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Why does Amarr get the shaft in PvP?

Author
Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
#1 - 2017-05-07 21:57:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Desmios Sanguis
Hey all,

I've been Amarr all my life and recently switched to PvP -- what surprised me is how insanely little amarr is used; nearly everything is caldari/gallente/minmatar. The only exception I can find is the legion, guardian (cap buddy) and capitals.

Any idea why this is?
Jacques d'Orleans
#2 - 2017-05-07 21:59:25 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Hey all,

I've been Amarr all my life and recently switched to PvP -- what surprised me is how insanely little amarr is used; nearly everything is caldari/gallente/minmatar. The only exception I can find is the legion and capitals.

Any idea why this is?


Well, maybe because the Empress would be not amused when there are some scratches in your gold plated pimp boats. Lol
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#3 - 2017-05-07 22:16:35 UTC
In general, the small gang meta leans more towards kiting at the moment.

Amarr ships tend to have lots of low slots, few mid slots, are heavy on cap use for lasers and have small drone bandwidth.

While the slicer and Omen Navy Issue are good kiting ships, in general the factors above make Amarr often more suited to brawling, so people look elsewhere first.
Wanda Fayne
#4 - 2017-05-07 22:59:21 UTC
Top 10 on Zkill shows different.
Minmatar 4
Caldari, Gallente, Amarr 1 each
Navy/Faction 3

You make a pretty broad statement to cover ALL pvp, perhaps you want to be more meta-specific.
Malediction is hot right now (#4)

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Desmios Sanguis
Tax-Free Foundation
#5 - 2017-05-07 23:24:04 UTC
What would you say is the best subcap PvP amarr ship for nullsec roam gangs? (DPS)

Sentinel for EWAR,
Legion for T3
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2017-05-07 23:28:21 UTC
Once upon a time in the dark ages of EVE, there were no stacking penalties.
Back then you could 8 Heatsink Amarr Battleships, and get amazing DPS.
Since then Amarr have been nerfed on several fronts but people still live in fear of the old DPS, and don't want to see Amass > All happen again.

This leaves Amarr in a few specialised niches, & when you need a tanky armour hull, but the difference in tank often isn't enough at the large fleet level, and the speed issue is too much at the smaller level.
Generally they do 'ok' though, just not the perfect ship for most metas, and people tend towards the perfect ship.
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
#7 - 2017-05-07 23:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rovinia
It depends. The frigate and T1 destroyer line up suffers a bit from the lack of Med-Slots (and so utility) in small gangs or solo pvp. But they have very good (fleet) ships in the other lines.

The Confessor is a popular T3 destroyer.
Arbitrator and Omen are very solid cruisers in small gangs.
Prophecy is the best brawler BC's out there.
The Armageddon is by far my favorit T1 battleship in the game.
And the caps are very good anyways.

That's from a small gang perspective though.
Maxim Corvinus
Royal Armaments
#8 - 2017-05-08 01:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Maxim Corvinus
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
What would you say is the best subcap PvP amarr ship for nullsec roam gangs? (DPS)

Sentinel for EWAR,
Legion for T3


That entirely depends on what other ships are in that gang and what&who you'll be fighting. Fighting idiots is entirely different from fighting properly good and organised groups. However, the best choice will almost never be Amarr mostly because small gangs tend to rely on speed and agility to avoid trouble they can't handle. Two things Amarr generally doesn't do well.

The real issue in most situations is that Amarr isn't very versatile, which is a negative way of stating that they are very focussed. Versatility allows for adaptation which is pretty much a necessity when going into hostile space and roam, as you never really know what you'll run in to.

That all means that, in general, Amarr can do well if you have a good idea what you'll be fighting and can make a line up & plan (hate the word doctrine) where each ship type has a well defined role, a role that fits an Amarr ship that's focussed on that specific play style. This however requires a level of planning, intel, teamwork and discipline most people and groups are unwilling or incapable of achieving.
Cade Windstalker
#9 - 2017-05-08 02:46:30 UTC
Amarr aren't unused, by any means (Confessor anyone?) but like every race they have things they're good and bad at, and places they see more use than others.

Without knowing what sort of PvP you're trying to do it's kinda hard to say, but the Confessor, Legion, and Damnation are all top-tier ships in their area of play, just as an example, so it's hardly fair to say that Amarr as a whole get shafted. Oh and the Nightmare is seeing a ton of use in Null right now, though that's Sansha.
Wanda Fayne
#10 - 2017-05-08 04:39:12 UTC
Devoter is a hot ship, likely to get better after the T3 rebalance.

Curse is a good ship too.

Every race has some lemons though...Blink

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Algathas
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#11 - 2017-05-08 05:06:37 UTC
Also the Imperial Navy Slicer is a great ship for pvp.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#12 - 2017-05-08 09:45:47 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Devoter is a hot ship, likely to get better after the T3 rebalance.

Just what have HICs and T3 rebalance in common?

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Beast of Revelations
Multiverse Trading
#13 - 2017-05-08 09:53:23 UTC
I've played for years, and Amarr has never been considered "good" during my Eve career. Actually, they even used to be considered WORSE, back before they made armor tanking a little better with nanite injection paste, and back when beam and tachyon lasers sucked.

During my entire Eve career, flavor of the month has mostly swapped between Winmatar and Gallente.

In addition to the speed/agility thing people mention (over time the game balance has progressively been skewed to smaller ships, and faster more agile ships), lasers have drawbacks without much in the way of advantages. They eat the most cap of any weapon, draw the most power (I think), and can only do EM/thermal damage.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2017-05-08 10:04:20 UTC
Several of the frigates are good.

In the higher end, you pretty much have to buffer fit because Amarr ships don't have enough mids to run dual booster + prop + web+point or scram, or just not run lasers as your weapons system (i.e. Geddon, Autobaddon, Blastaddon). Large pulse lasers track very badly inside web/scram range, shiny web optional. The two big-laser ships which don't have this problem are the Bhaalgorn (web range bonus) and the NM (tracking bonus + shiny web = deathtrap).

Amarr ships do have their uses, like...

Not-cyno-I-swear 60k EHP Maller.

Neut-from-30km Geddon before shiny. X-type neut can apply from 48km optimal/68km first falloff. And drone damage bonus with 5 heavy drones. Unless your geddon also packs seriously heavy tank, you don't want this ship to be on your target's face.

The laserboat battleships which can actually apply damage are the Nightmare (tracking bonus + shiny web = deathtrap) and Bhaalgorn (web range bonus which overlaps nicely with conflag/multifreq/xray optimal on mega pulse)

The (N)Apoc is a reasonably powerful fleet ship. It doesn't have any damage bonuses, but application means at least one of them can hit what it's shooting at.

The Navy geddon is a nice pos basher. Fit some polarized mega pulse, fit the lows with heatsinks and DDA, and point it at the offending structure. The only problem with it as a fleet ship is the Nightmare and Bhaalgorn are cheaper and better. Still, if you have a lot of ISK and want someone to pick a fight they shouldn't, it's worth looking at. Tech 2 guns with this active tank starve it for CPU. A lot.

The Harb can almost get away with a dual-rep+cap booster fit because of the cap efficiency bonus on its guns. Scram kite is kinda iffy because its optimal is at the edge of scram range. The biggest problem with this idea is: space is full of T3C which do more damage, tank a lot better, and have a lot better control of range and angular velocity.

A signature :o

Algathas
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#15 - 2017-05-08 16:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Algathas
Beast of Revelations wrote:
I've played for years, and Amarr has never been considered "good" during my Eve career. Actually, they even used to be considered WORSE, back before they made armor tanking a little better with nanite injection paste, and back when beam and tachyon lasers sucked.

During my entire Eve career, flavor of the month has mostly swapped between Winmatar and Gallente.

In addition to the speed/agility thing people mention (over time the game balance has progressively been skewed to smaller ships, and faster more agile ships), lasers have drawbacks without much in the way of advantages. They eat the most cap of any weapon, draw the most power (I think), and can only do EM/thermal damage.


Lasers have great optimal range so they have good damage application within most of their full range. In a lot of cases I have found that even if on paper the laser shows as being less DPS vs other weapon types, in actual combat the lasers do great. As for the cap issues, most of the Amarr ships have stronger base cap with a few exceptions. Plus most battles don't last long enough for the cap stability to be too much of an issue, especially since you are usually not running all your active mods at once (giving you more cap than the default settings that the fitting tool shows).
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#16 - 2017-05-08 20:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Omen Navy Issue (ONI) is one of CO2's most popular doctrines.
Wig
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2017-05-08 20:27:29 UTC
The Redeemer is also one of the more popular Black ops vessels.

Francis Raven
ExDominion
Evictus.
#18 - 2017-05-08 20:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Francis Raven
• Imperial Navy Slicer
• Legion
• Confessor
• Omen and Omen Navy Issue
• Tormentor
• Pontifex
• Aug Navy Issue
• Maller
• Curse
• Devoter

The above are all very suitable for small-gang PVP in a various of styles: Roaming, gate camping, harassment. There are really quite a few options, and all factions have GREAT pvp ships.

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#19 - 2017-05-08 21:26:41 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Hey all,

I've been Amarr all my life and recently switched to PvP -- what surprised me is how insanely little amarr is used; nearly everything is caldari/gallente/minmatar. The only exception I can find is the legion, guardian (cap buddy) and capitals.

Any idea why this is?



Because the Amarr are too uptight to get the shaft anywhere else.

(Sorry. Couldn't help it)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Briar Thrain
Arcana Noctis
#20 - 2017-05-08 23:05:20 UTC
I agree with many of the above, 'good' is always going to be situational in eve. I for one really like the amarr style and ship line. Many Amarr ships however require solid skill training to shine in what they do. How about that Sacrilege guys? I mean, i killed a guy in a Rattlesnake with one once - obviously a lower skilled guy without a solid pvp fit, but still.

imho there are 2 kinds of players who say Amarr is not good at pvp, those who are committed to a different race and talk smack, and those who lack the brains or expericne to fit their ships / pilot well.