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Crime & Punishment

 
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The stigmas of Eve

Author
Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1 - 2017-05-20 07:52:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
It funny how it's so easy to pass judgement on someone you don't know. Eve, as you all know too well, is full of such stigmas. Too often we paint a picture of what we think or assume someone is based on misinformation, opinion, or a simple lack of knowledge. I have been guilty of this as much as anyone else. For too long I made assumptions on limited or misunderstood information based on my own opinions. When you deal with someone in Eve, we all paint a picture of what we think the other person is..be it appearance or social status. This very disconnection from the truth drives so many in Eve. It's easier to paint a picture of the bad guy than to stop and learn what something or someone truly is. This goes for corps, alliances, and players.

From a certain standpoint, one would see someone who wardecs their corp as some sociopathic, "evil" person. One would assume that the guy trolling in local is some 400lb nerd living in their mothers basement. The truth is, though there may be situations where this assumption is on par, for the most part, it is completely inaccurate.

I have made assumptions on certain people in the past. Some of my dealings with them have been unpleasant, or at least seemed so at the time. I stood strong under a belief that I thought was right, only to learn I was wrong. I can also say I have made assumptions that some people were good people and been equally wrong. I have accepted the revelation that I have been wrong about so many things on so many levels. Those I thought were were good people turned out to be something else. Those I thought were bad people and a scourge on the game have turned out to be really nice people. I have tried to explain this to others. To have them open their minds to the fact they can be just as wrong as I was. Most refuse to listen, confined by their own opinions on what they know little about. After all, it's easier to feel right not knowing than to be proven wrong by knowing. I, for one, am not afraid to admit when I have been wrong..and wrong I have been.

Eve is a unique beast all it's own. It creates friendships while destroying others. It breeds hate for those we don't even know. It opens doors while closing others. The potential of Eve as a means to open new relationships is unprecedented..the potential to create discourse is equally so. I stand in a place of change as I learn what I thought was one way, is the complete opposite. I implore those who stand where I did to open themselves to a new view. Stubborness breeds nothing but discontent.

If you are unwilling to learn facts before passing judgement, that is your prerogative. Just don't make it the problem of other people who should be making their own informed judgements based on fact. Base your judgements on truth and knowledge or keep them to yourself. You know who you are so there's no need to point fingers.

That's all I will say on the matter. You may pass your judgements on me for my rant. You may shiptoast this post if you feel the need. I felt the need to say this, so I did. I can admit when I'm wrong..can you?

...you may commence with the trolling.. Blink

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
#2 - 2017-05-20 08:09:17 UTC
...

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3 - 2017-05-20 08:12:10 UTC
Mortlake wrote:


Don't worry Mort..I still think you look sexeh in that alligator skin speedo...Blink

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
#4 - 2017-05-20 08:17:01 UTC
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Mortlake wrote:


Don't worry Mort..I still think you look sexeh in that alligator skin speedo...Blink


You know it <3

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Black Pedro
Mine.
#5 - 2017-05-20 11:32:09 UTC
Eve is an interesting game. Players can engage with it on multiple levels. Some play Eve Online like the would a first-person shooter, or even a game of chess: in a detached way, where they are controlling pieces or avatars in a virtual world. Others, intentionally or not, insert their complete real-world persona into the virtual universe. The first group play the game and think nothing of shooting another player or inflicting damage on someone else to gain advantage (or as part of some role-play) just like a chess players doesn't consider the emotional ramifications of taking their opponent's pawn. It's part of, no in fact the main point of, the game. The latter group though view their character and assets as themselves and take personal offence to anyone who dares hurt them in the video game exactly as they would in the real-world. They can't imagine why anyone would want to deliberately hurt another person like they just were and go straight to the calls of 'sociopath' and 'psychopath' to explain what happened to them.

Of course, this isn't black and white and there is a gradient between the two extremes where players may fall, and even one player may view some actions as 'in-game' and thus meaningless and part of the fun, and other actions 'real-world' and thus hold them to a different standard and be offended if they fall victim to them. This is made even more complicated by these forums and other forms of communications which can drift between our fictional New Eden personas and our real-world identities.

I agree with you Kaely, it is extremely problematic to try to infer anything about the real-world person playing this video game from their actions or even communications. At best, you would need prolonged and personal contact with another player to start to form an accurate assessment of them and whether you are dealing with a real-world persona or some in-game construct the person is playing. Even then, it probably is impossible to know much about them from how they play the game given there are so many flavours of motivation that get people logging in and doing stuff.

Given all this it takes some maturity and perspective to play Eve in my opinion. I also think that those who see that Eve is just a virtual game world where our 'in-game' actions don't really matter are the ones most likely to stick with and really enjoy the game, but I also think that it is important to remember there is a real human being behind each of those avatars you interact with worthy of the respect and consideration you give any other human being you would personally interact with. By all means shoot, bump, gank, wardec and scam the other avatars all you want since that is the game, but when you communicate with the other human beings behind those avatars act like you would your friends playing a board game. By all means trash-task and tease them, or even forcefully express your displeasure over losing, but don't threaten or personally insult them.

I understand though that this is how I engage with the game and other players are different so I am very reluctant to read much into the character of other players by how they play Eve especially given what I stated above. That's fine with me as I can largely control who I interact with and block or distance myself from those that take the game too seriously, or act in an unpleasant or childish way, or truly are struggling with mental issues in real-life.

It's lame to say, but the best ship in Eve truly is friendship, although a T2 Catalyst comes a close second.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#6 - 2017-05-20 21:31:43 UTC
Love it or hate it, it's human nature at it's finest.

As for opinions, there are no right ones or wrongs ones, nor are there invalid ones.

Like some brilliant mind once said,
Quote:
Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.


And what do people base their opinions onto?
Stuff they either saw or were told of Cool

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
P I R A T
#7 - 2017-05-20 22:26:07 UTC
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
...you may commence with the trolling.. Blink
You're right...

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#8 - 2017-05-20 22:47:57 UTC
My marijuana induced psychosis is telling me this post is meant to be constructive.

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#9 - 2017-05-20 23:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
StonerPhReaK wrote:
My marijuana induced psychosis is telling me this post is meant to be constructive.
Don't hog it, pass it.

Also this is deep for C&P and could turn out to be a decent thread, I approve.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Vipsan Agrippa
Machine Gun Coitus
#10 - 2017-05-21 03:56:19 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
StonerPhReaK wrote:
My marijuana induced psychosis is telling me this post is meant to be constructive.
Don't hog it, pass it.

Also this is deep for C&P and could turn out to be a decent thread, I approve.



F that, Black Pedro turned it into a wall-of-text-codie-circle-jerk.Ugh



I summon the spirit of Norman! ( we know you start your day with a bowl of rice poofs n C&P )

Norman, Norman, Norman make your spirit known!


Atari we know you are there.

Join the C & P community spirit of Saeger, tell us what you feel about Fredo Taniss moving over to your bestest buds in Venbedwettas??

*my cpu table rises as the lights go out*


All I hear is: Green kill boards sads - rabies - pill popping - I'm not a bitter vet, just think your blue donut is gay, might as well be a blue waffle - Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back - Fredo is nuthin to me now *childs crying*
  • Fk Bob Praise Kek! -

They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Alliances will rise and fall, but one constant in Eve is the smouldering dumpster that is C & P.

(Bob's a cuck)

Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium.
#11 - 2017-05-21 04:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
Vipsan Agrippa wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
StonerPhReaK wrote:
My marijuana induced psychosis is telling me this post is meant to be constructive.
Don't hog it, pass it.

Also this is deep for C&P and could turn out to be a decent thread, I approve.



F that, Black Pedro turned it into a wall-of-text-codie-circle-jerk.Ugh



I summon the spirit of Norman! ( we know you start your day with a bowl of rice poofs n C&P )

Norman, Norman, Norman make your spirit known!


Atari we know you are there.

Join the C & P community spirit of Saeger, tell us what you feel about Fredo Taniss moving over to your bestest buds in Venbedwettas??

*my cpu table rises as the lights go out*


All I hear is: Green kill boards sads - rabies - pill popping - I'm not a bitter vet, just think your blue donut is gay, might as well be a blue waffle - Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back - Fredo is nuthin to me now *childs crying*


Vipsan..I knew you couldn't resist..besides, in order to be bitter, you have to be a vet...and yes, I know who you are..still doesn't change my statement. A little advice, if you're going to try to troll me..you're gonna have to think of something better..if you can. I think it's best that you step away from the bong now.. Blink

@DOM..that's exactly my point..most opinion is based on what someone has heard rather than learned. It's based on ignorance rather than knowledge. It's based on fear...fear to be wrong and look bad to others for admitting it. Which do you fear more..the fact you may be wrong..or the stigma that will be placed upon you by others once you admit it? Difference is, I don't care nor do I seek the approval of other people. Mark my words..and you know I have been right about a lot of things..there will come a day when you will recognize the error and no longer care what others think. That will be the day you're finally free. The question is, what damage will have been done before you reach that realization..

I know you understand what it's like to be ridiculed by players who disagree with what you do in CODE...you are doing nothing different than those who have placed accusation and assumption upon you.

@Tora..lol..that is so cute. Lol My Mother-in-Law has an eclectus that when ever you call her name or stare at her, she yells "What!?"

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#12 - 2017-05-21 05:50:44 UTC
I find the lack of trolling in this thread to be disturbing.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
#13 - 2017-05-21 05:59:23 UTC
Player and character separation is critical, IMO.
Omar is an honorable *******.
He does awful things, but he sticks to his word.
In terms of Pathfinder or D&D he would be considered Lawful Evil.
Now, the guy who drives Omar isn't nearly the same. This guy he's pretty much Neutral Good, but tired of most peoples' **** at the same time... the inexorable push towards true neutrality continues every day. Life is kind of a *****, crap happens, idiots rise above the diligent... these kind of stresses weigh down on almost all of us. The guy who drives Omar sublimates this by putting himself into a role that is outside of his normal comfort zone.
Catharsis is achieved.
The ruination of another person's day may be satisfying one day, the vindication of a set of principles operating as intended may be satisfying the next.
Either way, it's a game where we try to find enjoyment in whatever way we can. The fact is that in order for this not to be simple digital masturbation we must engage other people.
How we do so is up to us.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Eve Griefer
Carebear Reeducation Institute
#14 - 2017-05-21 08:24:31 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Others, intentionally or not, insert their complete real-world persona into the virtual universe.


FWIW, I've seen suggestions, if not actual evidence, that the insertion of the RL persona into the virtual character/avatar/toon is unintentional. Whether in EvE, WoW, or Second Life, I've seen people get unreasonably (IMHO) angry over actions taken against their character.

I'd like to play EvE without the niggling doubt that my actions against another player's character might be taken as an attack against the player.

The longer I'm in EvE, the more I learn that the propaganda is just, well, propaganda. That there are no evil alliances trying to wreck one's game.

Lew Dicrous
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2017-05-21 10:36:42 UTC
You're a stigma.

It burns when I PVP

Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium.
#16 - 2017-05-21 11:12:47 UTC
Lew Dicrous wrote:
You're a stigma.


Do elaborate..

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#17 - 2017-05-21 11:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
It is rather amusing, the other day I was wondering whether some of my alliance mates would be interested in the events in Romi, so I said who has a thing against hisec mercs or something like that, to have one guy start sprouting off on me about it being a perfectly valid game play, missing the point completely in which another chap saw it as I did as merely being a way of getting some dank killmails on people who are normally difficult to pin down. I was laughing at the diatribe thrown at me by the first guy just because previously he and I had talked about bumping as a mechanic. Not that I seek out such conversations in alliance as it causes drama.

And to last night, one of the guys starts sounding off on AFK cloaky camping, and in jumps a corp mate who reveals in it because as he put it he likes to upset people and then self declares himself as a sociopath, which to me was as defensive as hell, but he did admit to enjoying causing angst on people and why not, it is a competitive game and in affect making the other person feel defeated is almost as much fun as defeating them. For example for the moment I am rather enjoying the afterglow of our successful defence following a 36 hour ultimatum to leave our space from the best alliance in the game, who are now declaring that it was not a real attempt and only a few people were involved, etc. I am not of course saying they cold not do it, but the will was not there. I am enjoying his deflation as a person more than anything else and there is nothing wrong in that.

What I replied to that person was that as an old player with billions and so much assets and multiple skilled toons some idiot AFK cloaky camping means I either use another toon elsewhere, jump systems or go play another game or just rat in somethings really hard to catch to kill small stuff to keep the ADM's up, so much for causing me angst, it only affects new players, sadly my wife was shouting at me to head up for shut eye, otherwise I would have told him that he was not a sociopath but he was enjoying the game his way and my difference was merely that those small guys trying to scrape together some ISK to pay for their subs was not high up my list of people to test myself out on. I did however make the point that what he does reduces content as they don't have the ability to form for lols as they are space poor.

Anyway what I just wrote there is going to be misunderstood by so many who are so quick to label others, but the last time I tried to discuss this with one HTFU guy I was told that I don't get Eve, which to me was really that I don't get how he wants to play Eve which was the correct answer from him, but in affect I did understand because I had asked him and he had replied on what made him tick and I saw nothing wrong with that.

Anyway have fun, it is the important part, but I leave one simple thought, for me it is all about game balance and some people get rather emotional about that...

NB: I have read this forum since June 2009 and I cannot actually remember a single time where I found anything Mike Adoulin has posted as remotely funny or relevant, if any of the fine people here could point me to a funny post by said person I would be extremely grateful.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
CODE.
#18 - 2017-05-21 13:27:29 UTC
*runs laps on the hamster wheel*

Straight

*runs more laps*

What?

I like pizza. With pineapple on it. Tastes nice and juicy.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#19 - 2017-05-21 14:06:45 UTC
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Vipsan Agrippa wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
StonerPhReaK wrote:
My marijuana induced psychosis is telling me this post is meant to be constructive.
Don't hog it, pass it.

Also this is deep for C&P and could turn out to be a decent thread, I approve.



F that, Black Pedro turned it into a wall-of-text-codie-circle-jerk.Ugh



I summon the spirit of Norman! ( we know you start your day with a bowl of rice poofs n C&P )

Norman, Norman, Norman make your spirit known!


Atari we know you are there.

Join the C & P community spirit of Saeger, tell us what you feel about Fredo Taniss moving over to your bestest buds in Venbedwettas??

*my cpu table rises as the lights go out*


All I hear is: Green kill boards sads - rabies - pill popping - I'm not a bitter vet, just think your blue donut is gay, might as well be a blue waffle - Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back - Fredo is nuthin to me now *childs crying*


Vipsan..I knew you couldn't resist..besides, in order to be bitter, you have to be a vet...and yes, I know who you are..still doesn't change my statement. A little advice, if you're going to try to troll me..you're gonna have to think of something better..if you can. I think it's best that you step away from the bong now.. Blink

@DOM..that's exactly my point..most opinion is based on what someone has heard rather than learned. It's based on ignorance rather than knowledge. It's based on fear...fear to be wrong and look bad to others for admitting it. Which do you fear more..the fact you may be wrong..or the stigma that will be placed upon you by others once you admit it? Difference is, I don't care nor do I seek the approval of other people. Mark my words..and you know I have been right about a lot of things..there will come a day when you will recognize the error and no longer care what others think. That will be the day you're finally free. The question is, what damage will have been done before you reach that realization..

I know you understand what it's like to be ridiculed by players who disagree with what you do in CODE...you are doing nothing different than those who have placed accusation and assumption upon you.

@Tora..lol..that is so cute. Lol My Mother-in-Law has an eclectus that when ever you call her name or stare at her, she yells "What!?"

opinions are never wrong Kaely, no matter what they're based on. they change based on perception.
the only thing that's right is a fact. they don't change unless another fact changes it.

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#20 - 2017-05-21 15:14:15 UTC
Lew Dicrous wrote:
You're a stigma.

Your mums a stigma

(Sorry couldn't help it Big smile)

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

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