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Noctis needs a bigger hold

First post
Author
Brigadine Ferathine
506 Irregulars
#1 - 2017-05-20 03:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Brigadine Ferathine
The Porpise uses the same hull and with max skills can carry just under 61,000 m3. Why on earth is the noctis limited to a few hundred? It is a salvaging ship. It should be able to carry a Havens worth of loot, salvage and an mtu instead it can only carry 1/3 of that. Dumb. It really is a useless ship. The bonuses aren't really worth the cost. I can just go out in a catalyst and use it like a noctis and it targets things better. CCP please fix.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#2 - 2017-05-20 03:27:52 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
The Porpise uses the same hull and with max skills can carry just under 61,000 m3. Why on earth is the noctis limited to a few hundred? It is a salvaging ship. It should be able to carry a Havens worth of loot, salvage and an mtu instead it can only carry 1/3 of that. Dumb. It really is a useless ship. The bonuses aren't really worth the cost. I can just go out in a catalyst and use it like a noctis and it targets things better. CCP please fix.

LOL NO!Roll

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Brigadine Ferathine
506 Irregulars
#3 - 2017-05-20 03:31:55 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
The Porpise uses the same hull and with max skills can carry just under 61,000 m3. Why on earth is the noctis limited to a few hundred? It is a salvaging ship. It should be able to carry a Havens worth of loot, salvage and an mtu instead it can only carry 1/3 of that. Dumb. It really is a useless ship. The bonuses aren't really worth the cost. I can just go out in a catalyst and use it like a noctis and it targets things better. CCP please fix.

LOL NO!Roll

Care to elaborate?
Xianax
Chemikals
Almost Underdogs
#4 - 2017-05-20 05:58:01 UTC
My Noctis has about 4500 m3 of space. I can run 5-6 level 4 missions and still not be full.
Brigadine Ferathine
506 Irregulars
#5 - 2017-05-20 06:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Brigadine Ferathine
Xianax wrote:
My Noctis has about 4500 m3 of space. I can run 5-6 level 4 missions and still not be full.

uh what? That is not mathematically possible. It only has 3 low slots for expanders...
Alhira Katserna
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2017-05-20 06:53:02 UTC
Yes and 3 rig slots in which Medium Cargohold Optimization can fit. Noctis has 4602m³ space with 3 Expanded Cargoholds and 3 rigs.
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#7 - 2017-05-20 08:00:22 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
The Porpise uses the same hull and with max skills can carry just under 61,000 m3. Why on earth is the noctis limited to a few hundred? It is a salvaging ship. It should be able to carry a Havens worth of loot, salvage and an mtu instead it can only carry 1/3 of that. Dumb. It really is a useless ship. The bonuses aren't really worth the cost. I can just go out in a catalyst and use it like a noctis and it targets things better. CCP please fix.


No.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#8 - 2017-05-20 08:07:17 UTC
I support this. Imagine the wailing when a Noctis with a 20k cargohold full of loot and salvage blows up. And it's all the fault of the nasty gankers attacking defenseless and innocent ships.

Remove standings and insurance.

Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
#9 - 2017-05-20 08:44:39 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
I support this. Imagine the wailing when a Noctis with a 20k cargohold full of loot and salvage blows up. And it's all the fault of the nasty gankers attacking defenseless and innocent ships.


Me too, Je supporte le coq.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#10 - 2017-05-20 08:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.

The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Dotaros Kolar
Doomheim
#11 - 2017-05-20 14:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dotaros Kolar
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
I support this. Imagine the wailing when a Noctis with a 20k cargohold full of loot and salvage blows up. And it's all the fault of the nasty gankers attacking defenseless and innocent ships.


It's not?

The gankers should not be allowed to live their strange hobby in high sec.....so they have to be punished.....i do not see why this is to discuss,this opinion has no alternative....

Just leave non pvp people alone...it's not THAT hard....
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#12 - 2017-05-20 15:17:04 UTC
Dotaros Kolar wrote:


Just leave non pvp people alone...it's not THAT hard....
Sadly its the non pvp people who are really pvp people that are the problem. Pvp is more than ship on ship combat. If you don't want to pvp go play on the test server where all pvp is purely consensual. Of course anything you accomplish on the test server is also worthless.

If I can't shoot your ship, then you shouldn't be able to undercut my market orders.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'

Brigadine Ferathine
506 Irregulars
#13 - 2017-05-20 17:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Brigadine Ferathine
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.

The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine.

I didn't say I looted with the dessy. I loot in a different ship. Why bother using the noctis? I have to change ships 3 times to clear a site anyway. Ratting ship ---> looting ship---->salvaging ship.
Dotaros Kolar
Doomheim
#14 - 2017-05-20 17:16:08 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Dotaros Kolar wrote:


Just leave non pvp people alone...it's not THAT hard....
Sadly its the non pvp people who are really pvp people that are the problem. Pvp is more than ship on ship combat. If you don't want to pvp go play on the test server where all pvp is purely consensual. Of course anything you accomplish on the test server is also worthless.

If I can't shoot your ship, then you shouldn't be able to undercut my market orders.


Disturbing a game via unwanted pvp and disturbing your market orders are two completely different things......

Number 1 is an act of agression that harasses the victim ,as it forces the victim in something it don't want,number 2 is just money loss and so not relevant...

Don't compare apples with pears
Brigadine Ferathine
506 Irregulars
#15 - 2017-05-20 17:21:19 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.

The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine.

My point is that propulsion systems, life support, power generation and all other basic ship systems that that porpise has can fit inside the same shell. The shell makes it the same ship. There is clearly internal volume for more. the additional medium hardpoints do not take up 58,000 m3 of INTERNAL space. Does the noctis have that much wasted room within the bulkheads?
Bjorn Tyrson
Decompression Theory
Digital Vendetta
#16 - 2017-05-20 17:26:46 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.

The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine.


And yet. Salvage dessies are still widely considered to be the better and safer option. So clearly the noctis has failed in its intended purpose.

Personally my issue isn't with the cargo bay size itself. Rather the balance between cargo, align time, and tank. A salvage cane has more tank, better align time, and if fit for cargo a comparable hold. A salvage dessie might have less tank, but aligns much faster and costs a fraction as much.

The only place I ever see the noctis get used is HS level 4s and even there it only barely justifies it's price tag. So clearly the ship is in need of some sort of rebalancing.
Bjorn Tyrson
Decompression Theory
Digital Vendetta
#17 - 2017-05-20 17:30:57 UTC
Dotaros Kolar wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Dotaros Kolar wrote:


Just leave non pvp people alone...it's not THAT hard....
Sadly its the non pvp people who are really pvp people that are the problem. Pvp is more than ship on ship combat. If you don't want to pvp go play on the test server where all pvp is purely consensual. Of course anything you accomplish on the test server is also worthless.

If I can't shoot your ship, then you shouldn't be able to undercut my market orders.


Disturbing a game via unwanted pvp and disturbing your market orders are two completely different things......

Number 1 is an act of agression that harasses the victim ,as it forces the victim in something it don't want,number 2 is just money loss and so not relevant...

Don't compare apples with pears


Loosing a ship to unexpected pvp is just a loss of time and isk as well. So the comparison is perfectly apt.
The big difference is that if I loose a ship I can quickly and easily buy a new one. People constantly undercutting my orders however disrupts my cash flow. Which affects every aspect of my game play. Making it a much more aggressive act
mkint
#18 - 2017-05-20 17:42:12 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:

The only place I ever see the noctis get used is HS level 4s and even there it only barely justifies it's price tag. So clearly the ship is in need of some sort of rebalancing.

That's not a point of balance. Cost of highsec PVE (along with certain other parts of the game) is not an investment, it's a barrier to entry. A noctis could cost a billion isk, and as long as it makes you 1 extra isk per second, it will pay for itself over a long enough timeline given that risk of loss is essentially zero.

Should the noctis be rebalanced? Everything is worth consideration, but the answer is probably no, it does not. There might be room for a destroyer sized version that is more along the lines of existing salvage dessies (e.g. dessie sized cargo and mobility, 8 highs, bonus to salvaging but not tractors.) But the noctis itself is probably fine.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#19 - 2017-05-20 18:06:18 UTC
Dotaros Kolar wrote:



Disturbing a game via unwanted pvp and disturbing your market orders are two completely different things......
Both are pvp. If you don't want people to be able to shoot your ships, then I don't want people to be able to undercut my market orders. Also you shouldn't be able to earn any LP as that reduces my profits as well.

Dotaros Kolar wrote:
Number 1 is an act of agression that harasses the victim ,as it forces the victim in something it don't want,number 2 is just money loss and so not relevant...
If someone is harassing you file a support ticket. Blowing up spaceships in a game about blowing up spaceships is no more forcing someone to do something they don't want, than if I shoot you in a FPS game.

Oh and undercutting my market orders forces me to have to update my own orders, something I don't want to have to do.

If you don't want pvp go play on the test server where no-one can bother you.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'

Brigadine Ferathine
506 Irregulars
#20 - 2017-05-20 20:02:40 UTC
This has strayed so far away from the original post ISD please save us.
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