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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Author
Andrew Menda
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-05-08 00:36:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Menda
I want to start out by saying that I really love this game. There simply isn't anything like it, and since it has been free to play for a while I decided to try it out. Amazing! I never thought that a game like this existed-it is exactly what I have been looking to play for a long time, and I never thought I would be able to find a game like that for free. I have resumed looking.

I joined this game after watching several game play videos and decided that it was for me. Everything lived up to my expectations until I wanted to equip my mining ship with a laser or two, so I wouldn't need to worry about carrying ammo. Every laser was unusable unless I had something called "Omega Clone" status. The same was true for all projectile weapons (strange, since I thought they were supposed to be primitive), missiles, and various other weapons. After a few seconds on Google, I realized that I had downloaded a game trial.

It wasn't advertised as such, but after I couldn't get past the "Cash Flow for Capsuleers" 6/10, I knew it was true. I couldn't use any of the required ships that I needed to get past it, because I didn't have the Omega Clone status. This must be obvious to anybody who isn't new to the game, but it surprised me. I couldn't even get past the first set of missions without putting money into this free game. I could have tried to save up and get the billion or so I needed for the better pilot's license, but that would take a very long time, given that I didn't have access to the best (or even average) ships and equipment.

This is, or course, a Q&A post. My question is, why doesn't EVE Online operate like so many other successful F2P games, such as War Thunder, PlanetSide 2, many other MMO's, World of (fill in the blank), and others? In those, all you have to do is to advance in the game is, as anybody interested in video games knows, play the game. They make their money form micro transactions that expedite a person's advancement in the game, or just give them cool looking items. Why wouldn't a premium account option that isn't as necessary as Omega Clone along with those other options get plenty of money for a game with as many players as this?

Although I probably do, I don't want to sound like somebody who hates spending money. I might not like monthly game fees in general, but I'm willing to pay them and other steep initial prices as long as the game isn't marketed as "free to play".
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-05-08 01:04:02 UTC
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Venture/Fittings or join channel Beginner Fits and see what they have. You CAN finish all the career mission without Omega.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Keno Skir
#3 - 2017-05-08 03:00:07 UTC
Or you could try again? You don't need to spend cash.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2017-05-08 03:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
I will try to answer this as best I can in my intoxicated state with minimum levels of snark.

Andrew Menda wrote:
This is, or course, a Q&A post. My question is, why doesn't EVE Online operate like so many other successful F2P games, such as War Thunder, PlanetSide 2, many other MMO's, World of (fill in the blank), and others?

Because this isn't like those other games?

Andrew Menda wrote:
In those, all you have to do is to advance in the game is, as anybody interested in video games knows, play the game. They make their money form micro transactions that expedite a person's advancement in the game, or just give them cool looking items. Why wouldn't a premium account option that isn't as necessary as Omega Clone along with those other options get plenty of money for a game with as many players as this?

What you describe are called "freemium games"

The basic thing with those games is that they are very linear in their character / equipment power structure, economy, and gameplay.
You grind hard enough, you gain power. Or you can pay and get to the "end game" faster (or outright).
Equipment is meant only to be tossed as soon as you can equip something better.
Some equipment is unique and one-of-a-kind.


The issue with EVE is that things are not very linear (despite what you may think when looking at the ship / equipment structure).
Even the biggest, baddest, and most expensive ships and equipment can be brought down with enough players in trash-fit equipment. Hell... sometimes even a single trash fit ship can be a "hard counter" to something grossly expensive and grind it down with time.
No item is truly unique here.
Everything is destructible here. In a very permanent sense.


This goes even further.

Almost everything in the game is either harvested or made by other players.

And this is where things get dicy.


The reasons for the restrictions on Alpha accounts really comes down to these two things;

- Alphas should not be able to adversely affect the game for paying customers and upset the balance in such a way that paying customers become aggravated and quit.

- Alphas need something, like a "paywall," to encourage them to subscribe.





Now I understand that subscriptions look scary... but they really aren't.
To put things in perspective:


- a bottle of so-so wine or 6-pack of beer is about $10 and usually won't last 2 or 3 days (maybe not even a day if you're like me).

- a NICE meal at a restaurant is about $10 to $15 and won't last more than 30 minutes to an hour.

- a monthly gym membership is about $10 to $20 a month and, on average, people don't go to it more than 3 days a week for an hour or two at a time.

- a good night at the bar with friends will EASILY cost $50 (drinks, food, transport, etc) and MAYBE you remember about 3-4 hours of the experience, followed by hours of pain the morning after.

- a 12 pack of cigarettes is about $4 to $6... assuming (conservatively) that you only smoke 3 cigarettes a day, that's 7.5 packs of cigarettes a month... which comes to about $30 to 45 a month.

- taking a shower in the morning costs you around $1 to $2... if you take a shower every morning that adds up to about $30 to $60 a month.


Also... let's be honest... you have probably spent MORE money on something WAY dumber in the past.

What you get with EVE is 30 days of unlimited access to a game environment to basically do what you please (within the confines of the rules of course) with tons of other people doing the same thing.


Now if $15 a month is a "high" amount for you, you have bigger problems than affording a game... which very clearly falls in the category of "luxury service" (yes, that is what all games are, a "luxury")
Oraac Ensor
#5 - 2017-05-08 03:48:12 UTC
Andrew Menda wrote:

I joined this game after watching several game play videos and decided that it was for me. Everything lived up to my expectations until I wanted to equip my mining ship with a laser or two, so I wouldn't need to worry about carrying ammo. Every laser was unusable unless I had something called "Omega Clone" status. The same was true for all projectile weapons (strange, since I thought they were supposed to be primitive), missiles, and various other weapons. After a few seconds on Google, I realized that I had downloaded a game trial.

It wasn't advertised as such, but after I couldn't get past the "Cash Flow for Capsuleers" 6/10, I knew it was true. I couldn't use any of the required ships that I needed to get past it, because I didn't have the Omega Clone status. This must be obvious to anybody who isn't new to the game, but it surprised me. I couldn't even get past the first set of missions without putting money into this free game. I could have tried to save up and get the billion or so I needed for the better pilot's license, but that would take a very long time, given that I didn't have access to the best (or even average) ships and equipment.

As Mike Azariah has said, you don't need an Omega clone to do the career tutorial missions.

The situation is quite simple: all you have to do is use the weapons and ships appropriate to your race.

If you want to use lasers, create an Amarr character, if you want projectiles, create a Minmatar character.

QED
Zarek Kree
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#6 - 2017-05-08 03:59:58 UTC
This isn't like those other MMOs. EVE was always designed to be a subscription game. The introduction of a F2P mode didn't change that (nor should it). The alpha clone state is only meant to be a trial account without time limits. However, you can do quite a bit with it with a little help and guidance. Every play style in the game is available to you - but with reduced capability.
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2017-05-08 10:58:45 UTC
Andrew Menda wrote:
I want to start out by saying that I really love this game. There simply isn't anything like it, and since it has been free to play for a while I decided to try it out. Amazing! I never thought that a game like this existed-it is exactly what I have been looking to play for a long time, and I never thought I would be able to find a game like that for free. I have resumed looking.

I joined this game after watching several game play videos and decided that it was for me. Everything lived up to my expectations until I wanted to equip my mining ship with a laser or two, so I wouldn't need to worry about carrying ammo. Every laser was unusable unless I had something called "Omega Clone" status. The same was true for all projectile weapons (strange, since I thought they were supposed to be primitive), missiles, and various other weapons. After a few seconds on Google, I realized that I had downloaded a game trial.

It wasn't advertised as such, but after I couldn't get past the "Cash Flow for Capsuleers" 6/10, I knew it was true. I couldn't use any of the required ships that I needed to get past it, because I didn't have the Omega Clone status. This must be obvious to anybody who isn't new to the game, but it surprised me. I couldn't even get past the first set of missions without putting money into this free game. I could have tried to save up and get the billion or so I needed for the better pilot's license, but that would take a very long time, given that I didn't have access to the best (or even average) ships and equipment.

This is, or course, a Q&A post. My question is, why doesn't EVE Online operate like so many other successful F2P games, such as War Thunder, PlanetSide 2, many other MMO's, World of (fill in the blank), and others? In those, all you have to do is to advance in the game is, as anybody interested in video games knows, play the game. They make their money form micro transactions that expedite a person's advancement in the game, or just give them cool looking items. Why wouldn't a premium account option that isn't as necessary as Omega Clone along with those other options get plenty of money for a game with as many players as this?

Although I probably do, I don't want to sound like somebody who hates spending money. I might not like monthly game fees in general, but I'm willing to pay them and other steep initial prices as long as the game isn't marketed as "free to play".

You're Gallente, and as an alpha can only use weapons of your faction (hybrid turrets and drones). Try fitting a railgun or blaster to your Venture.
The reason why alpha clone state has to be a thing is because we're EvE players. We will completely and totally abuse the hell out of anything you give us. Giving us an unlimited account for free is incredibly dangerous, and unprofitable for CCP.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Memphis Baas
#8 - 2017-05-08 11:44:46 UTC
As it's been mentioned above already, Alpha clones are limited to their race's ships and weapons. So, you created a Gallente character, you're limited to the Gallente frigates and cruisers, and to hybrids (blasters, railguns) and drones.

Otherwise, keep in mind that this is a "train whatever skill you want" game, and there's a wide selection of skills, with very little height to the trees. Basically, the Alpha clones already have access to MOST of the skills.

The devs implemented the Omega restrictions by locking the skills only, and it's a fine balance where if they were to let Alphas have a skill slightly higher, it would unlock all sorts of end-game weapons or ships. There was a huge discussion about the Alpha states before they implemented it, and one of the major goals was to not flood the game with "free throwaway alts" that could be used to flood the economy or commit piracy without consequences. So that's where the system is at.
Andrew Menda
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-05-09 02:45:57 UTC
Thank you for your input. I was just a little frustrated initially, but things make more sense now. The only question I have left is why the mining ships, including the upgraded frigates, barges, and others, are locked. The seem to be non race specific, and given that they are aimed at industry (which is what I am interested in) is frustrating to anybody who has to deal with the venture. I do understand some of the reasons to set up the game like this, even if I don't like it. All the same, I would really like to be able to get a good experience out of this game with or without omega, so any tips for mining would be useful. All I really want to do is make some money and have fun in this new game.

P.S.

You guys are amazing. Usually, when I make a semi-regrettable late night post I get a lot more negative feedback, but this is proof that the Eve community is certainly worth the time it takes to sort through the forums.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#10 - 2017-05-09 17:01:46 UTC
Andrew Menda wrote:
Thank you for your input. I was just a little frustrated initially, but things make more sense now. The only question I have left is why the mining ships, including the upgraded frigates, barges, and others, are locked. The seem to be non race specific, and given that they are aimed at industry (which is what I am interested in) is frustrating to anybody who has to deal with the venture. I do understand some of the reasons to set up the game like this, even if I don't like it. All the same, I would really like to be able to get a good experience out of this game with or without omega, so any tips for mining would be useful. All I really want to do is make some money and have fun in this new game.
While the upgraded mining frigates, mining barges and exhumers are indeed non racial ships; Alpha clones are prevented from using them because allowing them to be used by what are effectively free accounts WILL be abused to hell and back by those of us that know how to use those ships to their maximum potential.

Quote:
You guys are amazing. Usually, when I make a semi-regrettable late night post I get a lot more negative feedback, but this is proof that the Eve community is certainly worth the time it takes to sort through the forums.
Here in NCQA most people get cut a lot of slack, we genuinely want to help new players like yourself to find their feet in Eve. What we don't do is give as much slack to people (generally the instant gratification crowd) that feel that they're entitled to something and demand change to suit them, your original post didn't fall in to that category so it's all good.

General discussion on the other hand tears people new ones on an hourly basis.

Feel free to ask questions in here, we'll answer them as best we can.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#11 - 2017-05-09 17:56:13 UTC
Industrial gameplay is restricted by the Alpha skillset because it would be too easy for experienced players to exploit the free accounts. Stuff that requires active gameplay you can do at some level, passive gameplay - anything that can generate income without being logged in - is restricted.

An Alpha character with a Venture can participate in the most profitable form of mining https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gas_cloud_harvesting

With T2 mining lasers,T2 mining laser upgrades and mining frigate level 4, you can harvest a respectable amount of ore - especially in-fleet with Orca boost. Eve is a social game, look for public fleets or join a player corporation (or both).

In the final analysis, Alpha state gives you a chance to learn the game without hitting a paywall. Whatever career path you choose to follow, there are player corporations that specialize in training new players - Eve University, Brave Newbies, Signal Cartel, Karmafleet, Pandemic Horde ... Even the Nullsec PVP corporations need people who like to build stuff.

If you find a spot where you fit in the game, the $10.00/month CCP wants for a subscription won't seem too bad - where I live that won't buy a decent lunch! Once you get good at industry it's easy to earn the subscription fee in game - making Eve truly free to play.
Netan MalDoran
Deliverance.
Ocularis Inferno
#12 - 2017-05-09 19:11:22 UTC
OP I think I see your initial confusion, laser weapons are different modules than mining lasers.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Andrew Menda
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-05-09 21:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Menda
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
While the upgraded mining frigates, mining barges and exhumers are indeed non racial ships; Alpha clones are prevented from using them because allowing them to be used by what are effectively free accounts WILL be abused to hell and back by those of us that know how to use those ships to their maximum potential.



This makes a lot more sense now. I did some more digging, and other players certainly could abuse the actual crap out of good free accounts. That leaves me with one more question: Why lock T2 weapons and missiles, both of which are available to my race? The only reason I can think of would be to add incentive to purchase the game.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2017-05-09 22:29:34 UTC
you probably don't want to use any sort of offensive turret on a venture anyways, unless you are in a venture fleet that is combat fit for lulz. If you need guns use a combat ship, eve has all sorts of specialized tools, imo it is better to use the right tool. Also insert joke about not wanting to mine anyways, as mining is one of the lowest income professions.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#15 - 2017-05-09 22:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Do Little
Alpha skills are a fair representation of what any new player will train during their first 3-4 months. I was running level 3 missions in a Gnosis with Arbalest launchers and Federation Navy Hobgoblins around that age. You can use the same ship and fit as an Alpha. T2 weapons use up a lot of fitting headroom - you really should have your core fitting skills at level 5 first.

T2 weapons aren't necessary to run missions - when I moved up to battleships and level 4 missions I continued using Meta-4 launchers and faction drones. They worked fine. T2 might have cleared the rooms a bit faster but I was constrained more by knowledge than skill.

Another issue CCP has to consider when selecting the Alpha skillset is skill extraction - they don't want people farming skillpoints with free accounts. Alphas are restricted to less than 5.5 million SP and the skills they are allowed to train can't be extracted.
Keno Skir
#16 - 2017-05-10 12:16:03 UTC
Andrew Menda wrote:
That leaves me with one more question: Why lock T2 weapons and missiles, both of which are available to my race? The only reason I can think of would be to add incentive to purchase the game.


You are correct.

I've enjoyed your thread :) If you need anything in game give me a shout.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2017-05-10 14:25:08 UTC
Andrew Menda wrote:
I realized that I had downloaded a game trial.

It wasn't advertised as such,

I agree with you that CCP messed up on how they advertised it. When they first introduced alpha clones I thought it would ruin the game. I've come to understand that it is just an unlimited trial and I've since come to see it as a good thing. But again I agree that they should not advertise this game as F2P.

I personally will not play F2P games. I have an extreme personal dislike for being marketed to. I can not play games that are constantly trying to sell me fake stuff. I prefer games that charge me per month. I'd much rather have the game developers incentivized to make me want to keep playing the game rather than keep selling me crap. But that is just my personal stance on it, you are free to feel differently.
Andrew Menda wrote:

but after I couldn't get past the "Cash Flow for Capsuleers" 6/10, I knew it was true. I couldn't use any of the required ships that I needed to get past it, because I didn't have the Omega Clone status. This must be obvious to anybody who isn't new to the game, but it surprised me. I couldn't even get past the first set of missions without putting money into this free game. I could have tried to save up and get the billion or so I needed for the better pilot's license, but that would take a very long time, given that I didn't have access to the best (or even average) ships and equipment.



Just because you could not get past the mission with what you had available to you does not mean someone else can't. I believe that you are confusing your personal limitations with those of your character. I am fairly certain that with a different tactic you could complete that mission in a T1 frigate.

More importantly this game is a true MMO. It is meant to be played with other players so aside from just advice help you could have found someone to actually help you in the mission. The two main keys to this game are what you know and who you know. Your character's skill points and ship's abilities have far less to do with outcomes.

I would recommend that you reframe your thought process on this and get out of a "why can't my ship do this" mentality and get into a "what tactics do I need to employ to complete this mission" mindset. If you want to be good at this game you will need to learn how to play it. It appears that this mission has presented you with an opportunity to learn a bit about: tanking, speed tanking, seperating fleets, and prioritizing targets. I would suggest that you use this opportunity to get the most out of it.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli