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Cash and Cruisers for beginners?

Author
CaseyLP
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#21 - 2017-05-13 06:27:23 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:
CaseyLP wrote:
If you ever are interested in checking it out, Exploration is a very good way to get money as a beginner.

I recently created an alt, and as soon as I did the career missions I went exploring. In the course of 2 hours I already made close to 50 mil.

Exploration is great because you can start doing it the moment you start the game, and if you are smart about it, it can be low risk for a very large reward.

My ship I used for exploring probably costs no more than 3 mil, which means I paid my ship over 16 times in the course of just 2 hours.


The issue with Exploration is it seems to require you to go to low sec or into wormholes. I've done both. First time into a .4 system to kill rats and work out manual flying.. ganked. First time hacking in a wormhole... ganked and podded for lulz apparently. The ship I didn't much care about.. but the podding was a annoying as I had to replace implants.

So basically I tried exploration and I'm 15 million in the hole with it.. not really keen to try it again until I can spend the time and money to out fit a ship that is more comparable to what I'd meet and maybe learn some better techniques to have a chance of getting away.

That's why I said you have to be smart. I was also ganked the first couple times I went exploring. But after a while I got smarter about how I went about it and right now the current ship I'm using has lasted me for over two weeks of straight exploration, and most of the time I don't even see anyone on d-scan.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#22 - 2017-05-13 08:11:07 UTC
IMO the most effective method of making ISK as an alpha newbie is scamming.

One form of scamming that works surprisingly well is begging.

Have you had a ship loss yet? If so, go into a mission hub (such as the system Osmon) and link the lost ship with a sad story about how you lost it and can't afford to replace it. A number of players will drop you 20m or so, often more than needed to replace the lost ship.

Once you've been paid a few times, you should be able to afford a bigger ship that you can then deliberately lose, to restart the cycle.

If anyone calls you out on posting the same thing again and again, just flat out accuse them of lying.


Other scam methods tend to involve contracting which (IIRC) is not available at all as an alpha.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Thora Unni
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2017-05-13 15:30:00 UTC
CaseyLP wrote:

That's why I said you have to be smart. I was also ganked the first couple times I went exploring. But after a while I got smarter about how I went about it and right now the current ship I'm using has lasted me for over two weeks of straight exploration, and most of the time I don't even see anyone on d-scan.


Absolutely when you have the skills needed to avoid people and have trained the right set of skills to the right levels. While More importantly have the right experience for it I'm sure it can be very productive. Skills will get you in a ship to minimize risk, but experience will save your bum. Experience that many new players just don't have.

For a new player to do exploration you really have to do a lot of research a head of time. Know how to Dscan effectively, know to keep aligned. Have some luck and play at off peak times. Based on my experiences so far I play at times when people who are willing to pod you for fun are around. So for now I'll keep to other things.

But I agree based on all that I read you are absolutely right. Which is why I gave it a try. If you have had a good experience with it go for it.
CaseyLP
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#24 - 2017-05-13 15:54:42 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:
CaseyLP wrote:

That's why I said you have to be smart. I was also ganked the first couple times I went exploring. But after a while I got smarter about how I went about it and right now the current ship I'm using has lasted me for over two weeks of straight exploration, and most of the time I don't even see anyone on d-scan.


Absolutely when you have the skills needed to avoid people and have trained the right set of skills to the right levels. While More importantly have the right experience for it I'm sure it can be very productive. Skills will get you in a ship to minimize risk, but experience will save your bum. Experience that many new players just don't have.

For a new player to do exploration you really have to do a lot of research a head of time. Know how to Dscan effectively, know to keep aligned. Have some luck and play at off peak times. Based on my experiences so far I play at times when people who are willing to pod you for fun are around. So for now I'll keep to other things.

But I agree based on all that I read you are absolutely right. Which is why I gave it a try. If you have had a good experience with it go for it.

To be honest, when I go exploring I don't really have a plan. I literally just undock from whichever station I'm at, scan the first cosmic sig I see, and if it's a wormhole I go through it.

And like I said, I haven't died in at least two weeks now, and I am using an Imicus, which is immediately available (or the other racial equivalent) to new players.

And you're never gonna get the experience if you don't experience Big smile
Jones Beach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2017-05-16 13:43:00 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:
CaseyLP wrote:

That's why I said you have to be smart. I was also ganked the first couple times I went exploring. But after a while I got smarter about how I went about it and right now the current ship I'm using has lasted me for over two weeks of straight exploration, and most of the time I don't even see anyone on d-scan.


Absolutely when you have the skills needed to avoid people and have trained the right set of skills to the right levels. While More importantly have the right experience for it I'm sure it can be very productive. Skills will get you in a ship to minimize risk, but experience will save your bum. Experience that many new players just don't have.

For a new player to do exploration you really have to do a lot of research a head of time. Know how to Dscan effectively, know to keep aligned. Have some luck and play at off peak times. Based on my experiences so far I play at times when people who are willing to pod you for fun are around. So for now I'll keep to other things.

But I agree based on all that I read you are absolutely right. Which is why I gave it a try. If you have had a good experience with it go for it.


The only "skill" you need to survive while doing exploration in lowsec is knowing to keep local open. If you see someone enter local - cloak up. As you get more skilled and knowledgeable of the areas which you visit, it will become less necessary to run/hide at everything. Also avoid station systems bc people live in those systems and frequently book mark the sites so you wont see their probes before they warp in their cloaked ships to kill you.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2017-05-17 11:54:37 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:


Ever single time I've gone into low sec or Wormholes for exploration I have been popped 3 out of 5 times.. which just doesn't make it worth it without heavier skills. But you can make a fair bit if you have better luck.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M

Your character's skill points aren't going to help much with this. Your players skills however will. As you have noticed playing with other's helps out with this on multiple fronts.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2017-05-17 12:08:44 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:


I'll take your word or it though that a person that logs in knowing exactly what to do and custom trains their account to perfectly min max might be able to pull of 10 million. If you want to do nothing else and you are blitzing.


I've heard people claim that they can make as much as 200 million isk per hour missioning in high sec on characters that are only a few months old. These are not alpha characters but they are young. So I don't think we are talking about min / maxing here.

The Hurricane is capable of more DPS than the Drake. The Drake is famous for it's low DPS. So I think Chainsaw used it as a wost case example not best case.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2017-05-17 12:43:17 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:


I run Level 3 with two Limited Invulnerability Fields and 10mn afterburner and a full compliment of 720 scouts with a heavy missile Launcher right now most of my gunnery skills are level 4 I'm pulling up my Medium turrets to level 5. battlecruiser (which I never thought to check) to level 4 and I have a 5% implant that will go in shortly. (didn't want to put it in while playing around with exploration a bit.. which was a good call)

The 650s are a far better choice IMHO. The 720s show as having higher DPS but paper DPS that you are shown in the fitting UI and actual applied DPS are not the same thing. From my experience the increased range on the 720s does not make up for the reduced tracking. Of course everything in Eve is situational and if you are only shooting at larger targets then maybe the 720s would be ok but in level 3s the 650s seem to work much better for me. Also the longer cycles times of the 720s seem to lead to lots of over kill and the smaller clip size is noticeable with a 10 second reload time.
Thora Unni wrote:

So I'm running ehp of 47k cap stable and a DPS high of 323 (with drones and missiles) and 250 with just guns. 2-3 pocket mission with 2-4 groups in each takes me about 30-40 minutes to run because I distance tank and my shields never drop below half and so long as I warp in at range I won't drop below 66%. If I have a whole group of frigates on top of me at 2-6km I take a pounding.

You should probably link your fit. Which SB are you using? Also mission specific hardeners are typically much more helpful than just using invuls on everything.
Thora Unni wrote:

I've been back about a month and 2.5mil sp when I logged in and 1.7mil unallocated I'm sitting at 5 million now. There is a split between mining and Combat as I actually prefer mining and industry to be honest but it is a little boring at times so I like to be slow in my training. I'll train up a bit until I can whip through the Lvl 3s faster. Keep building a pile of money and work on a few agents. Before I start looking at a battleship for level 4s.

You seem to talk about skill points a lot. I'd recommend focusing less on skill points and more on what you are doing. Eve is not nearly as much of a min / max stats game as other MMOs. Eve is all about doing more with less.

Eve is also a game which means it's about having fun so if you like mining and industry then do that. Fun / hour is a far more important statistic than isk / hour.
Thora Unni wrote:

As for the other peoples suggestions of training for a faction battleship.

I honestly don't remember all the details of why I left the second time in 2005. ...........

I realize I'm an odd ball.

Why you left is not really important. Worry about now. If you want to focus on the past or try and get back to where you were, keep in mind that you left back then. If you try to duplicate what happened then don't expect a different result. As far as being oddball I think that you are probably a lot more typical than you think.
Thora Unni wrote:

However I really think that people that say 10mil ISK an hour are inflating that number. LP is a potential isk but it isn't actual isk. Not right away. I don't think a New Player can hit that. Real isk numbers that increase your wallet so you can buy new ships is 6mil/hr for nearly everything I've done... So far. Missile are certainly easier early on, a Drake if your earlier enough in your Training does seem logical. Caldari Missile boats have always been "easy mode"

Doing a Lvl 3 with a Alpha is nearly impossible Cruisers is biggest ship you can fly and no pirate faction ships.

The market in this game is a huge part of the game. Buying and selling stuff is the core of this industrial / war simulation. Try telling a farmer that property isn't money he'll laugh at you. Money is just a representation of value not actual value.

So when running missions you get LP. You do a bit of homework to figure out what to purchase with that LP to be able to sell for decent isk with a reasonable turn around. LP are the main isk maker on mission running. It's the reason that you run missions. If you don't take LP into account you will not see much profit from mission running. Indeed the people who make the most isk from mission running pretty much ignore everything but LP.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2017-05-17 12:54:07 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:


The issue with Exploration is it seems to require you to go to low sec or into wormholes. I've done both. First time into a .4 system to kill rats and work out manual flying.. ganked. First time hacking in a wormhole... ganked and podded for lulz apparently. The ship I didn't much care about.. but the podding was a annoying as I had to replace implants.

So basically I tried exploration and I'm 15 million in the hole with it.. not really keen to try it again until I can spend the time and money to out fit a ship that is more comparable to what I'd meet and maybe learn some better techniques to have a chance of getting away.

You should not be going into null sec with implants. Use jump clones to get into a clone without implants. Like I said already the key to this game is doing more with less. Fit cheap so that you can shrug off the losses and learn from each experience.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2017-05-17 13:02:25 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:
until I am a little more familiar with the game again I'm staying away from Corporations as in every single MMO I've ever played I leave them when they start demanding I do things that are counter productive. Right now EvE is a nice little time sink so I am doing things slow for my enjoyment.

Eve is not like other games. I've not been in any corporations in Eve that demand I do things. I am sure corps like that exist but I assume that they are in a minority. Eve is about who you know and what you know and not your character's stats. Eve is a true MMO in the sense that it's meant to be played with others.

Corps may not be for everyone and some people may do well outside the corp structure but you will need to make friends in this game and find people to do stuff with or there really is not point in playing this game. Joining a corp is a good way to find like minded people to fly with.

However more important than joining a corp right now, I think is looking for one. Start looking for a corp to join but don't be in a hurry to join one. Many corps and alliances have public chat channels that they use for recruitment. Use those as a means of gaining access to vets that you can chat with and ask questions. This not only gets you access to advice in real time but gives you a chance to feel different corps out and see what their players and activity levels are.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2017-05-17 15:58:44 UTC
Thora Unni wrote:

paying 945isk a round is excessive. Even at their cheapest according to eve market they are 680isk. 10-15x the retail cost for 40DPS doesn't seem worth it for PvE (PvP most certainly) Particularly as I make them for under 35isk. full set of ammo is 113,400k I generally refill my turrets 3 times. Even at 2.5 to account to the DPS increase I'd be looking at 283k isk a mission opposed to 12,000isk. That means if I were able to blitz and do the 10 million you are taking about, thats 4 missions an hour. Losing 1 million in ammo. I figure the extra time it takes with the lower ammo would work out to be the same really. (figure 60-65dps (340vs400 once I get my skills where they need to be)) Though I may keep some around for PvP purposes should it be required.


This may be a fairly extreme example but I often feel that when picking examples to demonstrate subtle points, sometimes picking extremes helps in the visualization of the concept that then can be conceptually dialed back to something more relevant.

So when I first started playing this game I wound up running level 4 missions in a Drake ( before they were nerfed ). The drake had plenty of tank to handle them but the DPS was painfully low. It would take me hours to finish one mission. I did not think that a little bit more dps could matter that much.

As I added small percentages of DPS from skills completing I would notice it. What I did not realize is that if an NPC is repping 100 HP / sec and you are only applying 110 DPS then adding 10 DPS would cut in half the amount of time it took you to kill that NPC.

quantifying actual damage landed and trying to do cost / benefit analysis on things like faction ammo in this game can be difficult. However if you are running a lot of the same missions you could experiment with it. Run the mission both ways multiple times and time it. See the difference. Then figure an accurate isk / hour from the mission including LP. It's a lot easier to do with something like chaining anoms or belt ratting where you can get it down to bounty ticks. However it's still doable to come up with fairly accurate data this way.

More importantly you will learn things about the game through experimenting in this way. I believe that you will be better served at this point with experimenting and learning rather than assuming or just reading. Your practical knowledge / experience in this game is the second most important thing that you have. So I strongly suggest prioritizing learning above isk / hour.

The single most important asset that you will have in this game is your relationships with other players.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#32 - 2017-05-19 01:26:58 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Thora Unni wrote:
until I am a little more familiar with the game again I'm staying away from Corporations as in every single MMO I've ever played I leave them when they start demanding I do things that are counter productive. Right now EvE is a nice little time sink so I am doing things slow for my enjoyment.

Eve is not like other games. I've not been in any corporations in Eve that demand I do things. I am sure corps like that exist but I assume that they are in a minority. Eve is about who you know and what you know and not your character's stats. Eve is a true MMO in the sense that it's meant to be played with others.

Corps may not be for everyone and some people may do well outside the corp structure but you will need to make friends in this game and find people to do stuff with or there really is not point in playing this game. Joining a corp is a good way to find like minded people to fly with.

However more important than joining a corp right now, I think is looking for one. Start looking for a corp to join but don't be in a hurry to join one. Many corps and alliances have public chat channels that they use for recruitment. Use those as a means of gaining access to vets that you can chat with and ask questions. This not only gets you access to advice in real time but gives you a chance to feel different corps out and see what their players and activity levels are.



Some corps function as chat lobbies and some as academies. These corps tend to impose low requirements on members.

Others function as cohesive groups working together to impose themselves on the game world. These corps may require you participate in strategic operations, structure or sovereignty defenses or the like.

Ask questions and determine if the corp is indeed a fit for your goals in game.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Bradley Chaturvedi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2017-05-20 06:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bradley Chaturvedi
Heres how i got my cash:
>I joined a wormhole corp
>Paid a mercCool (3-5 mil) to "santitze" a common perimeter deposit which spawned in the corp wormhole.
>Mined an Arkonor asteroid and a Bistlot asteroid (Arkonor has the highest value and Bistlot is not far behind.... but check the market just in case)

1.5 to 3 hours = 30 mil in a venture with 2x miner I installed.... you can keep all other slots empty... although i recommend installing a cloak and a warp core stabilizer to get out fast, as you are in a wormholeBig smile.

REMEMBERShockedShocked: Keep yourself aligned to your corp's base at all times to make sure you can warp quick.
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#34 - 2017-05-22 14:28:55 UTC
There are hundreds of ways to get ahead in Eve... and none are really wrong.

For a truly new player, the first thing I'd do is the career agent missions. Not just one career agent... all 5 of them. This should leave you with around 10 million isk and an assortment of ships (couple of ventures, couple of industrials, 3-4 frigates and a destroyer). There are 3 sets of career agents for each faction (Amarr/Caldari/Minmatar/Gallente) and they are incredibly easy. The "toughest" missions are where you have to manufacture a ship... but if you do all the missions you should already have the ship they ask you to manufacture as a gift... so no real problem there.

So... if you do all 3 "sets" of career agents for your faction... you should have 15-20 ships and 30m isk or so. But... you can also do the missions for other factions as well. If you're alpha... you can't fly the ships so there's not much of a point... but for a new Omega that's 120m isk and 70+ ships of various factions to start with.

Now doing all of those missions might be tedious... but it's pretty much risk free. With a little drone skilling... you can literally do every single mission in a venture (other than the ones your ship blows up... use something else for that). Once you've had enough of career missions, do the SOE arc in a cruiser of your choice... you should be able to afford it. Or take up exploration. Or join FW. Or grind standing for missions. Or just go to null.

The point is those career missions are an easy (though somewhat tedious) way to get yourself on your feet isk wise if you're struggling to get started.
Keno Skir
#35 - 2017-05-22 16:56:48 UTC
CaseyLP wrote:
Thora Unni wrote:
CaseyLP wrote:

That's why I said you have to be smart. I was also ganked the first couple times I went exploring. But after a while I got smarter about how I went about it and right now the current ship I'm using has lasted me for over two weeks of straight exploration, and most of the time I don't even see anyone on d-scan.


Absolutely when you have the skills needed to avoid people and have trained the right set of skills to the right levels. While More importantly have the right experience for it I'm sure it can be very productive. Skills will get you in a ship to minimize risk, but experience will save your bum. Experience that many new players just don't have.

For a new player to do exploration you really have to do a lot of research a head of time. Know how to Dscan effectively, know to keep aligned. Have some luck and play at off peak times. Based on my experiences so far I play at times when people who are willing to pod you for fun are around. So for now I'll keep to other things.

But I agree based on all that I read you are absolutely right. Which is why I gave it a try. If you have had a good experience with it go for it.

To be honest, when I go exploring I don't really have a plan. I literally just undock from whichever station I'm at, scan the first cosmic sig I see, and if it's a wormhole I go through it.

And like I said, I haven't died in at least two weeks now, and I am using an Imicus, which is immediately available (or the other racial equivalent) to new players.

And you're never gonna get the experience if you don't experience Big smile


^ This man speaks the truth. Stop waiting for skills and go learn why you don't need them anyway. I will happily teach you how to keep the wallet green via exploration.
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