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Module Delay Since Returning after F2P

Author
Uthgaard
Because ISK
#1 - 2017-05-23 17:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Uthgaard
I've noticed much worse module delay since returning, that wasn't present when I the game played before it went F2P.

This is mostly a problem when this occurs after a gate cloak. Previously, I could tap align, and immediately tap cloak, and I could rely on that module activating. Now, about half the time the module doesn't activate - no error, but nothing happens. I talked to other players, and learned they had noticed it as well. Then, I even found it addressed in a 2016 youtube video.

This was not the case before 2016 - the game was simply more responsive. The new UI definitely has a degree of bloat to it, so I'm not sure whether that's the culprit, but it's not network related.

Unreliable module activation is particularly dangerous when you fly cloaked ships - you can't make it a practice to double tap every time, because with no cycle time, you risk placing the module on cooldown. So you have this vulnerable 1-2 second delay where you're waiting to see whether the module will activate or not.

I wanted to hear some more thoughts about it from pilots who have been playing for a while (bittervets can skip the condescension, as I'm looking for an actual discussion).
Orin Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-05-23 20:05:33 UTC
I've noticed it too but I could not tell whether it was just me or whether it actually got worse. I'm still not convinced TBH.

It's not just after cloaking either. I've noticed clicking on my modules has had more of a delay than I remember in the past. But I guess I've just been more annoyed about stopping modules and not being able to reuse the module until it stops blinking which takes a variable amount of time.
Uthgaard
Because ISK
#3 - 2017-05-23 20:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Uthgaard
Right, I didn't say it only happened to cloaking modules, I simply used those as an example. It applies to anything you click after coming out of a gate cloak.

Almost all of the ships I fly are cloaked ships, so the rhythm of align-cloak was very well ingrained. I've played since 2012 and have never seen this issue before resubbing this time.

Deactivating a module is a separate topic - while not new, that has gotten worse as well. I've seen afterburners continue on for upward of 10 seconds past cycle competion.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2017-05-23 20:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton
you have to wait till you start moving before you can cloak, too early and nothing activates because you are still cloaked. a lot of the time it is instant, a lot of the time it has a slight delay. been like that forever.

also that video you linked it appears he hit shift to over heat it and double tapped it and it turned the heat on/off. instead of activating heat and then turning the module on. they either have a sticky key that kept shift held down or double tapped too fast and were still holding down on shift.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Uthgaard
Because ISK
#5 - 2017-05-23 23:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Uthgaard
I'm aware how cloaking works, as I said I've been flying cloaked ships since 2012. This is not a question of simply being moving first. Where there was previously a smooth, reliable rhythm to move-then-cloak, every system, every time; there is now an inconsistent failure to recognize that the ship is moving and is no longer under gate cloak.

This cannot be explained away by sticky keys, as it happens with any module, activated by any method.

Let's move away from whether or not it exists, and focus instead on causes and solutions.
Marika Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2017-05-24 06:25:43 UTC
Uthgaard wrote:

Let's move away from whether or not it exists, and focus instead on causes and solutions.

Wait, what?
"I am not convinced this is a thing"
"This is a thing because I say it is, now fix it."
That's... not exactly how it works...
Don Pera Saissore
#7 - 2017-05-24 06:50:10 UTC
Not sure since when but yeah cloak lag is a thing.
Easy way to fix this would be to add a delay to deactivation once active so you could spam the **** out of the cloak on gate decloaks, i think that would be easyer than fixing the server :D
In any case deaths caused by lag are reimbursable just make a ticket.
Magnus Jax
#8 - 2017-05-24 07:50:17 UTC
I've not noticed anything the like and if it were a "thing" then we'd have seen many more posts on the subject, as we haven't it must mean it's not a general issue but more a personal one, either yours or your ISP.

Sounds like a latency or packet loss thing, perhaps the routing from your ISP to CCP is changed and it's being held up somewhere. Do a traceroute to the servers and see if it hops somewhere silly.
Magnus Jax
#9 - 2017-05-24 07:52:16 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
In any case deaths caused by lag are reimbursable just make a ticket.


This is false, it's only reimbursable if it's proven that it's lag on CCP's end. Which it almost never is.
Don Pera Saissore
#10 - 2017-05-24 10:29:31 UTC
Wrong and wrong

Talk more to people and youll learn that its comon

My reimbursement request was never turned down, maybe its difficult for them to determine lag and they just want to close the ticket fast
Uthgaard
Because ISK
#11 - 2017-05-24 12:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Uthgaard
Marika Sunji wrote:
I didn't read anything in this thread except the most recent reply


Magnus Jax wrote:
I didn't either!


Perhaps I set the bar a bit too high by expecting productive discussion from these forums.

Don Pera Saissore wrote:
Wrong and wrong

Talk more to people and youll learn that its comon

My reimbursement request was never turned down, maybe its difficult for them to determine lag and they just want to close the ticket fast


Right. The GM I spoke with just said something something loglite bugreport. But I'm a dev for another MMO and I know that is just going to just join a stack of unsolved mysteries, since it places a huge burden on their team to identify and fix the problem.

My hope was to come here for more clues about exactly what patch it began occurring, and other random insight so I can poke at it, identify the cause myself and hand them a complete solution.

It's the only way it's likely to get fixed.
Beast of Revelations
Multiverse Trading
#12 - 2017-05-24 20:49:51 UTC
This has gotten me killed several times already, and I've lost expensive stuff, expensive cargo, etc. One ganker even messaged me and said "how did I get you with that fit?" (I had advanced cloaking device). I said "stupid lag."

For those who don't know, there is now some lag present that was not there in the past. So when you hit align-cloak, you don't get fast-enough feedback that you've cloaked. Half the time it went through, half the time it didn't. It forces you to hit it again, as you don't see anything happening. Well, if it in fact DID go through the first time, you've now done a 'double tap' and it DECLOAKS you. And the guy just blows you out of the sky.

There's no excuse for this. If the load on the servers, or the code bloat, is so bad at this point that lag is unavoidable, the simple solution is to make it so that if the CLIENT gets the correct orders in time and in the proper sequence (align-cloak for instance), you get instant feedback from the client and are guaranteed to be cloaked irrespective of what the server received and when it received it. Or, fix the damn lag on the servers. I don't care which.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#13 - 2017-05-24 21:15:46 UTC
which is why you wait for the game to respond to your align input before attempting to cloak/activate mods.

I'm something like 99% sure it's been like that for as long as I've been playing. sure many systems are lag free, others will have a roughly one tick delay

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Beast of Revelations
Multiverse Trading
#14 - 2017-05-24 21:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Beast of Revelations
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
which is why you wait for the game to respond to your align input before attempting to cloak/activate mods.


Which is why you actually play the game and test what people are saying before theorycrafting.

Lag in this situation is just a killer. There is no 'wait for the game to respond.' You see, we've tried that too. If you wait, and realize you moved but didn't cloak, by the time you realize that, you are dead.

EDIT: That's another issue that seemed to pop up at the same time - one of your inputs going through (align) but another one not going through (cloak). If neither one went through, that would be better, because (assuming your gate cloak timer didn't run out) at least you'd still be cloaked, and you could just try again.

Quote:
I'm something like 99% sure it's been like that for as long as I've been playing. sure many systems are lag free, others will have a roughly one tick delay


I've been align-cloaking since forever, and have only had this problem relatively recently. Seems like it started happening sometime during the last couple of months.
Magnus Jax
#15 - 2017-05-24 21:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Magnus Jax
Beast of Revelations wrote:
I've been align-cloaking since forever, and have only had this problem relatively recently. Seems like it started happening sometime during the last couple of months.


Uthgaard wrote:
My hope was to come here for more clues about exactly what patch it began occurring, and other random insight so I can poke at it, identify the cause myself and hand them a complete solution.



Been a covert scout since 2006. Worked then, works now. There was an issue with it once, quite a few years ago, which CCP quickly resolved and of course there was the time before TiDi. I never die unless I mess up, got lazy or outplayed OR the system is lagged for obvious reasons (which still means I kinda messed up not accounting for it). Never because of mysterious "module delay".

It's called understanding server ticks, understanding latency and understanding how to work with/around them.


If you have issues then it's not a server/game wide thing otherwise the forums would be awash with people complaining about it, since there's no outcry nor has there been any it's thus not a game wide issue. QED.

That MUST mean it's a local/ISP/routing issue, I'd hope that a dev for an MMO would understand these simple intertube issues.
Uthgaard
Because ISK
#16 - 2017-05-25 02:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Uthgaard
Beast of Revelations wrote:
There is no 'wait for the game to respond.' You see, we've tried that too. If you wait, and realize you moved but didn't cloak, by the time you realize that, you are dead.


Don't bother trying to explain things to trolls who don't want to get it. It's a waste of energy and you can't teach a monkey. It's clear from their post history that they just sit here looking for people to argue with. I guess when you can't win at space pvp, you can try to win at chat. Roll

They can continue to herp and derp all they like. I'm moving on because responding to random forum trolls doesn't help me identify or solve the problem.

Beast of Revelations wrote:
EDIT: That's another issue that seemed to pop up at the same time - one of your inputs going through (align) but another one not going through (cloak). If neither one went through, that would be better, because (assuming your gate cloak timer didn't run out) at least you'd still be cloaked, and you could just try again.

I've been align-cloaking since forever, and have only had this problem relatively recently. Seems like it started happening sometime during the last couple of months.


Yeah. There was never any futzing around with server ticks or any of that nonsense. Was it about the same time that the UI was replaced with unresponsive bloatware?
Beast of Revelations
Multiverse Trading
#17 - 2017-05-25 02:55:22 UTC
Uthgaard wrote:

Was it about the same time that the UI was replaced with unresponsive bloatware?


For me this problem has been around at least a couple of months. How long has the 'unresponsive bloatware' been around?
Uthgaard
Because ISK
#18 - 2017-05-25 03:43:55 UTC
I have no idea. I usually only play this for a month or two each year before I get bored. I know it's within the last year.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#19 - 2017-05-25 10:07:49 UTC
Uthgaard wrote:


Let's move away from whether or not it exists, and focus instead on causes and solutions.


Lol
Orin Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2017-05-25 14:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Orin Solette
Magnus Jax wrote:
Beast of Revelations wrote:
I've been align-cloaking since forever, and have only had this problem relatively recently. Seems like it started happening sometime during the last couple of months.


Uthgaard wrote:
My hope was to come here for more clues about exactly what patch it began occurring, and other random insight so I can poke at it, identify the cause myself and hand them a complete solution.



Been a covert scout since 2006. Worked then, works now. There was an issue with it once, quite a few years ago, which CCP quickly resolved and of course there was the time before TiDi. I never die unless I mess up, got lazy or outplayed OR the system is lagged for obvious reasons (which still means I kinda messed up not accounting for it). Never because of mysterious "module delay".

It's called understanding server ticks, understanding latency and understanding how to work with/around them.


If you have issues then it's not a server/game wide thing otherwise the forums would be awash with people complaining about it, since there's no outcry nor has there been any it's thus not a game wide issue. QED.

That MUST mean it's a local/ISP/routing issue, I'd hope that a dev for an MMO would understand these simple intertube issues.

Better idea - the buttons should work as expected by responding in the correct order if you click them one after another. You've basically explained how you've learned to cope with the problem. That does NOT mean it does not exist.
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