the case...do not join a corp...hell don't even undock.

There will always been extreme oposistion to both camps...I seek balance between the to.

Corp members who drop to run from war dec should not get a get out of jail free ticket.

If you wish to run...log off...and stay off.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#16 - 2012-01-23 19:34:01 UTC

I would add the caveat that you can NOT join an agressing Wardec corp.

If Corp A decs Corp B, no-one can join Corp A until the wardec is over, or unless Corp B makes the wardec mutual...

This will limit the work-around:

Corp A decs Corp B for week 1.
Corp C decs Corp B for week 2. All gangsta's in Corp A swtich to Corp C.
Corp A decs Corp B for week 3... All gangsta's in Corp C swith back to A....
ad infinitum.

I would also add the caveat, that continuations of the wardec do NOT follow runaway players.
Meaning if Corp A decs Corp B, and John Doe Coward leaves corp B. John Doe Cower is still a target...
After week 1, Corp A continues dec on Corp B, John Doe Cowerd is no longer a target...
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-01-23 19:44:24 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I would add the caveat that you can NOT join an agressing Wardec corp.

If Corp A decs Corp B, no-one can join Corp A until the wardec is over, or unless Corp B makes the wardec mutual...

This will limit the work-around:

Corp A decs Corp B for week 1.
Corp C decs Corp B for week 2. All gangsta's in Corp A swtich to Corp C.
Corp A decs Corp B for week 3... All gangsta's in Corp C swith back to A....
ad infinitum.

I would also add the caveat, that continuations of the wardec do NOT follow runaway players.
Meaning if Corp A decs Corp B, and John Doe Coward leaves corp B. John Doe Cower is still a target...
After week 1, Corp A continues dec on Corp B, John Doe Cowerd is no longer a target...


Works for me.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Akatenshi Xi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-01-23 20:47:34 UTC
War itself is broken really.

Why should newbie corps or alliances be allowed to be war dec'able in the first place? Shouldn't there be a grace period of some sort like a month or so where they could not war dec or be war dec'd just to get their **** together?

And I think that you should not be allowed to drop corp if you are under a war dec, period. The cost of a war dec should go up each time you renew or let the war dec drop and have not waited at least 7 days to renew.
Deus Teragrammaton
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-01-23 23:05:24 UTC
Not supported at all

If this was implemented, it would be a license to grief. Noob corps would get wardecced, they'd leave and still be killed, leading to less people playing this game, cause noobs would leave for greener pastures