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Realy Upset on the Leadership Skills Training

Author
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#21 - 2017-01-29 14:41:28 UTC
VKMceo wrote:
SO I HOPE THIS CLARIFIES My point on the loss.

After almost ten years, you cannot expect to come back to the same game. So all you have to do is inform yourself about the new situation and build a setup that works for what you want to do with todays mechanics and tools.

Remove standings and insurance.

Grim Pac Rian
Tech Knights
Interplay
#22 - 2017-04-09 03:54:18 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
VKMceo wrote:
Sorry been away from my Fav GAME of ALL TIME for to long. But here is why I am upset about the Leadership Skills change. I am the Ceo of a very small corp in the game and have trained on certain AVATARS these skills in the areas of combat and mining. Did this cause as a small corp we don't own an Cap ships or the cap mining ships. So the bonuses of fleeting my AVATARS does not apply and being in a small corp these skill sets are now useless to me and have no meaning to Fleet mining or Fleet mission running. this Blows and would Like to see the bonuses back as they were even in full skilled tiny to compared with the bonuses of cap ship and industrial ships bonuses when alone or with the Fleet ops. Again u killed the little guys right to these Bonuses and that sucks.TwistedTwistedEvilEvilCryCry

Erm ... the bonuses work the same for all ships, including sub-capitals.

Not only can every battlecruiser / command ship fit command bursts (unchanged), but so can command destroyers (introduced Dec 2015). T3 can still fit bursts, too.

For a small mining corp, the Porpoise (introduced Nov 2016) is the perfect mining booster when an Orca isn't available.

There are more boosting options now than before.

Plus, there are skill extractors and injectors shoul you really want to get rid of skills, or re-arrange skill points.


Example: My boosting alt is still boosting in missions using an Eos, adding DPS with his drones, and doing some remote-repping too. When I'm mining, he's in an Orca giving mining and shield bonuses. I'm a solo player with 4 subscribed accounts + Alpha account.


Skill extractors or injectors are not a viable option. At 500k sp requirement to even use the extractor. NOT TO MENTION you have to have over 5.5 million sp to activate the thing. The cost versus versatility way undersided
Grim Pac Rian
Tech Knights
Interplay
#23 - 2017-04-09 03:58:31 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
The Porpoise is not a nulsec ship. It would be perfect for you. It costs about 70 million ISK, about the same as a battlecruiser.

Yes, there is no-longer a "free lunch". You have to use a burst module to get a bonus.

However, it is a good change.


The orca was never a free lunch. It's just another annotation on the list of expenses in order to mine. The availability of boost usually someone is charging fo the boost and if they aren't it's a tip the driver mentality. Most the time the orca pilot ends up eat up the very bonuses you are getting.
Grim Pac Rian
Tech Knights
Interplay
#24 - 2017-04-09 04:04:27 UTC
The poor is not a viable option all it is, is a pacifier. So guys like you can say "you got options" the miner does not have the wealth of options the same pve pvp attention gores have. The ships are there but can use them because most don't have any tank so they are worthless. The coveted and retriever are just big signs saying I don't have armor or shield skills nothing more. Our options are so small that they actually point us out in a crowd. Eve should be dangerous? Yup sure should should be hard to find your target to.
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2017-04-12 16:45:25 UTC
Grim Pac Rian wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
The Porpoise is not a nulsec ship. It would be perfect for you. It costs about 70 million ISK, about the same as a battlecruiser.

Yes, there is no-longer a "free lunch". You have to use a burst module to get a bonus.

However, it is a good change.


The orca was never a free lunch. It's just another annotation on the list of expenses in order to mine. The availability of boost usually someone is charging fo the boost and if they aren't it's a tip the driver mentality. Most the time the orca pilot ends up eat up the very bonuses you are getting.




Rubbish..

I've been mining in all areas of space for just about 5 years..

Not once in all that time have I ever been asked for isk or ore or anything to receive any boosts, nor have I heard of anyone being charged, nor have I ever charged for boosts regardless of which ship I'm using.

I don't believe a word you're saying.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Professor Sternu Tarantoga
Queens of the Drone Age
#26 - 2017-04-13 13:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Professor Sternu Tarantoga
All those long posts that essentially just say :
I am upset that my off-grid boosts are on grid-now. But on the other hand I somewhat know that this change was a good one. So instead of just going for "gimme back my off-grid booster" people make up stuff why the new on-grid boosters are bad.
William Ormono
Reason Will Prevail
#27 - 2017-04-13 19:50:33 UTC
ShockedShockedShocked

Jeshaus Gawd this thread made my brain hurt.


@VKMceo did you write this on your 2001 Nokia flip phone? I can't remember the last time I saw someone spend so much time writing down their thoughts and so little time making sure what they said made sense.
Zodric
The Final Resistance
#28 - 2017-05-02 18:22:01 UTC
Some of these comments have been a bit incoherent so if anyone feel I'm repeating someones comment, bare with me.

I also recently came back to the game 1-2 months ago, I have almost 9mil. SP in fleet support that, to me, is now utterly useless.
I trained these skills back in the day to be able to provide passive and active boosts as a fleet or wing commander, though mostly passive as I then didn't tie myself down to a specific ship. Now since I have always hated caps and cap warfare, I have never and will never get into those ships and as such I'm limited to BC's and Command Destroyers. Now BC's are never used anymore, they are simply too slow and doesn't fit in on any roam, then we have the command destroyers, which basically prints a bullseye on my face and makes me primary in any fight...

Using skill extractors are really not an option, it's very expensive to extract and I have too many skill points to get a decent return.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#29 - 2017-05-03 17:22:07 UTC
Zodric wrote:
Some of these comments have been a bit incoherent so if anyone feel I'm repeating someones comment, bare with me.

I also recently came back to the game 1-2 months ago, I have almost 9mil. SP in fleet support that, to me, is now utterly useless.
I trained these skills back in the day to be able to provide passive and active boosts as a fleet or wing commander, though mostly passive as I then didn't tie myself down to a specific ship. Now since I have always hated caps and cap warfare, I have never and will never get into those ships and as such I'm limited to BC's and Command Destroyers. Now BC's are never used anymore, they are simply too slow and doesn't fit in on any roam, then we have the command destroyers, which basically prints a bullseye on my face and makes me primary in any fight...

Using skill extractors are really not an option, it's very expensive to extract and I have too many skill points to get a decent return.

I have two alts currently training Leadership skills.

I assure you that Battlecruiser usage is alive and well. For example, CO2 has two NEW doctrines: Drakes (yes, really) and Hurricanes. Also, my CO2 alt earns a living building Battlecruisers.

Battlecruisers are quite amazing now that they can boost themselves. Same applies to all three mining command ships.

Command Destroyers are one of the ships of choice for solo and small-gang harassment of enemies in their home territory. A corpmate uses a Bifrost solo, and has racked-up a huge amount of kills.
KenFlorian
Knight Odds
Trigger Happy.
#30 - 2017-05-04 01:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: KenFlorian
Let me know when you discover that Tau or Do Little or Mephiztopheleze make an error when commenting on "industry" for then I shall be obliged to eat my hat.
Zodric
The Final Resistance
#31 - 2017-05-04 17:18:53 UTC
I understand what you mean Tau, I don't have a problem with command bursts, same as links before, they have their useful areas.
My problem is the passives, 10% shield, 10% armor and so on, they are completely gone.
They were the main reason I trained these skills as they could be applied to a fleet of any size, they were a great investment... Comparing to now, the nerf bat hit hard, they are edge case, BC doctrines as you mention, honestly it's a fleet style I don't like, as with any other large doctrine fleet, I much prefer a mixed small-medium sized roam full of chaos and explosions.
So I can solo in a Command Destroyer, as you mention, I would probably enjoy that, but again, edge case. Having an entire skill group go from awesome in any situation to this... it's not okay, they should have refunded the skill points so people had the option to invest them in a playstyle that fits them.

On a side-note, having the skill group called "Fleet Support" and the only, for me, useful application is solo CD... oh the irony :D
Sylvia Kildare
Flux Divinity
#32 - 2017-05-05 12:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Kildare
Yeah... needing passive boosts for newbros in L1/L2 combat missions doesn't really make sense. L3/L4 don't really even need boosts, though they can be nice (especially MWD/AB and web-range skirmish boosts, if not the tanking and info ones).

I've been mining out L4 mission ore after the change just as well as before the change, except for the orca or porpoise having to be on grid (but since I use it for ferrying ore/ice as well, it's handy to have there).

Grim Pac Rian wrote:
Skill extractors or injectors are not a viable option. At 500k sp requirement to even use the extractor. NOT TO MENTION you have to have over 5.5 million sp to activate the thing. The cost versus versatility way undersided


Anyone with enough SP sunk into leadership/wing command/fleet command (the formerly-passive squad command/wing command/fleet command boosting skills that now increase command burst range on grid) is going to be well over 5.5 mil SP.

Who trains Wing Command 5 before getting to 5.5 mil total SP? O_o And leadership 1+2+3+4+5 and wing command 1+2+3+4 is no big deal. it's really the wc 5 and fc 4+5 that are painful.

Full disclosure: bought a booster toon in 2015 with FC 3 and Mining Director 4 but otherwise max L5 on all leadership skills besides those... now at FC 4 and Mining Director 4... saving the painful 2+ months it'll take to get to 5 on both of those for a charisma/willpower remap at some future point.

Drago Shouna wrote:
Grim Pac Rian wrote:
The orca was never a free lunch. It's just another annotation on the list of expenses in order to mine. The availability of boost usually someone is charging fo the boost and if they aren't it's a tip the driver mentality. Most the time the orca pilot ends up eat up the very bonuses you are getting.


Rubbish..

I've been mining in all areas of space for just about 5 years..

Not once in all that time have I ever been asked for isk or ore or anything to receive any boosts, nor have I heard of anyone being charged, nor have I ever charged for boosts regardless of which ship I'm using.

I don't believe a word you're saying.


Just because you were never tipping off-grid boosters back in the day (be it a combat boosting command ship or be it a mining boosting orca) doesn't mean others weren't. You were getting by on the kindness of strangers (or corpmates, alliancemates, NPSI fleetmates) who had invested time and money into being a booster.

Nowadays, when random people ice mining in high sec (for example) ask for an invite into a fleet with Orca or Porpoise boosts, I notice they usually either tip some/all of their first load of ice or they give the booster some boost ammo. Very considerate alternatives to raw ISK.
blackiice
Forging Industries
Silent Infinity
#33 - 2017-05-07 15:25:36 UTC
I boost in an Orca and or Porpoise and other than having a huge ore bay in the Orca it's slow and takes forever to get in to warp. I actually prefer the Porpoise in Null since the boosting is just barely under the Orca.

Example I have all boosting and ship skills to level 5. I have another toon in a hulk (T2 everything fit for ice mining) with the all level 5 skills as well, plus the ice harvesting implant.


With the Porpoise when I am boosting my cycle time on the hulk is 36.5 seconds. I bring out the Orca and boost again and the cycle time is 35.5 seconds. Other then having a hell of a lot more storage the Porpoise is boosting just as well. Compared to the ISK in ship/fitting it's a no brainer on what ship to use.

Orca to align and warp out is just over 30 seconds! The Porpoise is just under 6 seconds. My booster actually warps out faster than my hulk does.

When I was in HS, I use again, this toon for boosting in a command ship which has amazing tank, and decent DPS. I would multibox 3-5 accounts and do level 4 missions. I preferred the command ship and spider tanking domi's and assign all the drones to my booster to follow his DPS.

I have also done that in null anoms as well. I understand that you are saying about the passive old bonuses that is why I also trained leadership skills years ago but the on-grid boosting is actually much better. I was angry at first until I actually tried it and I do like it better.

If you need to boost in L1/L2 missions then they shouldn't be in there running them yet. I used to run level 4's solo with no boosts or help in my trusty old Apoc when I first started so boosting isn't a MUST have to do HS missions.

Figure out what you are doing now since you are not the entry in to big corps any more and just do what you enjoy to do in the game. Boost yourself on your 3 accounts and have fun.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#34 - 2017-05-09 07:30:27 UTC
blackiice wrote:


Orca to align and warp out is just over 30 seconds! The Porpoise is just under 6 seconds. My booster actually warps out faster than my hulk does.



If you pulse a 500MN MWD an Orca will get into warp in ~10 seconds.
Dimitrios Bekas
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2017-05-14 16:14:01 UTC
*Guy coming back into the Game - complaining about something totally useless that is BETTER now after the Changes and everybody loves it but he still keeps on and wants CCP to rollback to the old system, because "it was better"...and last but not least - Highsec Missions*

- made my day, thank you. :D

No serious now,...

just deal with it...and next time, make some "research" about the new system, the new ships, and the new stats and then start your forum post please. I wasted so much time of my life to read everything and try to understand where your problem is...

...and do i cry now ? YES :) ShockedShockedShocked

Thank God he had no Carriers with TriageModule fitted lying around somewhere :D *imagine*
Hibibu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2017-05-25 10:41:57 UTC
VKMceo, let me know where you are mining and I'll swing by with some answers.
Bjorn Tyrson
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#37 - 2017-05-25 14:38:10 UTC
Dimitrios Bekas wrote:
*Guy coming back into the Game - complaining about something totally useless that is BETTER now after the Changes and everybody loves it but he still keeps on and wants CCP to rollback to the old system, because "it was better"...and last but not least - Highsec Missions*

- made my day, thank you. :D

No serious now,...

just deal with it...and next time, make some "research" about the new system, the new ships, and the new stats and then start your forum post please. I wasted so much time of my life to read everything and try to understand where your problem is...

...and do i cry now ? YES :) ShockedShockedShocked

Thank God he had no Carriers with TriageModule fitted lying around somewhere :D *imagine*


and not just any HS missions, specifically lvl 1 and 2 missions that "don't allow battlecruisers"
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