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When will they add more systems?
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grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2017-05-14 03:40:27 UTC
Van Doe wrote:
Do Little wrote:
New Eden currently has about 8000 star systems. A few of them are inaccessible (Jove Space). That may change once we get player built stargates but it will take a fairly large organization to build and deploy those stargates - not much for a solo explorer.

The Inheritance chronicle documents a Jovian wormhole drive that might allow access to space that isn't connected to the stargate network - Sansha stole this technology and use it for their Incursions - maybe someday it will be available to players but ships that can jump without gates or cynos would definitely change the game!

Don't try to get to jove space by mwd in the general direction for quite a long time.

It won't work. I swear it won't work so please not even try to.

I think I got the math right. One light year at 10,000 m/s only takes 30,000 years. 173 days per AU. I never looked at how far the Jove stuff is from the nearest gated systems.

Someone try this and let me know how it works.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#22 - 2017-05-14 05:15:53 UTC
Treycore wrote:
ISeeing other players in local would be a little more rarer, showing the "vastness" of space
How much more empty do you want systems to be? I sometimes make 10-20 jumps and see no one. Aside for staging, entry or trade areas 3/4 systems in eve lack players. And players=content.

The argument "there are a lot of systems but if you add all the players together, collectively they saw everything already" is ridiculous. By this logic you should not visit places on Earth because someone else has already seen it.

I agree we need new (better) pve content

Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#23 - 2017-05-14 07:30:07 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
More is not, in fact, always better. Eve is all about interacting with other players. Expanding things to the point that you don't run into anyone defeats the purpose of the game. On top of that adding new systems would be fun to explore for a relatively short period of time. People would spread out into the new space, it would become old space, and the thrill would disappear.

Just my personal opinion: I would love to generate a situation where entities could live in somewhat complete isolation, develop their empires/culture/ways of living/etc unbeknownst from other players in the universe. Eventually after some long time, they would meet other players and conflicts would erupt over different opinions about dealing with certain things/about first contact/about different cultures/about something that no one knew until then. Not just for a moon, a system or a simple trade route, but conflicts over really serious, profound matters and differences, not just for the lolz.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#24 - 2017-05-14 07:44:51 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

Just my personal opinion: I would love to generate a situation where entities could live in somewhat complete isolation, develop their empires/culture/ways of living/etc unbeknownst from other players in the universe. Eventually after some long time, they would meet other players and conflicts would erupt over different opinions about dealing with certain things/about first contact/about different cultures/about something that no one knew until then. Not just for a moon, a system or a simple trade route, but conflicts over really serious, profound matters and differences, not just for the lolz.

Step 1, delete every single alt.
That's the first thing required in that type of game play.
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2017-05-14 12:27:58 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

Just my personal opinion: I would love to generate a situation where entities could live in somewhat complete isolation, develop their empires/culture/ways of living/etc unbeknownst from other players in the universe. Eventually after some long time, they would meet other players and conflicts would erupt over different opinions about dealing with certain things/about first contact/about different cultures/about something that no one knew until then. Not just for a moon, a system or a simple trade route, but conflicts over really serious, profound matters and differences, not just for the lolz.


While this is a cool thought, somehow I feel that the complete and utter lack of consequences for your actions in eve would somehow get in the way of this.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#26 - 2017-05-14 15:32:12 UTC
Treycore wrote:
I've played eve off and on for a about 6 years now, I don't play a lot when I do, I mostly enjoy flying around and scoping things out, then I stop playing but one thing that always irked me was looking at the map and how everything is mostly claimed, even flying around cloaked through null sec there's always at least 2-3 others on the system

Within minutes of EvE coming out of downtime these new systems would be located. By time a casual player like you who only logs in occasionally found them they would already have players in them so what would you gain with the addition of new space?
Aeryn Maricadie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2017-05-15 14:03:01 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
The question should be, when are they going to remove systems.

Thanks to several changes, it's possible to feed a very large population off very few systems. What this ends up doing is creating tiny pockets of extremely cultivated space, separated by huge pockets of empty space that is never going to be viable for cultivation, either because of proximity to another group, or because the geography is bad for actually getting your bear on. Bear


Briefly, that is a bad thing, because it compartmentalizes interactions too heavily. Empires war for sport or pride, but almost never because they had too little territory. Roamers have to search long and far in null, and when they do find population, it tends to be too dense to actually have fun roaming there. There's enough room in null for many, many more entities to set up their own little space, but in practicality, it's just easier to rent or join a larger alliance, thus more content falls into the hands of the large, monolithic entities than the small ones.

If you want to do your own thing, just wormhole dive into the middle of the drone lands or something, where finding or exploring your way home is half the fun.

All that being said, even if they release new space, or say if the somehow replayed the tape of New Eden, the same things would happen, though the names would perhaps be a little different. Large groups would still come to dominate. The true way to make a New Eden more vivid and action packed is to have lots of bottom up income that needs to be actively harvested.


So there is kinda an easy fix for this no? Just make resources scarce again "over consumption caused depletion" sorta thing. Suddenly you've got major wars on all fronts. Seems like an easy way for them to make a lot of content with minimal effort.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2017-05-15 16:38:15 UTC
Eve has too much space as it is. They obviously can't just take space out, but it would certainly be nice if they could.

Throughout history, scarcity has always lead to conflict. Not enough oil? Invade a country that has some. Not enough land for your population? Hey... they've got some. Etc.

PVP is fun. Carebears who disagree can just keep docking up like they do now.

At the end of the day, I can appreciate that your desired experience is exploration. That's what wormholes are for.. they're already massive, there's no local, there's no gates. There are a LOT of wormholes.

If they're boring, then what you should be asking for is not "more space" but "more content in space". Adding more space will not give you "more content", it will just remove content from the people who like to find people to kill.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#29 - 2017-05-15 21:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Old Pervert wrote:
Eve has too much space as it is. They obviously can't just take space out, but it would certainly be nice if they could.
...
Throughout history, scarcity has always lead to conflict. Not enough oil? Invade a country that has some. Not enough land for your population? Hey... they've got some. Etc.

That first point is debatable. I am in a situation where I have to constantly battle with AFK Ishtars for good anomalies because these AFK people do not want to rat in lower tier anomalies and leave the good anomalies for actively playing people. That cause constant strain for them. Less systems would just mean that these issues become more pronounced.

PVP is certainly not fun if you live next to someone like CFC without an agreement or another big entity that roflstomps you into the ground day in, day out without you being able to use your space or live in it. If you cannot do anything else in your space than dock and wait until the storm has passed, you end up like Drone Lands: lots of empty space because no one wants it, no one can use it. Only certain people ask for less space because they ignore what less space actually means: less space for the suffocatingly big groups to use so that no one else could not even get a ****** system (in case someone desperately desires one).

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2017-05-16 13:06:17 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
However, I will agree with you that some new space would invigorate the game, at least for a while, and draw people into the 'land rush' to explore and settle the new space. It really though needs to have some new mechanics to distinguish itself from our current space, and they better be engaging and different enough (like wormholes were) for there to be any lasting interest, but in any case, it will be completely claimed by players in short order.

I random thought I got while reading this: that may be solved by introducing temporary space for people to plunder of whatever there is and get out before it goes away with everything you leave there.

Sorta like random "wormhole regions" (which may or may not use current WH mech though) except with no way to actually remain there for long enough to make entrenching too deeply worthwhile.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2017-05-18 15:10:07 UTC
The assumption that more space is bad because we don't need it is deeply flawed.

There are posts that explain exactly how new space can be different (I even wrote one) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=518121

A LOT of people would sell their Grandmothers for that opportunity.

The key point is to make it different.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2017-05-18 15:26:16 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:
The assumption that more space is bad because we don't need it is deeply flawed.

There are posts that explain exactly how new space can be different (I even wrote one) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=518121

A LOT of people would sell their Grandmothers for that opportunity.

The key point is to make it different.




So what you're saying..... is that the space itself isn't the problem, it's the mechanics of the space.....


So we could just..... I don't know..... add mechanics to our existing tracts of nothingness and that would give the same incentive for people to go to those tracts of nothingness rather than add in more tracts of nothingness to pull people out of existing tracts of nothingness and make even more tracts of nothingness.....



Also known as adding in more space for giggles is bad. We have plenty of space that can be made more exciting/given more reasons to occupy it.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2017-05-19 11:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhaegon Aesir
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Sorta like random "wormhole regions" (which may or may not use current WH mech though) except with no way to actually remain there for long enough to make entrenching too deeply worthwhile.


This already exists friend, they are called "Shattered Wormholes". They all have restrictions disallowing any kind of infrastructure such as POS or citadels, and they are the only wormhole systems that have Ice, rare Ores, and Mercoxit. C13 holes, which are a subset of shattered holes, are even more restricted, only allowing frigate and destroyer sized ships to enter, while granting Wolf-rayet bonuses to these small ships, and containing PVE sites ranging from C1-C5 in difficulty.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#34 - 2017-05-20 00:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: SGT FUNYOUN
The only way I can see an expansion... is if CCP added more star systems... of course there is one way that might be interesting...

... Procedural Generation.


You saw No Man's Sky, some of the TellTale Games' moves, and many other games that have used it successfully?

Not procedurally generating an entirely new world... but generating Wormholes that never come up again... completely randomized new star systems that pop up out of thin air, never to be seen again after they pop. New planets and moons that simply... disappear when the system disappears... or even... new worlds that generate themselves now and again... because PLAYERS explore into the deep regions of unknown space... and this unknown space... is found by probing new wormholes...

... wormholes that when accessed for the first time ever... GENERATE NEW STAR SYSTEMS... that suddenly become permanent parts of the Eve Universe!

Maybe this only happens once every 3-6 months or so... an event that happens on a random day, at a random time, that is generated by a random date generator.

Then maybe CCP, instead of BUILDING this new star system... sets up a set of parameters the computer can choose between... and BAM!... a new wormhole opens up one day in a random system... and that Wormhole pops out of that system and shows up in a totally different star system every 24 hours until it is discovered... then it will only pop up from that day forward on a regular schedule in whatever star systems is popped up in prior to it being accessed for the first time.

Maybe it will pop and change systems very 12 or every 6 hours even!

It will just keep changing systems until it is discovered and accessed the first time... and until it is accessed the first time, it could either have no world behind it, or it could have a set up world already behind it that is already generated before the wormhole even appears.

These new "Procedural Wormholes" could be used for generating temporary wormholes into WHSpace, NullSec, or LowSec generating wormholes that generate new temporary systems that disappear after being accessed a few times, or even for adding totally new systems to the Eve Online universe!

This way CCP could introduce new Star Systems whenever they chose or felt they needed to... and instead of having to program every single tiny thing... they could let the server generate the majority of the Star System, and then they sit back and tweak it to fit EVE as a whole.
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2017-05-20 05:29:30 UTC
How do you think CCP made all of the 5000 or so current systems...do you think they hand made every single one? No, every system is exactly the same, just with slightly different parameters. A yellow sun instead of a purple one, 6 planets instead of 3, the planets are spread out or far away, this one has asteroid belts, this one doesn't. And then they even randomized the names too, for such wonders as "HED-GP", "EC-P8R", "J203753", etc.

So basically you're just...adding more of the same to eve. Procedural generation won't add new planet types, or sun colors, or anything else new. Besides, who actually cares about the physical composition of a system. When is the last time you decided to memorize the planet layout of a system, or how many moons there are, or how many asteroid belts? Never, because celestials in EVE are just there to provide ambiance, they aren't there for exploration. If you've seen one moon, you've seen them all. Nobody is going to look at a new procedurally generated system and go "wow that is amazing!" because it will be the exact same thing they've already seen 1001 times.

Also, No Man's Sky didn't exactly use procedural generation "successfully". That disgrace is a terrible comparison, simply a trash heap and you really don't want to start off any ideas with "let's make it like No Man's Sky"...
Xianax
Wraithlords
#36 - 2017-05-20 09:50:12 UTC
I think before they add more space they need more events like incursions. I would love to see a bunch of blood raiders titans and dreads pop out of nowhere and lay seige to someones keepstar :)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2017-05-21 19:28:09 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Old Pervert wrote:
Eve has too much space as it is. They obviously can't just take space out, but it would certainly be nice if they could.
...
Throughout history, scarcity has always lead to conflict. Not enough oil? Invade a country that has some. Not enough land for your population? Hey... they've got some. Etc.

That first point is debatable. I am in a situation where I have to constantly battle with AFK Ishtars for good anomalies because these AFK people do not want to rat in lower tier anomalies and leave the good anomalies for actively playing people. That cause constant strain for them. Less systems would just mean that these issues become more pronounced.


This problem would be solved if CCP removed drone auto-aggro. Then you would have to play the game but I think CCP does not want to solve this.
Rumi Shanti
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2017-06-12 07:45:09 UTC
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:
How do you think CCP made all of the 5000 or so current systems...do you think they hand made every single one? No, every system is exactly the same, just with slightly different parameters. A yellow sun instead of a purple one, 6 planets instead of 3, the planets are spread out or far away, this one has asteroid belts, this one doesn't. And then they even randomized the names too, for such wonders as "HED-GP", "EC-P8R", "J203753", etc.

So basically you're just...adding more of the same to eve. Procedural generation won't add new planet types, or sun colors, or anything else new. Besides, who actually cares about the physical composition of a system. When is the last time you decided to memorize the planet layout of a system, or how many moons there are, or how many asteroid belts? Never, because celestials in EVE are just there to provide ambiance, they aren't there for exploration. If you've seen one moon, you've seen them all. Nobody is going to look at a new procedurally generated system and go "wow that is amazing!" because it will be the exact same thing they've already seen 1001 times.

Also, No Man's Sky didn't exactly use procedural generation "successfully". That disgrace is a terrible comparison, simply a trash heap and you really don't want to start off any ideas with "let's make it like No Man's Sky"...

Completely correct. But a set of subsystems with more detail and variations with a new and largely varied subset of anomalies would be wonderful. Also, having more of the same type of space, but chains of gates that take you very very far away. Exploring for days on end without ever finding another soul.... Lack of maps in those regions could make for a complex maze system! There could be lore attached as to who made the maze and why... Of course loot at the end would be swell. Our CFEL SAR would actually be able to be utilized, and we could send our specialists out to bring the lost to home....
Rumi Shanti
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2017-06-12 08:05:14 UTC
This is great dialog folks. Lets keep it Rolling with ideas! Oddly, I agree with both schools of thought, there is too much empty space in-between, and not enough QUALITY empty space (bit if was quality, then it wouldn't likely stay empty long, now would it? Dust514 was a spin off of Eve, sort of. What if there was another entire PVE part of Eve that shared data, persistent space/content, but focused on parts on Eve that are very different than the New Eden we currently experience: what if....

We could do sim biospheres/ planets? Introduce plants, bacteria. People. We could build cities, massive scale engineering projects... They would exist under various factions and alliances just as everything else does. But when my Corp attacks your homeland, we also attack your colonies!? The sim builder could he an entirely different subset of the game, and would add amazing content! Those pesky outbreaks and plagues we have now could be real and do real harm to other colonies that don't take precautions... Deepcore mining could generate catastrophe consequences if taken too far; if you become tired of ferrying your stealth Bomber across the skies... You could stop in at the Janus Yacht Club and charter a ketch out for a sail. (maybe that's going a little too far?) point being though, that the depth of content doesn't have to be further out in space through a chain of gates, it can be scaler depth in many ways. Just take a part of current content, and magnify and new details crop up everywhere...
StarterrorPrime
Black Rose Fleet Strategics
#40 - 2017-06-13 03:31:21 UTC
Okay, to simply say it, in some aspects we have too much space considering there is a lot regions of space that go unused except for the occassional prospector rush on an ore site. I once spent three days in the Ennur system to only encounter 1 or 2 people at time, especially in a system rich with hedbergite and ice, much less even the nearest alliance responded to my presence when i prodded their territory. I feel a large problem is the shift in player density from one region to another, as a lot of people are flocking to Amarr and Caldari space for better economic opportunities since the buy and sell prices for minerals are poor in Dodoxie and Hek, even in Rens. Now coming from an older player who first joined around '09, Minmatar space was a lot denser thanks to the fact Hek was a jumping point for Fac warfare, exploration, trade, and piracy with the average player pop in local being 400 at any given moment, but it is now largely going underused. This includes NPC nullsec as well since you rarely see players hanging around that kind of territory like there used to be considering it was pirate heaven for the longest time.
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