These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Ramble/Rant] Understanding belief, reality and the Tribes.

Author
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2017-05-17 16:43:04 UTC
After all this idiocy with Napkins, I might just ask to hide in the damned sack.
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#42 - 2017-05-17 17:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
It's okay, I can't expect better from southerners now, can I? Needing above freezing temperatures for some quality naked time, tsk tsk.

Also, what's a bonfire to do against howling winter winds especially once we start leaving steepes territory into mountain territory? North Mikramurka doesn't even have a summer.

I believe even snow-eater country gets non-windy days. And they are quite nuts with the "watch me ignore cold" bravado (while obviously also being the masters of staying safe in it with proper equipment - the logic of these things is funny sometimes).

The thing about planets is that they are huge, so things vary. And they got weather, and seasons. Unlike stations, you can't just say this place is like that, it's got snow and howling winds. Because even if it does, most days, some days it does not.

That said, I suppose actual southerners would claim we don't have summers either. Having seen other places, I describe Rhiannon to have four seasons, all of which suck.


Considering that my family home is inside a starship hulk superstructure, sand barriers and underground complexes surrounded by kilometers upon kilometers of regolith, we learnt very early on that one does not tempt death with environmental hazards. Who wants their name to end up in the Remembrance Hall with cause of death being, "Ran around outside naked."

So the idea that some moron would run around naked in the Mikramurka steppes or mountains makes me want to hurl.

Well, as I understand it, the further north and the higher ones go, the more of a default state 'howling winds' become.

As for 'masters of staying safe in it' part, well, lots of practice and many other people's deaths to learn from. It's kinda how so many of us ended up being good with engineering. Have to come up with ways to survive eaten by snow when outside on long hunting expeditions during the long night and being able to sleep without freezing to death or just finding/growing food in general, you know?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#43 - 2017-05-17 17:30:10 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
So the idea that some moron would run around naked in the Mikramurka steppes or mountains makes me want to hurl.

Yea well, snow-eaters are crazy, you know. You more or less have to be, to live where they do, no?

I confess we soft southerners do dress up even during midyear, if the weather so dictates. But it's nicer if people can go in light gear and show off tattoos, of course.
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
#44 - 2017-05-17 17:41:14 UTC
The simplest of clothes and a knife is all you need to survive even the worst of storms up there for a good while, and the most basic of gear will extend that to 'the entire winter season' if you know what you're doing. I don't really understand what kind of backwater would find any of that difficult. You'd have to go millennia into the pre Day of Darkness past for tech to be so bad that basic survival up north would be even difficult.

I mean, however much I make fun of the southerners I'm willing to bet I could throw Elsebeth a basic kit and dump her out of a skimmer up north and she'd be just fine. Liable to kill me on sight, but fine.

You seem to have made a fetish out of knucklewalking primitiveness, Elmund, but the rest of us do live in the modern world. Spirits below, our infrastructure and basic tech levels on Matar tends to be even higher than the other nations, simply because we built almost all the infrastructure and settlements so very recently, instead of maintaining and endlessly updating much older infrastructure and settlement.

So some of us enjoy taking on Matar's cold plains and mountains with a bit of challenge thrown in, but it's hardly all that difficult to do it in pretty much perfect safety.
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#45 - 2017-05-17 17:53:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
It is one thing to survive alone out in a hazardous environment and another to build a proper settlement with a growing population that lasts for many, many generations. Especially in a region where potable water is something you might have to boil in a pot, which requires fuel sources that are itself not very flammable unless specially prepared. And the soil being especially hard to farm because of general infertility and how few crop plants actually can handle environments like these. Oh, and let's not forget that density of wildlife is pretty low for most parts, what can be hunted generally migrates in herds or packs, and there's plently of competition to go around. And the 'little wind' has a very nasty habit of killing people off via hypothermia. I'm not talking about gentle breezes, but full on blizzards.

A knuckle-dragging ape would have died in the Mikramurka regions ages ago. As would many, many other things. There's a very good reason ecological diversity drop rapidly as one goes further and further away from the equator. If anything, one needs to either be especially hardy or really darn creative (or far more likely, both) to actually live here just fine.

You seem to forget that the Sebiestor didn't start out with modern tech and we were already living, and heck, thriving in the Mikramurka region back then. By various trials and errors and coming up with increasingly better ways to farm that land, track more food, make warmer shelters and giving blizzards the finger. That is where all the practice came from.

I wasn't even talking about Sebiestors of today surviving Mikramurka, I was talking about Sebiestors from way, way back before the Tribes even had the idea about coming together and make something great.

What, you are going to tell me next that the MInmatar started out with all these wonderful tech that allows us to build towering skyscrapers and ultra-deep mines?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
#46 - 2017-05-17 18:04:45 UTC
So self-imposed primitive savagery is your bag, allright. I'll stick with the method my clan - and I suspect most others - used, i.e. not building up from rubbing sticks together or whatever it is you're imagining was the settlement method of choice up north.

Generators and a whole plethora of energy sources are portable, cheap, incredibly easy to transport up north along with all the necessities for any sized settlement. This along with the most basic of hydroponics and literally thousands of years old knowledge of the most basic of agriculture sorts out settlements within a timeframe so short they might as well have popped into existence overnight.

From there the expansion into taking advantage of the rich natural resources up north that becomes available when you have something more advanced than a stick comes along within mere months.

You don't actually think anyone relied on hunting game for survival the last few hundred years? Relying on local fuel sources like... what, wood for energy and heat?

Elmund, what bloody century are you from?
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#47 - 2017-05-17 18:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
So self-imposed primitive savagery is your bag, allright. I'll stick with the method my clan - and I suspect most others - used, i.e. not building up from rubbing sticks together or whatever it is you're imagining was the settlement method of choice up north.

Generators and a whole plethora of energy sources are portable, cheap, incredibly easy to transport up north along with all the necessities for any sized settlement. This along with the most basic of hydroponics and literally thousands of years old knowledge of the most basic of agriculture sorts out settlements within a timeframe so short they might as well have popped into existence overnight.

From there the expansion into taking advantage of the rich natural resources up north that becomes available when you have something more advanced than a stick comes along within mere months.

You don't actually think anyone relied on hunting game for survival the last few hundred years? Relying on local fuel sources like... what, wood for energy and heat?

Elmund, what bloody century are you from?


I was talking about the Sebiestor surviving the Mikramurka before the Minmatar Empire was a thing, and you are talking about Sebiestor TODAY?

Can't you read contexts or are you so up your arse with your bias against me that you presume I was talking about modern Sebiestor the entire time?

Heck, if we were living like our ancestors from way back then, my Clan wouldn't had even gotten to Skarkon and I wouldn't even be posting this right now.

Reread the darn thing. We didn't start with generators, we didn't have skyscrapers, we didn't even have hydroponics when the first Sebiestors came out into the open one day and found that there's frost, infertile soil, hungry predators, long nights and lots of hungry predators and very little to go around. We survived that, got to the point where we connected with other Tribes, to the point where the Sebiestor started figuring out the way to beat gravity and put things in space, to the point where we apply the lessons learnt from surviving places like Mikramurka to colonise worlds that can be just as, if not far more inhospitable than our home region, then got ourselves manacled by the Day of Darkness.

It takes quite alot of work getting to that point, and on the way of getting there, we had alot of practice coming up with solutions to the various problems that will very likely get us killed in short order.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#48 - 2017-05-17 18:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I mean, however much I make fun of the southerners I'm willing to bet I could throw Elsebeth a basic kit and dump her out of a skimmer up north and she'd be just fine. Liable to kill me on sight, but fine.

In complete seriousness, yea, you probably still could. Been years since I've done any of that **** because gods and spirits, I like sleeping in a bed with sheets in it and morning coffee that does not require me to set up a camp stove with freezing finger, but ugh, heritage and classical upbringing and all that.

Right on the mark on the liability of violent death, too.
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#49 - 2017-05-17 18:23:13 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I mean, however much I make fun of the southerners I'm willing to bet I could throw Elsebeth a basic kit and dump her out of a skimmer up north and she'd be just fine. Liable to kill me on sight, but fine.

In complete seriousness, yea, you probably still could. Been years since I've done any of that **** because gods and spirits, I like sleeping in a bed with sheets in it and morning coffee that does not require me to set up a camp stove with freezing finger, but ugh, heritage and classical upbringing and all that.

Right on the mark on the liability of violent death, too.


If going northwards, I wouldn't really advise going out into all that frost and snow by yourself but if you insist, bring a shovel along. The further north you go, the more you are going to need it. As it turns out, if you dig under, you are able to keep the heat going without worrying about getting buried by blizzards or avalanches (mountainous regions) and that shovel will also allow you to dig yourself out.

And wildlife generally fears fire. Or things resembling fire.

Except the corovids. Bloody blighters tend to follow camps around. For the leftovers, and unlucky sod who froze their balls off.

Steppes at any time without winter is downright pleasant.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#50 - 2017-05-17 18:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Elmund Egivand wrote:
some camping advice for tourists in snow-eater country

Thanks for the advice, buddy, but I thought I made it pretty clear that I 1) would know how, but 2) have zero intent to actually do it, because really, seriously, not my idea of fun, and I am gratefully old enough that no one can make me suffer in the nature in order to teach me to appreciate my heritage and the raw beauty of the steppes or whatever.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2017-05-17 18:35:19 UTC
Well, I'll just say that the Stjörnauga still live in our native environment in the kind of harsh, primitive conditions that prevailed when the very first of us made our long trek to new lands beyond the reach of our arms.

We still use the same extremely basic tools to generate heat, to procure food, to ensure potable water, and to care for our sick.

Because really, fusion reactors, station distribution services, plumbing, and med-bays haven't really changed all that much when we compare it to 'rub two sticks together for fire and then throw them at an antlered ungulate to try to get cooked meat'.

I mean, that's how you guys do it, right? You light the sticks on fire, stick the animal with them, and then chase down the burning steak?
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#52 - 2017-05-17 18:39:21 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
some camping advice for tourists in snow-eater country

Thanks for the advice, buddy, but I thought I made it pretty clear that I 1) would know how, but 2) have zero intent to actually do it, because really, seriously, not my idea of fun, and I am gratefully old enough that no one can make me, in order to teach me to appreciate my heritage and the raw beauty of the steppes or whatever.


Considering that I grew up in a hostile environment where a single technical glitch could be all it takes to kill us all, yeah, I can see why you wouldn't want to vacation in a place that's trying to kill you.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#53 - 2017-05-17 18:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Arrendis wrote:


I mean, that's how you guys do it, right? You light the sticks on fire, stick the animal with them, and then chase down the burning steak?


Nah. Those things are usually already dead before we throw them into a heat source.

Because leaving them alive would mean getting us killed. Teeth and claws and antlers and having extremely foul tempers and weighing as much as a LAV and all that. Kill them, perform their last rites, dismember them then cook them.

Also, don't touch the liver.

Well, there's goats but they are very jumpy and will light the house on fire if put into a fire before killing them first.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2017-05-17 19:21:24 UTC
My way sounds less boring.
James Syagrius
Reclamation
#55 - 2017-05-17 20:05:58 UTC
A thoughtful dialogue Ms. Mizhara Del'thul, that was as informative as it was engaging. I thank you, I learned something of value in your discussions.
Oland Jan
Doomheim
#56 - 2017-05-18 03:50:48 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Thank you.

Well said. Beautifully said. And so important to remember.

The only part that might not be so accurate, as I see, is this part:

"Minmatar may very well be the most diverse people of New Eden, even more so than the Federation."

Before I lived in the Federation and learned more about how it works, I thought Minmatar diversity might rival the Federations. It doesn't. Minmatar diversity approaches Federation diversity though, due in portion to how many Minmatar live in the Federation.
I realize that both of you are right. How often does that happen!

The idiosyncrasies of Minmatar culture are wonderfully intricate. But there is a weight to it, that seems to lessen in the Federation.

I often wonder what our kin think of those of us who choose to live in the Federation?
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
It is a fair criticism, given what I should really put at the end of every post I ever write: "Disclaimer, this poster could, in fact, be fallible and wrong, in spite of overwhelming indications to the contrary and the sudden and surprising classification of her posterior as an official divine entity on a minor world on the edge of Federation space."

... it's a legal matter after a concert broke open the crust of a volcano, insurance matters and 'acts of god' clauses. Don't ask.
I so want to visit this world!
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2017-05-18 04:04:01 UTC
Oland Jan wrote:

Mizhara Del'thul wrote:

... it's a legal matter after a concert broke open the crust of a volcano, insurance matters and 'acts of god' clauses. Don't ask.
I so want to visit this world!


You should see what she can do with a temperate planet and a structurally-unsound supercarrier.
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#58 - 2017-05-18 08:37:32 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
a structurally-unsound supercarrier.


I am twitching something fierce right now.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

James Syagrius
Reclamation
#59 - 2017-05-18 18:12:36 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Oland Jan wrote:

Mizhara Del'thul wrote:

... it's a legal matter after a concert broke open the crust of a volcano, insurance matters and 'acts of god' clauses. Don't ask.
I so want to visit this world!


You should see what she can do with a temperate planet and a structurally-unsound supercarrier.
I could be wrong, but knowing Mr. Jan as I do, I would suspect it wasn't the geologic abnormality that attracted his attention, but rather the mention of a divine posterior.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2017-05-18 19:06:07 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
but rather the mention of a divine posterior.


What do you think she's gonna be shaking around as she rides the structurally-unsound supercarrier down the gravity well?