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This game is Brutal

Author
Tormen Soth
Disciples of the Ebon Dragon
#1 - 2017-05-07 21:55:17 UTC
New player here - well a few months under my belt as omega. I've spent a few bucks on some skill injectors and BPs, and trying to at least to keep my head above water building my own ships and equipment. It seams that most of the gear I can craft though is junk as good stuff needs planetary mats to craft and buying them is very unprofitable. I've all but given up trying to do exploration for profit as I always seem to find just the left overs that others didn't want to crack. It seams all the SP in scanning, hacking and archaeology have been a total waste, so after some more skill injected to the military side of things, I'm trying some npc killing among the asteroids. After a few days and not too much loss it looks like I've found my groove, but then the npcs start getting real ugly. Now I'm getting webbed and scrambled by ships that take no damage, local bases are now patrolled by npcs attack groups which are complete suicide to get near. Im still in the same location but it seams the npcs have just become insane.

I guess I'm wondering at what point players find themselves moving ahead in the combat skills and perhaps actually making a profit from it. I know I wasted so much time and money on useless skills I'm wondering now what kind of investment it takes to actually survive anything in this game.
Raiz Nhell
Tactically Challenged
Tactical Supremacy
#2 - 2017-05-08 00:09:57 UTC
Sounds like your constellation in having a Sansha Incursions...

Move out of the constellation and the NPC's will turn back into fluffy marshmallows.

Also building and sourcing your own stuff is Eve on "Nightmare" mode... Use the market, use your corp...
Try mission running, try running combat sites... Try everything :)

Eve is only as brutal as you let it be :)

There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2017-05-08 00:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
So first off... there is no such thing as "wasted skills" in EVE.

Second... try to view your skills less as things that will make you "get ahead" and more as things that will make you "more effective."
To put it another way; even though you train yourself to swing a hammer down harder, faster, and for longer... it does not mean you will be more effective at hitting nails and/or not bending nails as you hammer them down.
That takes finesse more than raw power... which takes practice to attain.

Basically, your skills will not make you "better" in a contemporary sense. They will simply give you an "edge" over everyone else.
The real trick in learning to use your skills and equipment properly (see: finesse).


Third: Have you tried focusing on something? Because it sounds like you are all over the place.
I see that you are trying to make your own ships and equipment (see: industry), then you are talking about exploration (see: probing and scanning), and now you are looking at combat.

Personally, I would pick one of those and try to master it before really going out and dabbling in other things.
Combat especially so as there are so many facets of it that tie into other facets of the game (see: it is an aspect of the game that you can't really ignore in the long run).


Fourth: Have you tried asking for help from your corporation or others?
Socializing with people who know their **** in EVE can yield wonderful results... even if the result is not always in your favor (see: some of the best PvP experiences I have had are when I was on the receiving end of a brutal engagement / gank and talking with the people who killed me).
Tormen Soth
Disciples of the Ebon Dragon
#4 - 2017-05-08 02:26:12 UTC
So is there a reason now that every NPC I run into is immune to all damage and completely shuts down any form of escape. I just tried with a vexor and like the others, you are just left there with nothing you can do but watch....completely ********!!
Raiz Nhell
Tactically Challenged
Tactical Supremacy
#5 - 2017-05-08 04:03:30 UTC
Tormen Soth wrote:
So is there a reason now that every NPC I run into is immune to all damage and completely shuts down any form of escape. I just tried with a vexor and like the others, you are just left there with nothing you can do but watch....completely ********!!



Like I said, I dare say your constellation is under the effect of a Sansha Incursion
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Incursions

Or you have a really bad Vexor fit and your taking it places you shouldn't...

There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.

Zarek Kree
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#6 - 2017-05-08 04:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
Tormen Soth wrote:
So is there a reason now that every NPC I run into is immune to all damage and completely shuts down any form of escape. I just tried with a vexor and like the others, you are just left there with nothing you can do but watch....completely ********!!


As someone else mentioned, it sounds like your constellation is in the middle of a Sansha incursion. If so, your information display on the upper left of your screen will say "Incursion Profile" when you're in space. They'll move on after severals days or you can simply move a few systems over.

By they way, I can assure you that your exploration skills were not wasted. It's an excellent form of income once you figure out how to do it effectively. It sucks in highsec though. You really have to push out into nullsec to make it worthwhile. But that's something you can do with even T1 exploration ships once you understand how to avoid the gate camps near the security boundaries. There's a ton of information here in the forums on how to do it.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#7 - 2017-05-08 06:01:17 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:


By they way, I can assure you that your exploration skills were not wasted. It's an excellent form of income once you figure out how to do it effectively. It sucks in highsec though. You really have to push out into nullsec to make it worthwhile. But that's something you can do with even T1 exploration ships once you understand how to avoid the gate camps near the security boundaries. There's a ton of information here in the forums on how to do it.



Indeed, I'd actually say that exploration is the most profitable activity around for new players... IF you move out of high sec. Even in low sec, rewards vastly increase and you'll find a lot more sites. You have to be able to take ship losses with a smile though, an exploration ship is effectively target practice for newbie pirates.
Rexxar Santaro
Forex Corp
#8 - 2017-05-08 07:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rexxar Santaro
I’m also a new player here, but I can give you some advices which I test already…

Yes, this game is brutal… and it’s not only NPC side, but the players characters activity also. For new players the NPC seems dangerous, because you haven’t good ships and skills to interfere with them and other players aren’t interested in you. For advanced players, the NPC are less dangerous and the other players are more dangerous due to: spies, corporation stealing, suicides (vs your 1b ship), pirates, contract scammers, stealth bombers and many others. There are almost hundreds of schemes invented on how to scam you or to blow up your ship (read the wiki, for example, read about old “Goonswarm tag trading scam” to their station :). The players and their corporations are different: from more democratic to more tyrannical, from friendly to unfriendly, from pirate-oriented to manufacture-oriented, from pve to pvp etc.

First of all, don’t do any ratting in systems where Incursions are happening. That stuff can be accomplished only with the balanced fleets supported by logistic ships. People lost billions on ships before they realized how to do that. You can see if you are in an incursion system by checking your channel messages or go to the Dotline site (systems are marked as yellow-glow).

Secondly, plan your first-year activity: you want to do more combat and PVP games or more crafting and PVE games. If you want more combat activity then remap your attributes to Perception and Willpower and use respective implants (you will learn specific skills much faster). If you want more pve activity then improve your Intelligence and Memory attributes and train respective skills. During the first two years is no sense to train skills to level 5 (level 4 is enough). Only very few skills worth to train to level 5 as soon as possible: Drones, Mechanics, Science, Industry. Use your skill injectors to boost a skill to level 5 only.

For the first 3 months of EVE online I’ll recommend you train/do: Mining (PVE), Exploration (PVE/rare PVP) or Warefare (more PVE/ less PVP). These will give you good money for a new character, good survival skills (how to use your scanners), good understating of locals, good understanding what to do further. Never try to craft all ship fits by yourself – specialize in some production only. Then train more into Science/Industry, Planetary and your ship skills (to level 3 or 4 only) to be able to perform level IV quests, high-sec/low-sec combat sites, RnD missions. This stuff will let you not care about ship lost. The level IV hi/low-sec Planetary will give you from 15 to 30 M ISK/week passive. The stuff from RnD and exploration will let you to invest into Science and Industry. The Exploration can be very profitable with high skills, but L4 missions and ratting grants more ISK/hour (confirmed 60MISK/hour on a Rattlesnake). With exploration, you can roam around for 2 hours and gain nothing and suddenly you can get 60M from a single site in 5mins. Check the JonnyPew’s channel to see what else you can do in high/low-sec systems.

Talking about system’s security and what’s going there the next image explains the best link.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2017-05-08 10:35:37 UTC
Hello Omega player and welcome to Eve,

Everybody has posted good info. Just remember there's a lot of info to remember, you gotta give it time. First you have to learn how to crawl before you can learn how to walk, then you have to learn how to run after that. Course along the way you're gonna trip and fall down. Just get right back up and keep on going. View every issue and situation as a learning experience. Keep an open mind and above all else, have fun.

Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance. Information Is King And Conversation Is It's Queen.

Now about the exploration career, it's more of a nomadic life style, meaning you have to do some traveling if you want to be successful, especially due to the large amount of competition. On that subject the Star Map is your best friend, check stats on systems that are off the beaten track, away from major trade / mission hubs. Look for systems that deadend in pipeline and cul-de-sac's with low amount of population, low amount of jumps, low amount of ship / pod kills, low amount of NPC kills, etc.

I suggest setting up various routes consisting of a dozen systems or so and check them at different time zones to find the best time with the least amount of competition. If you're checking a route and there's a noticeable lack of exploration sites available, go to another route.

As for the exploration sites themselves, there's various levels of difficulty. Stick with the low level sites until you become more experienced and skilled. Do some research with Google for site specific intel first before blindly jumping in to help complete the sites more quickly. After a while you'll recognize by name which sites to jump on and which sites to bypass.

Also to keep from getting burned out, mix up your game time in Eve with different activities. Variety is the spice that makes life more interesting.

May you have lot's of luck and much success in your career here in Eve.


DMC
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2017-05-08 11:00:12 UTC
Tormen Soth wrote:
It seams that most of the gear I can craft though is junk as good stuff needs planetary mats to craft and buying them is very unprofitable.

We don't have crafting in this game. We have industry and production. In this game very much similar to the industrial world you build for profit. If you find something worth building then you build many copies of it and sell them for profit. If it is not profitable to build and sell that thing then you just buy it. However even at that you are not going to be collecting all of the materials yourself.

In theory you could collect all of your own materials and build what you need. In practice you would spend all of your time building stuff on a one-off basis and you'd not have any time to do stuff yourself.

Years ago I decided to try and build a Jump Freighter myself from scratch. I spent a year trying to collect all of the materials to invent and build that ship myself. In the end I wound up buying most of the T2 reacted materials from the market as I was loosing isk trying to do the reactions myself. Even at that many of the moon mats were purchased off of the market as I only could get access to low quality moons. That is a year I spent trying to figure out how to build one copy of one specific ship and in the end gave up trying to do it all myself and just purchased much of what I needed. Granted the JF is the most complicated ship to build but the point remains.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2017-05-08 11:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
If you want a mixed bag of activities

join a wormhole corp

wormholes offer
- resource collecting
- manufacturing
- exploration
- pve combat
- pvp combat
- periods of self contemplation


Production in eve can get really complicated, and there is a LOT to learn
If you haven't read any of the stickied guides in the research, industry & trading forums
START NOW
seriously .. I mean it.
just like setting up a business in the real world requires an effective business plan with predetermined vision, mission statement, goals, objectives and ambitions.
setting up in the industrial side of eve requires the same level of planning and preparation
just remember the old maxim "failure to plan, is planning to fail"

enjoy your time in eve
and remember, you're never safe.
Alaric Faelen
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2017-05-08 14:16:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
So much good advice.

1) yeah, sounds like you found an Incursion. These pop up randomly and replace regular rats with super rats. Avoid them when possible.
As an aside- Incursions are high end PvE events that players make ridiculous amounts of money farming. If you enjoy combat PvE, Incursions are one of the 'end game' bits of content you might want to work towards (long term goal). These folks fly ships that run into the billions, and consequently they make billions running these sites.

2) No skill is wasted. You may not use them often, but having them lets you jump into any content on a whim. You might not be the best at it, but you can dabble in almost anything in Eve without committing to an 'all V' skill regimen. For example a million years ago I trained up gas mining because a friend was making boosters. The other day while I was scanning down sigs I found a WH and decided to go huff gas for giggles. Unprofitable and I just sold the stuff at the first market I passed, but it was content and I didn't have to be maxed out in skills just to kill an hour doing it.
Most importantly- CCP uses the probe mechanic as a key for a ton of content. So scanning skills are ALWAYS a good investment. Even if all you do is tip toe thru W-Space as a shortcut.

3) A little focus is a good thing. By all means dabble in tons of content, see what interests you. But, specializing does open up a lot of variation and depth. If you like combat PvE, or hope to get into PvP then content like ratting, mission running, etc are good places to start since you will train skills for combat ships/weapons/tank/EWAR. Combined with probing you can do anything from running sigs in high sec to farming capital escalations in a WH. There is an amazing breadth of content to check out.

4) Once you find something you like doing, find a corp that does the same thing. Doesn't have to be the the KB leader or giant industrial behemoth..just a few active players can transform your Eve experience. Seriously, the only thing that kept me in this game for years now is the people I play with.

5) Patience, grasshopper. Eve is not a game of instant gratification. It was created in a time when the slow burn of character development was the key reward for playing. The goal was always to keep training to see what the game allowed you to do next. Now it's a bit too skewed towards farming max rewards, IMO. Developing a character is now seen as merely a speedbump to throw money and skill injectors at to avoid. The wrong direction in my opinion, but that's for another thread.
Take your time with Eve. Don't try to rush into bigger or shinier things too fast. You are almost always better off flying something small well than something large poorly. The game might allow you to run L4s or fly battleships, but almost universally this ends badly while the player is frustrated and content seems to ramp up to impossible levels quickly- it's not impossible, it's just that your skills usually don't keep up with the rate of progression in PvE. Slow down, smell the roses.
Othran
Route One
#13 - 2017-05-08 15:03:15 UTC
The thing to remember about Eve is that it rarely rewards you for having skills in-game and not understanding how to use them.

Eve rewards your innate intelligence rather than any in-game attribute - and newbies now have a FAR better time of things than times past.

Eve is a game where you need to recognise that your enemy is human and will attack you wherever they find you - just like you will in future, should you stay. The PvE stuff isn't Eve as frankly its crap and always has been (long may that last) Lol

Were I starting out again I wouldn't go near the markets (station trading) as the game has changed there in terms of scale (you can lose a lot more than 10 years ago), I think I'd probably do Incursions and (obviously) PvP.

If you simply PvE in Eve you'll be gone inside a year due to boredom. PvE is a means to an end, not the end itself IMHO.

Got a lot of shiny ships you never use for anything but PvE? You're playing Eve wrong - they are meant to die in a glorious fire as other ships explode around you. Everything you fly in PvP is going to die - my personal record was a Cynabal which got on 145(ish) kills which all involved less than 5 people (small gang - usually 1-3).

You need to accept the fact that no matter how good you are in piloting/FCing a specific ship/fleet, someone is likely better or has worked out how to bugger you up. They're not AI's, they're humans and that's where Eve shines.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#14 - 2017-05-08 16:25:32 UTC
Eve is a game where player knowledge, skill and experience matters a lot more than character skill and character XP doesn't matter at all.

The mere fact that you have been using skill injectors tells me you are placing far too much emphasis on character skill. Player corporations exist, in part, to train new players. Some, like Eve University have that as their primary mandate but any corporation that recruits new players should accept responsibility for helping them scale the "learning cliff" of this player driven sandbox. In that regard, I find it interesting that the CEO of your corporation has only been playing a couple of weeks longer than you - could be a new character for an old player but would be a red flag for me.

If you want to learn exploration, join an organization that specialized in that like https://www.eve-scout.com/signal-cartel/ There are people there who can teach you the what, where, when, why and how of scanning like a pro.

Industry is a bit trickier - I don't know any corporations that specialize in research,manufacturing and markets although they probably exist. A lot of industrialists are solo with an army of ALTS. Industry in Eve is incredibly profitable once you know how - largely because most activities are background - jobs don't care if you are logged in or not - so they scale well across multiple characters.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2017-05-08 18:53:25 UTC
FWIW, I consider myself an industrialist, though I also will PvP (I enjoy the logistics role).

I own many billions worth of BPO. I can build nearly everything except supercapitals.

I generally purchase stuff I use from the market, rather than building it for myself.

I generally also purchase all the materials I use for manufacturing. [My nulsec alt tends to mine everything needed for T1 manufacturing, as it can be practical to do that in nulsec, unlike in hisec.]

Trying to source raw materials yourself is VERY time-consuming, and in some cases impossible (e.g. high-end moon products).

I own 4 Charon freighters (the largest capacity) for hauling Tritanium in hisec that I buy. I could never mine that amount myself.
Tormen Soth
Disciples of the Ebon Dragon
#16 - 2017-05-08 19:05:23 UTC
Thank you everyone for the great advice and sorry about the rage. I just didn't expect to take such a beating from an NPC, I will be more aware next time.
Rexxar Santaro
Forex Corp
#17 - 2017-05-08 19:09:44 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Hello Omega player and welcome to Eve,

First you have to learn how to crawl before you can learn how to walk, then you have to learn how to run after that.

Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance. Information Is King And Conversation Is It's Queen.




The best post of the day
about EVE online gameplay.
Othran
Route One
#18 - 2017-05-08 21:49:00 UTC
Tormen Soth wrote:
Thank you everyone for the great advice and sorry about the rage. I just didn't expect to take such a beating from an NPC, I will be more aware next time.


I've lost count of how many PvPrs I've ripped the **** out of when they lost a ship to NPCs because they got the tank resistances the wrong way round for the local rats :)

You are going to **** up so many times in Eve you won't believe it. If you progress enough/stay long enough something you do WILL get a fleet welped. It'll happen and you're going to have to put your hand up & say "my fault guys, sorry about that". You might not even be the FC, a bubble popped 5 seconds early can result in a lot of wrecks in your fleet Roll

/me has been there on a lot of this as you might be able to tell Lol

Doing an after-action report if its PvP is useful on corp forums as your recollection as FC is absolutely certain to wildly diverge from others, but its all a learning process.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2017-05-09 00:59:11 UTC
Do Little wrote:

The mere fact that you have been using skill injectors tells me you are placing far too much emphasis on character skill.

Do Little makes an excellent point here. If you come to this game thinking that skill points are what are holding you back so you buy them to get around that, you will soon find your self to still be a very new player in a somewhat higher skill point character that is still getting your backside handed to you. It is at this point that many new players decide that the game is either unfair or too hard.

IMHO the truth is that you just need to learn this game and no amount of skill points can shortcut that. If you take the time to learn your lessons ( most of which will be earned the hard way ) then you can become a good player. Typically by the point that you've put the time and effort in to become good at this game your skill point will have kept up with you.

In most other games you need to be level capped before you can even think about participating in anything fun. In Eve there is no level cap and no end game. There are plenty of videos of vets kicking butt on very very low skill point alts.

As a new character you can participate in a meaningful way in nearly every activity in game. As a new player you probably don't even know what 80% of those activities are much less have any ability to participate.

So just have fun, try out a bunch of different stuff, do more of what you like, and don't be afraid to blow up.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

CMDR-HerpyDerpy Hurishima
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2017-05-09 01:53:46 UTC
Tormen Soth wrote:
So is there a reason now that every NPC I run into is immune to all damage and completely shuts down any form of escape. I just tried with a vexor and like the others, you are just left there with nothing you can do but watch....completely ********!!

Either theres a sansha incursion in your system (i dont actualy know what that is but everyones mentioning it) OR you attacked some Sleepers without realising, those fellas will hunt you down until you're dead if you attack them, you can identify them by their names (just search eve sleepers in google, read there) or just when you jump into where enemies are, click the target and select *Look at target" if it has a blue shining ball anywhere on it, its a sleeper
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