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Just to put things in perspective.

Author
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#41 - 2017-05-05 14:28:52 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
I will give some example: EVE UI was always scolded for its ruggedness when I joined.

They did not have even loot button until 2011 or something like that. Lol

So if anybody expects CCP to act quickly with EVE, even with competition breathing down their neck, he will be dissapointed again and again. And there were times people resigned because they just could not be bothered to wait any longer for stuff happening. While CCP tried to discover america all over again with console gaming or VR gaming or vampire games. CCP brings it on itself.


There is no competition breathing down EVE's neck.

How many times does this have to be proven, wasn't SWG, SWTOR, Jumpgate, Black Prophecy, Star Trek Online, Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky enough proof of this?

Yes, they are breathing down. And its not only about spaceship games. EVE is a niche game for a reason. And I will even give you one example, when Fallout 4 had its premiere, active player numbers visibly dropped.
But there you have them those spaceship games, its also the reason some players left EVE. They are definitely competing with EVE. All around.

But keep patting yourself on the back, like CCP. 🤦


And those numbers rebounded. And , frankly, the hysteria around 'competition' is nothing more than anxiety on some people's part.

When SC comes out in 2032 and EVE still survives, what game will you imagine is going to Kill EVE next? Elite: Super Duper Dangerous IX maybe?
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#42 - 2017-05-05 14:40:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
I will give some example: EVE UI was always scolded for its ruggedness when I joined.

They did not have even loot button until 2011 or something like that. Lol

So if anybody expects CCP to act quickly with EVE, even with competition breathing down their neck, he will be dissapointed again and again. And there were times people resigned because they just could not be bothered to wait any longer for stuff happening. While CCP tried to discover america all over again with console gaming or VR gaming or vampire games. CCP brings it on itself.


There is no competition breathing down EVE's neck.

How many times does this have to be proven, wasn't SWG, SWTOR, Jumpgate, Black Prophecy, Star Trek Online, Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky enough proof of this?

Yes, they are breathing down. And its not only about spaceship games. EVE is a niche game for a reason. And I will even give you one example, when Fallout 4 had its premiere, active player numbers visibly dropped.
But there you have them those spaceship games, its also the reason some players left EVE. They are definitely competing with EVE. All around.

But keep patting yourself on the back, like CCP. 🤦


And those numbers rebounded. And , frankly, the hysteria around 'competition' is nothing more than anxiety on some people's part.

When SC comes out in 2032 and EVE still survives, what game will you imagine is going to Kill EVE next? Elite: Super Duper Dangerous IX maybe?

When will you realize that EVE is dying already?
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#43 - 2017-05-05 14:43:52 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:

When will you realize that EVE is dying already?


Oh, you mean like it has been for the last 14 years?
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#44 - 2017-05-05 14:49:26 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis
#45 - 2017-05-05 15:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
I started almost 10 years ago to the day - 21.05.07.

I knew absolutely nothing, the market window? different types of ships - I thought they were just cosmetic differences - my ship could be shot at and destroyed? - even when this happened to my trusty Velator on my second day I did not understand what had happened, why was I suddenly in this egg thing? we got wardecced early on, but a decent more experienced player taught us how to warp to gate etc so we could at least attempt to fight back, and so on...

It was my complete lack of knowledge which actually made me stick the game - I signed up on my fifth day - the idea of trying to understand a game about which I was (and still am) clueless really appealed to me. I liked and still like trying to work out in-game things for myself.

Eve Online will never be a mass appeal game, nor should it try to be.

There is a lot of 'I'm a nasty geezer' posturing in the game, but in my experience most players most of the time are more than willing to give advice - even if they have just ganked your favourite shiny new ship.

So long as CCP make a fair profit from us dedicated players they should be happy.

Those who want it all, often end up with nothing.

This is not a signature.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#46 - 2017-05-05 15:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Quote:
Those who want it all, often end up with nothing.


I dont think someone "wants it all", just particular things he/she likes, but if you take into account more people, it can be such way that they want it all, and CCP just throws the towel and does their own thing.

Still, knowing how CCP works, we will get only few things in a later, later time.
I only hope we are not getting more GONGs and stuff nobody asked for. 🤦
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#47 - 2017-05-05 16:00:42 UTC
Cybertherion wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I interaction with other players is a positive experience in EVE.



Quote the thing^

Only if you like cigarettes, cancer and toxicity. If you had capitalised Players, then YES.

Eve is ugly. It's like a darkweb site for torturepron. BUT that's what makes it shine like a Brown Dwarf in the dimmest regions of cyberspace.

Your last paragraph isn't my experience in the game at all, however perhaps better wording would have been, interaction with other plays is a rich experience, which is what CCP believe in any case.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
As for learning stuff about the game, in my opinion the first, last and only source a player should need to check should be provided by CCP. At least for mechanics/interface stuff like "how do you start an Alliance?", which was something I tried to learn the last time I was playing the game...

CCP have made it pretty clear that won't be the case, however I agree with where it comes to new players, the balance sits towards making things understandable (not necessarily easy, but at least understandable).

I don't see creating an Alliance as being a new player activity. Joining a Corp, absolutely. But creating an Alliance is something you do in the game only after already joining a Corp and having other Corps to form and Alliance with.

In that case, it's no surprise that it relies more on player made information than CCP made information. It's not a basic thing and something most people in the game will never do.

Joining/being part of a Corp though, CCP provides 3 in game videos on that:

https://puu.sh/vGutP/cbcacaf6ea.png

After that, no more hand holding and we should be able to figure out the more complex aspects from there.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#48 - 2017-05-05 16:10:13 UTC
A lot to unpack here so I can't respond to all the things I think this brings out.

When I first started Eve something like 13 years ago Eve was less. Fewer ships, Fewer player options, No alliances, no moons to fight over, less null, just the beginning of "meta". Eve was checkers compared to chess that it is today.

So CCP could have left it checkers. If they had there would be the same couple of hundred players that were happy with that. But CCP wanted more so they gave us more. They have mostly remained true there original concept. Eve is dark, evil and harsh. But now you went from the basic crayon set to the full several hundreds to chose from. But the challenge remains the same. Make something unique with the set of basic colors you have. This is complicated and not easy to learn for some folks. Talented or dedicated folks can make a masterpiece with that basic 8 color set. Less capable people are still going to draw crap even if they have 200 colors with 19 different shades of blue to choose from.

CCP has made several attempts to teach the new players to color. Mostly they fail. The last time I was a CSM member they rolled out a new NPE and I committed to exploring that. I tried to start a new character with no prior knowlege affecting my choices, maybe that was impossible. The result was a chatacter that if you had come from another game and believed what you were told was going to become a space artist! Yes, that was the explicit career path I was told my character was optimized for. I have yet to find that opportunity to make a living as an Eve pod pilot artist. So they NPE basically lied but sure made the game sound richer.

So is Eve easier now? No, in fact I'd suggest maybe harder because there is more to sort out and you probably start with some very wrong ideas of that to expect in Eve.

Sure you may get a few free perks like a ship from some early missions but if you've played Eve for long do you really think of that as a big thing? Once you get the basics you'd earn that ship of that is what you wanted.

So after 13+ years did Eve get me what I thought i wanted? No, I was expecting a richer crafting experience where for example I could invent a whole new type of ship. I still think we need that. But what I got was way beyond what I expected. I found a social challenge I could never have expected. I learned I prefer a game where there is no end, no winning. It is up to me to decide what success is. The fact that Eve lets me do that in space is bonus!

Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2017-05-05 17:21:48 UTC
I started playing a bit later than some of you, in 2008 to be specific. At that time the NPE was as steep as it ever was from CCP. What made it a good experience for me was there was already a ton of information from the player community and even some vets in faction warfare taking the newbros like me under their wing. People who fought against one another (at that time) would even help a new player understand what they did wrong more often than not. Fast forward nine years CCP has made some honest attempts to make the NPE more newbie friendly, but the community still has the edge with videos, wikis and some damn fine alliances that will show a new player how to get stuff done. Game wise CCP has added a lot of new things (not all for the players benefit) and they are continuing to develop new tech (VR) adding content and they are on the third major upgrade to the servers for better performance, graphics and legacy code upgrades (brain in a box). NPC's are getting an upgrade, moon mining is being changed (for the much better IMO) and stations are being changed dramatically in a way that makes sense.
I think CCP tinkering with VR will have long lasting impacts to the way video games (and everything else) are played. Their foray into DUST 514 with FPS was ill fated to an extent as they were chasing a medium that was already well played. VR is future tech and them working on the cusp of it I think only bodes well for CCP and EvE.

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose. Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#50 - 2017-05-05 17:40:01 UTC
It would definitely be a worse experience if there would be no Evelopedia that time around when I started playing, beginning of 2011.

Still every time I play EVE I use wikis. But they are not hosted by CCP now.

Thankfully playerbase keeps this game on the life support. while CCP already seeks for their next patient.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#51 - 2017-05-05 19:42:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Unfortunately we can't look for that article at the time I was looking for this information, but it's the first time I see it despite how I checked back then all results from the first two pages that weren't Tentonhammer and the like.

Then again, IMO that place should be created and maintained (and updated) by CCP, not some random guy(s). It's their function in their UI for their software and they aren't a dead company nor EVE is a legacy product as to justify how they don't document it.


The Joy of exploring comes from not having a map. What would have happened if Magellan of Leif Erikson had said "dude, I can't go there, I ain't got a map"! Figuring things out for yourself brings with it a feeling of accomplishment and those kinds of feelings bind people to the game.

CCP has largely been killing things that generate those feelings. In most cases you don't even have to use the internet anymore, some pop up will explain everything you need to know. The thrice damned Mission Guidance system is the perfect example.

"Easy and well documented" is just bad for a game like EVE man. Again notice that before all these pop ups and guidance systems and improved NPE experience etc, EVE was GROWING and damn enar as soon as they hit their stride with all that stuff and the rest of the dumbing down ("Easy to learn, hard to master" in 2012), the PCU stats started to decline and CCP clammed up about subscription numbers.



I am not saying "easy", but the "well documented" part is essential, IMO. A good documentation serves a double function: it answers and it invites. "This is how you do it, now do it yourself". A player doesn't wants to do what he doesn't knows that can be done. And trust me, if you rely on players imagining what they would want to do and figure a way to do it with EVE, you'll end up with lots of disappointed palyers as for anything you can do in EVE, there are 1,000 things you CAN'T do.

Like, flying your ship into a station and land it manually.
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