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Cool It With the ISK Sinks

First post First post
Author
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2017-05-04 07:40:03 UTC
One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month.

In looking at these reports lately the supply of ISK in game has been quite flat. Further, inflation is actually deflation. A small amount of deflation in an economy is fine. A large amount is bad. If one can earn say 10%/annum or more by simply not spending ISK then spending may very well collapse or take a serious hit. This is what happened during the Great Depression. The Fed let the money supply collapse which in turn resulted in consumption spending collapsing and thus taking a garden variety recession into a depression.

And let’s keep in mind that CCP Quant is using a modified Laspeyres index function which will actually overstate inflation or understate deflation. Ideally a superlative index function should be used like a superlative index function like in the sense of Fisher, Törnqvist, or Walsh. These indices will treat price increases/decreases symmetrically and not result in a bias. That is, if anything deflation is being under-reported.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#2 - 2017-05-04 07:42:40 UTC
So... EVE is Dying™?

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2017-05-04 07:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Teckos Pech wrote:
One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month.

It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan.

More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs.

As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees.

Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again.

Shaetads for CSM!

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#4 - 2017-05-04 07:47:15 UTC
Quote:
Carebear Elite


Ty sugar

Also what ever is OP saying im sure its on the spot.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Salvos Rhoska
#5 - 2017-05-04 07:49:29 UTC
Nardos Tatio
Doomheim
#6 - 2017-05-04 08:02:54 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month.

It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan.

More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs.

As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees.

Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again.

Shaetads for CSM!


I rather see a forest cut down then have to deal with ONE wolf......

Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017......

Time for a change.....
Falafel Express
Oriental Fastfood
#7 - 2017-05-04 08:04:49 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What is causing deflation?



Is explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVI2cv6oQl8
Salvos Rhoska
#8 - 2017-05-04 08:06:22 UTC
Falafel Express wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What is causing deflation?

Is explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVI2cv6oQl8


I see.
The economy is being sat on by a masked pervert.
It all makes sense now.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2017-05-04 08:10:46 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What is causing deflation?

Rorqal and capship proliferation. The nullbears are printing ridiculous amounts of ISK-and ridiculous amounts of materials to turn into capships and other things. Have you noticed how PL has taken to dreadbombing Rorqals these days? Even dreads used to be a pretty big deal. Not so much any more.

A signature :o

Jacques d'Orleans
#10 - 2017-05-04 08:38:17 UTC
Nardos Tatio wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month.

It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan.

More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs.

As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees.

Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again.

Shaetads for CSM!


I rather see a forest cut down then have to deal with ONE wolf......

Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017......

Time for a change.....


Relevant
Salvos Rhoska
#11 - 2017-05-04 08:50:14 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What is causing deflation?

Rorqal and capship proliferation. The nullbears are printing ridiculous amounts of ISK-and ridiculous amounts of materials to turn into capships and other things. Have you noticed how PL has taken to dreadbombing Rorqals these days? Even dreads used to be a pretty big deal. Not so much any more.



Teckos:

Do you agree with this assessment?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2017-05-04 08:58:36 UTC
Nardos Tatio wrote:
Time for a change.....

Totally. I already stated that.

Drain the Carebear swamp.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2017-05-04 10:14:34 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What is causing deflation?



Unpatched gonflable dolls. Use duct tape.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2017-05-04 10:53:31 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month.

It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan.

More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs.

As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees.

Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again.

Shaetads for CSM!



Now, I'm not saying I agree with OP's rationalization... But this post really caught my eye.

In my eight years of lurking on EVEs forums, and various blogs the playerbase have put up, I feel as though the ones truly calling out to CCP for changes, the ones constantly gnashing their teeth and equipping sackcloth for clothes have not been the carebears, but those who vehemently claim to not be carebears.

Rarely do I read about a legitimate attempt to get a PvP style nerfed that isn't a thinly veiled troll. (Mostly from another PvP'er.) But boy howdy, the conspiracy theories on what them durn ol carebears are plotting this time read like Doctor Claws journal. Which is itself interesting. Carebears can be ineffectual, whining complainers, or they can be dastardly, hyper-nefarious plotters... But they cant be both, my friends. You only derail your own narrarive when you claim that the people you prey on for not defending themselves are also scheming to destroy you and have Illuminati style agendas.


Kind of like Pyschotic Monk. The man could pen an interesting read. But for being a self-styled "Prince" of HTFU, he sure did spend a lot of bandwidth crying about carebears, up to and including rage-quitting because CCP wouldn't agree with how he wanted the game to be played.
Salvos Rhoska
#15 - 2017-05-04 11:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Im not an economist, and I only superficially understand the science of it.

Im genuinely interested what is causing deflation in EVE.
I may not understand much of the nuances, but Im not stupid either, and recognize it is important for the health of the game.

When I look at the charts, pretty much all I see to understand, is the pronounced/deprecated figures here and there.

Ive myself proposed that "isk sinks are good", but some posts by Teckos in particular have helped me understand there is more at stake.

I havent, and dont know how, to scientifically track the rate of inflation in EVE.
If he says its deflating, and that perhaps another metric for measuring it by CCP would be better, I cant argue that either way.

But Id like to know what the extant factors are that are perceived to be causing it.
That should be something that would be understandable and demonstrable even to economy plebs like me.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2017-05-04 11:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Citadels are too cheap, easy to build and very easy to replace. They provide the logistic base for complex industrial operations. Time is isk and having a citadel in the right spot greatly enhances the speed at which a product gets to destination. If you ad the recently introduced rorqual enhancements you get the present massive influx on the market.


Bear


p.s.

Now I'm waiting for a null bear to come in and post how High Sec is responsible for the deflation.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#17 - 2017-05-04 11:29:06 UTC
lol economists
like weather reporters, they don't get fired for being wrong, in fact they shore up their credibility by explaining to ten decimal places what else happened other than what they predicted.
Money is a form of rationing.
What amazes me is how the economy doesn't grind to a halt with everybody having three of everything, the resources spawn most days and no way is the ship/structure loss covering all that.





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2017-05-04 11:33:57 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
lol economists
like weather reporters, they don't get fired for being wrong, in fact they shore up their credibility by explaining to ten decimal places what else happened other than what they predicted.
Money is a form of rationing.
What amazes me is how the economy doesn't grind to a halt with everybody having three of everything, the resources spawn most days and no way is the ship/structure loss covering all that.








In both, war and economics, the success of an operation greatly depends on how effective the supply lines are. In the current configuration the ship/structure loss is never going to cover anything at all.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Salvos Rhoska
#19 - 2017-05-04 11:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
I find it hard to rationalize how isk sinks would be the problem.
The most prominent among them are standard operating costs that havent been increased.

Especially now that Citadels sidestep NPC taxes/fees on a great deal of services.
This alone should have retained substantially more isk in the market.

What are the primary theories on cause of deflation in EVE?

Note: That 92% of bounty faucet is earned in NS blew my mind.
Furthermore, it completely overshadows WH blue/overseer loot.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2017-05-04 11:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I find it hard to rationalize how isk sinks would be the problem.

Especially now that Citadels sidestep NPC taxes/fees on a great deal of services.
This alone should have retained substantially more isk in the market.

What are the primary theories on cause of deflation in EVE?



Isk sink is a general term for a rationing system that covers a very large area. You, having commited gankery and buying tags to increase your sec status is an isk sink. You, having commited repeated gankery that got you -10 sec status and plexing an alt to be able to carebear in peace is also an isk sink. Buying and injecting skills on the created alt is also an isk sink etc etc etc. Eve is above everything else a game of alts and that is the most major isk sink in the game.

When the mother of dragons, which is your main, sits on a massive pile that can cover all your alts needs, you no longer supply from the market but from the main, while being able to massively downbid everything until it ceases to be profitable.

How many mothers of dragons are in the game only CCP knows...

Bear

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

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