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Just to put things in perspective.

Author
xplosiv
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-05-03 23:48:23 UTC
Every one who thinks EVE is being made too friendly for new players or for lack of a better term "Dumbed down" try to remember 13 years ago EVE had 5 ship classes, like 1/10th the modules. And about 1/8th the other stuff like dictors, gang bonuses, Alliances. Just to put it in perspective.

Earnest Emu
Dark Venture Corporation
#2 - 2017-05-03 23:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Earnest Emu
Easy is more money for CCP, which is what makes the world go round
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#3 - 2017-05-03 23:54:54 UTC
but back then there was hardly any documentation to go with it, these days everyone seems to have a guide for something. New players even get free ships from the career agents, I got an ibis and a you're on your own.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#4 - 2017-05-04 00:22:14 UTC
xplosiv wrote:
try to remember 13 years ago
I can only remember back 10 years as that's how long I've been around. But what I remember most about back then was the indifference with which CCP treated new players.

No tutorial. No hand holding. No suggestions as to what paths were open to you. Just, "You are now in space. Do something or GTFO".

Best way to start a new game ever, in my opinion. You want to know something? Ask in local. You want to shoot someone at random? Knock yourself out and learn - in no uncertain way - that Concord frowns on that. I could list pages of reasons why it was the smartest thing CCP could have done.

These days you have an in depth tutorial, things handed to you, all kinds of sites to peruse to do things with maximum efficiency, and so many more "quality of life" additions to the game. It's taken a lot of the fun out of being a new player, if I were to be honest.

Mr Epeen Cool
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#5 - 2017-05-04 00:32:04 UTC
It's a tricky balance. The people who have been here forever want more challenging and difficult content and mechanics. It's still extremely overwhelming for newer players, however, despite all of the NPE stuff they've done. Most of the older players I know recognize both of those statements as true. The truth is that it's a tough job on both fronts.

Most of the development effort seems to be on working on making EvE more complex. I think it would be worth considering making starter systems contain more kinds of special cased space to help newer players along and give the super risk adverse a place to build their lame little sand castles. For example, long but easy missions you can run with multiple acceleration gates / deadspace, making player ships invulnerable to one another, wider types of NPC encounters. I mean it would e carebear stupid and easy, and the rewards should be nothing... but some people seem to go for that. Maybe create a spectra of "civilian" class ships restricted to the starter systems that include BC, BS, even civilian caps. Sould solve some new player apprehension. Later when they are familiar enough with the game to join decent chat channels more established players can shame them out of staying there.

On the other side of the coin, I think CCP is already on the right track with their new sov structures, citadels, and player made jump gates. Conceptually, and from I've read, it might even coax me out of my empire ganking. It has the potential to make null very exciting and interesting again.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#6 - 2017-05-04 01:09:14 UTC
Without going into details I think the overall balance is pretty good atm.

Obviously in a game this size there will always be issues, but it could be (and was) worse.

Remove standings and insurance.

Pix Severus
Empty You
#7 - 2017-05-04 01:22:20 UTC
I think CCP should focus on making EVE easier to understand, not just easier in general.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Bjorn Tyrson
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2017-05-04 01:33:51 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
I think CCP should focus on making EVE easier to understand, not just easier in general.


I believe the current buzzwords going around about the NPE and eve in general, is a move towards "easy to learn, hard to master"
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#9 - 2017-05-04 02:37:08 UTC
Eve will never cater to everyone or else it will fail at everything. Some changes are meh others are good, like real life imo. I enjoyed that heres a ship go F yourself of figuring things out myself. I dislike the amount of guides now available and I hate giving up information to newbros and am always juggling how much I should spoon feed and how much I should let them figure it out for themselves while chatting to people in game.

What Id love to see with the NPE is the WiS groundschool stuff but that would take a while to actually create so we shall see if it happens. That new capsuleer creation trailer video got me hard though. Its exactly what Im talking about. Transferring the theme park cut scene, mostly a playable movie crowd, into hardened capsuleers bent on ruthless destruction of their enemies. But I enjoy where its going atm so Im content to wait and see a bit there.

I realize that people like me are a very small minority even in real life so I tend not to expect to much that I like to continue for long as most of it is unpopular at best.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-05-04 03:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
xplosiv wrote:
Every one who thinks EVE is being made too friendly for new players or for lack of a better term "Dumbed down" try to remember 13 years ago EVE had 5 ship classes, like 1/10th the modules. And about 1/8th the other stuff like dictors, gang bonuses, Alliances. Just to put it in perspective.


Funny thing perspective.

Yours isn't the only valid one. So you aren't putting anything in perspective as it's not out of perspective to begin with, just not the same perspective as yours.

Perspective is quite often, just another word for opinion.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Hipqo
Tyde8
#11 - 2017-05-04 04:53:10 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
xplosiv wrote:
Every one who thinks EVE is being made too friendly for new players or for lack of a better term "Dumbed down" try to remember 13 years ago EVE had 5 ship classes, like 1/10th the modules. And about 1/8th the other stuff like dictors, gang bonuses, Alliances. Just to put it in perspective.


Funny thing perspective.

Yours isn't the only valid one. So you aren't putting anything in perspective as it's not out of perspective to begin with, just not the same perspective as yours.

Perspective is quite often, just another word for opinion.


Opinion is what you think of the given situation, perspective is what you think of the given situation, based on what it was like before, so its not quite the same, but kinda close ;)

But putting something thats evolving in perspective, is always better then just stating an oppinion without thinking about the past.

A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#12 - 2017-05-04 04:59:38 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
but back then there was hardly any documentation to go with it, these days everyone seems to have a guide for something. New players even get free ships from the career agents, I got an ibis and a you're on your own.



Yep. A noob ship, a little tutorial on how to fly it and why you should not shoot the station, and after that a big fat f**k you and you were on your own.


Good times really.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#13 - 2017-05-04 05:01:55 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
xplosiv wrote:
try to remember 13 years ago
I can only remember back 10 years as that's how long I've been around. But what I remember most about back then was the indifference with which CCP treated new players.

No tutorial. No hand holding. No suggestions as to what paths were open to you. Just, "You are now in space. Do something or GTFO".

Best way to start a new game ever, in my opinion. You want to know something? Ask in local. You want to shoot someone at random? Knock yourself out and learn - in no uncertain way - that Concord frowns on that. I could list pages of reasons why it was the smartest thing CCP could have done.

These days you have an in depth tutorial, things handed to you, all kinds of sites to peruse to do things with maximum efficiency, and so many more "quality of life" additions to the game. It's taken a lot of the fun out of being a new player, if I were to be honest.

Mr Epeen Cool




But we haz achievements now.
for every little damned thing
shoot me

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2017-05-04 05:04:56 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
but back then there was hardly any documentation to go with it, these days everyone seems to have a guide for something. New players even get free ships from the career agents, I got an ibis and a you're on your own.



Yep. A noob ship, a little tutorial on how to fly it and why you should not shoot the station, and after that a big fat f**k you and you were on your own.


Good times really.


was it don't shoot the station? I think I might have shot the station, or at least saw a bunch of people do that Pirate

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#15 - 2017-05-04 06:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Back in the good old days...

...survivorship bias already was a thing. Roll

With a retention rate below 10%, you'd bet that whoever plays the game long enough to think about the "good old days" will be a fringe case.

1 million players start playing a game; 10 years later, all of 1,000 survivors agree that back then everything was better and "kids have it too easy now". Guess the developers and the other 999,000 players would disagree on a couple of things...
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#16 - 2017-05-04 07:13:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
To put things in perpective we could have had Star Citizen level of gameplay without Dust and Valkyrie and World of Darkness around. All the money people put in Star Citizen could have been made by CCP.

What would be if?
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2017-05-04 07:18:21 UTC
xplosiv wrote:
Every one who thinks EVE is being made too friendly for new players or for lack of a better term "Dumbed down" try to remember 13 years ago EVE had 5 ship classes, like 1/10th the modules. And about 1/8th the other stuff like dictors, gang bonuses, Alliances. Just to put it in perspective.




And none of the guides, websites, and explanations that we have today. I recall finding and article where a guy had tested the remote sensor damps in game, recorded the observations, and then using some fairly sophisticated non-linear methods figured out the formula CCP was using for electronic warfare modules.

Is it easier now? IDK, maybe not, but it is not clear it is harder either.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#18 - 2017-05-04 07:24:47 UTC
does SC even have game play yet? also who is to say if we would have wanted that or not. Also if VR takes off Valkyrie tech might just make it into eve, but that gets very speculative on a large number of things. Dust sounded interesting, but I think the ps3 was an awful platform choice, they teased project legion which was supposed to be a successor to dust on PC, but I don't think they ever said anything more on it. There seems to be pretty big demand for a loot shooter, look at destiny, the division, or warframe. If there were an eve shooter I probably would only be playing ccp games at this point. I guess the one good thing about WoD is it used a lot of joint tech with WiS, however that all got scrapped so that clearly didn't end up working out.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#19 - 2017-05-04 07:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
SC targets the levels that were first imagined by people at CCP. Well, if you take into account all their promises.

At the end, who knows how it would look, its like watching into pool of water and predicting past. Doesnt have sense really. 😅
Percy Cuscaden
Easy Company
#20 - 2017-05-04 10:44:05 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I got an ibis and a you're on your own.


6 months later you then found yourself in an Apocalypse with 8 mining lasers Twisted
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