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Wars

Author
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#81 - 2017-05-02 23:35:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
...I still do not understand why you are all getting so excited about a discussion in the forum which has no bearing on any change which is actually going to lead to implementation at this point.

I am not crying. I may saddened by the lack of quality discourse taking place about this issue, but no tears...

Anyone who spends a fair bit time on the forum sees the same threads over and over and over again, no matter which side of an issue it is discussing.

After the first few times of giving thoughtful, well intended responses that just get shot down by other people, why bother anymore?

If an OP can't search the forum first, see an existing thread and add to it, or ask for it to be opened to add to it, why should anyone, already fatigued by the same stuff yet again, bother to respond in the way the OP hopes? It's all just going to be shot down anyway.

It's the way of the forum. Lots of us like to be here regularly, but it's rare that a thread comes along that hasn't already been argued to death umpteen times.

The umpteenth + 1 time isn't going to be any different.

Edit:
After reading back through a few pages, yeah there are plenty of tears.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2017-05-02 23:48:03 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:


Becuase this is a game about blowing up spaceships and you quite literally come to the forums and whine how you refuse to play it and would rather have it changed because you don't like it.

It seams you have no problem with the sandbox as long as it suits you and as long as you can get ISK from the market where the very demand you profit from is fueled by conflict. But if you become target of that conflict you think you should be able to completely isolate yourself and your friends, because "it's not what you want" while still being able to profit.


I can flip that one right back at you, right now, code loses 1% to every 99% they destroy. Any attempt to address that issue in terms of risk vs. reward is met by derision by your good selves. Any attempt to discuss that or address that issue is met by the same insults and belittling I am seeing.


No, the problem is you do not understand how risk works in the game. Risk is a function of player action. That is, any risk you face is due to your actions. If you do something foolish or imprudent your risk goes up. That you obtain the bad state associated with that risk is due to other players taking advantage of your imprudence. The game was designed this way on purpose.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#83 - 2017-05-03 00:56:27 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Percy Cuscaden wrote:


Good day to you sir.


Jenn is a Lady


Jen is not a lady lol. It's just a picture.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#84 - 2017-05-03 01:11:34 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:


Well keep on drinking the vitriol. I´ll put you down as a not interested in any changes to the war dec mechanic. Thanks for your delightful and insightful views on this topic.


You can "put down" anything you like, but it doesn't change the fact of what you are doing here. I honestly don't give a flip about what CCP does with war decs or anything to do with that massive cesspit called high sec. I simply find it annoying that grown people have such a hard time with simple things. I haven't failed to notice how the majority of people who whine and can't do anything for themselves also call high security space home in this game.

Quote:

If people are still going on about after 14 years maybesomething should be done to improve the system. Or not. But if people have carried on doing that for 14 years, then you really should prepare yourself for the fact that they will keep on doing it for the lifetime of the game. And since this issue appears to trigger you, you might be best recommended to avoid the issue altogether and engage in something productive beyond casting aspersions and throwing insults at other players who have done nothing to you.

Good day to you sir.


People have been complain about a lot for the last 14 years while also proclaiming that EVE is dying (and the only way to save it is of course to change the game in a way that oddly and suspiciously enough aligns with their specific complaints about the game). People being to weak and mentally soft to figure out their problems isn't a CCP issue, it's a personal one.

Which brings me to the point of why I highlighted your words above. CCP DID do something about war decs, several times actually. You want to know the result?

The result is the current status quo ie its the same as it always was (making CCPs efforts to change war decs in the pass turn out to be wasted time, money and DEV work). You want to know why that is? It's because of the Constant, the common denominator that ALWAYS thwarts changes CCP or any other group of developers make.

Humans.

No matter what you do, humans are going to find a way to do what they want. No in game mechanic change is going to stop people from finding a way to screw with hapeless folk like you Percy. Because no mechanic change is going to make you realize that the problem isn't the game, it's you (or more specifically, it's the flaws in the way you think about things that is n open invitation to the kinds of people who war dec to come in and make you upset).

So while you go on and on about the mechanics, those of us who know what's really going on will keep telling you that you are wrong, you have the tools to win out against these people, folks do it all the time which is why you will notice that sometimes war deccers are frustrated by lack of targets. Those people who frustrate them have the proper mentality to thumb their noses at the deccers and keep playing their game they want....

....And all without typing one word on this forum or any other.
Kaeden 3142
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2017-05-03 03:46:50 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
...I still do not understand why you are all getting so excited about a discussion in the forum which has no bearing on any change which is actually going to lead to implementation at this point.

I am not crying. I may saddened by the lack of quality discourse taking place about this issue, but no tears...

Anyone who spends a fair bit time on the forum sees the same threads over and over and over again, no matter which side of an issue it is discussing.

After the first few times of giving thoughtful, well intended responses that just get shot down by other people, why bother anymore?

If an OP can't search the forum first, see an existing thread and add to it, or ask for it to be opened to add to it, why should anyone, already fatigued by the same stuff yet again, bother to respond in the way the OP hopes? It's all just going to be shot down anyway.

It's the way of the forum. Lots of us like to be here regularly, but it's rare that a thread comes along that hasn't already been argued to death umpteen times.

The umpteenth + 1 time isn't going to be any different.

Edit:
After reading back through a few pages, yeah there are plenty of tears.


Forums are about opinions written right or wrong by someone else's opinion. The threads usually are closed before you could add to them.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#86 - 2017-05-03 06:44:26 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Tough words from someone who is even afraid to join a corp.

Heh, your constant vile blusterous posturing indicates you're just compensating for lack of RL-Peen.


DMC

I especially like how you always rush in your alts to like your own posts if you feel threatened. Did it hurt so much to hear the truth? Big smile
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#87 - 2017-05-03 06:58:06 UTC
Kaeden 3142 wrote:
Forums are about opinions written right or wrong by someone else's opinion. The threads usually are closed before you could add to them.

A couple of years ago I would agree with you on the closing of threads. Not so much anymore.

This thread, which would have been closed half way down page 1 a couple of years ago is well into Page 5 now. It's the same for many threads now.

The reputation of moderation here was well earned, but the practice hasn't been anywhere near as harsh for a long time.

As to opinions, I agree, which is why complaining about how others post is a lot of the time regarded as crying.
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2017-05-03 08:11:58 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:


I can flip that one right back at you, right now, code loses 1% to every 99% they destroy. Any attempt to address that issue in terms of risk vs. reward is met by derision by your good selves. Any attempt to discuss that or address that issue is met by the same insults and belittling I am seeing.



They rarely bother destroying things that aren't semi afk, badly tanked and overloaded. All of which are the real contributors to the ratio.

If you go even further, you have to wonder why one freighter is carrying a random load of goods one way through the choke, and more or less the same load is going the other way in another one. ie people keep freighting things that don't change value when they do, which is pure risk with no reward.

When I use my freighter it very rarely goes through a choke, and if it does, it purely has a low value bulk load of the thing that _can't_ be got regionally for a reasonable price. It doesn't have expensive blueprints, piles of salvage or other things that easily fit into a cloak warper.

Quote:


Sorry, I will never agree that allowing a huge alliance to war dec a small 2 player corp is "fun". You can paint that anyway you want, but it simply is not. It just means I dock up for the week with that character.



Set the dec corp to -10, go run combat exploration for a week in a region you've never lived in before. You can do that with a weeks training in cruisers. Exploration naturally leads you to local chats with few people in them even in highsec (so the deccers stand out), and moving around perpetually invalidates locations from agents - and moving around through lowpop regions tells you when a neutral is tracking you too. A t1 cruiser is perfectly acceptable for highsec exploration, and honestly, you are that poor you can't afford to lose a 30m fitted cruiser ?

Quote:


"Please come back so that we can all die together against insurmountable odds in a completely unbalanced fight." - Sadly, I do not see that one working.



Except that you can wait around afk cloaked all day in the systems that the deccers use because they are also predictable, and after a while, YOU become annoying. You'll constrain actions against other decs that they are running simaltaneously, and you may spot an opportunity to engage. ie you can be background annoying the exact way the dec is background annoying to you.

Quote:


Yes, for an experienced PvP corp all the above is true. Neither I nor my friend are experienced PvPers. We do not pretend to be.



How does one get experience ?

Quote:


Anything which goes against your doctrine view of the game is classified as whining. I received that message loud and clear.


it is a massively multiplayer pvp game. You _have_ to acknowledge the existence of others in your sandbox. The whole value structure of the things you do in highsec, particularly the things you buy that you can't cause to drop yourself is set by the pvp nature of the game.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2017-05-03 08:18:47 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

I especially like how you always rush in your alts to like your own posts if you feel threatened. Did it hurt so much to hear the truth? Big smile

You couldn't be more wrong even if you tried. Unfortunately I don't have enough alts to match the numbers.

But hey, thanks for telling me how you meta-game the forums.



DMC
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#90 - 2017-05-03 08:48:04 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

I especially like how you always rush in your alts to like your own posts if you feel threatened. Did it hurt so much to hear the truth? Big smile

You couldn't be more wrong even if you tried. Unfortunately I don't have enough alts to match the numbers.

But hey, thanks for telling me how you meta-game the forums.

I just think it is quite pathetic to like your own posts because you think that reinforces your weak point. Don't bother to lie about it it's quite obvious. Not sure why you think this has something to do with meta-gaming.
Aedaxus
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2017-05-03 09:11:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ah, high sec war dec complaint thread # 4,612,491, right on time.

And If I dare suggest people try the other 84.5% of New Eden space that isn't high sec (while at the same time supposedly being SAFER THAN HIGH SEC according to just about everyone in high sec), well that's just wrong, ain't it...


Hi, I think you are new to EVE Online so I'll explain it to you :

1.0 -> 0.5 : High Sec, PVE Region, is controlled by one of the 4 Races (Gallente-Caldari/Amarr-Minmatar)
0.4 -> .01 : Low Sec, PVE/PVP hybrid region, here power is more and more transferred to the players. Also the region where bad/idiot players are driven if they loose security status but that mechanics has been avoided by alting and will be severely negated by the alpha accounts as soon as the slow people one day will come to understand the world of no holds barred ganking opportunities that arise from it.
0.0 -> -0.9 : Nullsec , PVP Region completely controlled by players.








DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2017-05-03 09:29:00 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

I especially like how you always rush in your alts to like your own posts if you feel threatened. Did it hurt so much to hear the truth? Big smile

You couldn't be more wrong even if you tried. Unfortunately I don't have enough alts to match the numbers.

But hey, thanks for telling me how you meta-game the forums.

I just think it is quite pathetic to like your own posts because you think that reinforces your weak point. Don't bother to lie about it it's quite obvious. Not sure why you think this has something to do with meta-gaming.

What's pathetic is you actually believe what you're saying.



DMC
Jasmine Deer
Perkone
Caldari State
#93 - 2017-05-03 09:31:04 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:

The forums are a valid forum for discussing the game.


Threads such as these draw in forum warriors like moths to a flame. They want a soapbox not a discussion.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#94 - 2017-05-03 09:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
Aedaxus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ah, high sec war dec complaint thread # 4,612,491, right on time.

And If I dare suggest people try the other 84.5% of New Eden space that isn't high sec (while at the same time supposedly being SAFER THAN HIGH SEC according to just about everyone in high sec), well that's just wrong, ain't it...


Hi, I think you are new to EVE Online so I'll explain it to you :

1.0 -> 0.5 : High Sec, PVE Region, is controlled by one of the 4 Races (Gallente-Caldari/Amarr-Minmatar)
0.4 -> .01 : Low Sec, PVE/PVP hybrid region, here power is more and more transferred to the players. Also the region where bad/idiot players are driven if they loose security status but that mechanics has been avoided by alting and will be severely negated by the alpha accounts as soon as the slow people one day will come to understand the world of no holds barred ganking opportunities that arise from it.
0.0 -> -0.9 : Nullsec , PVP Region completely controlled by players.

This is not WOW, EVE does not have PvE and PvP regions, it is a competitive multiplayer sandbox. The only difference in the regions are the game mechanics and the attack surface you have because of them for other players which is also known as the "risk" which is then used to balance resources and mission rewards in said regions.

0.0 -> -1.0 : Nullsec/Wspace: no NPC interference in player combat
04 -> 0.1: Lowsec: direct NPC interference from gate guns and stations. non-consensual combat leads to security status loss
1.0 -> 0.5 : Highsec: complecated PvP mechanics involving multiple different NPC instances to react based on non-consensual combat, security status or faction standing. Wardec mechanics to allow for conflict without NPC interaction between player coorporations and alliances.

You can also see very clearly from the above list why Higshec combat and especially the brave people who kill others in the face of CONCORD is considered elite PvP. I mean seriously, it's like PvP in those other places is on easy mode if you look at it this way.

So you had it completely backwards. Actually nullsec is the PvP beginner area and Highsec is where the elite PvP content is.
Salvos Rhoska
#95 - 2017-05-03 10:08:57 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Actually nullsec is the PvP beginner area and Highsec is where the elite PvP content is.


Hmmm...
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#96 - 2017-05-03 12:20:57 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Tough words from someone who is even afraid to join a corp.

Heh, your constant vile blusterous posturing indicates you're just compensating for lack of RL-Peen.


DMC

I especially like how you always rush in your alts to like your own posts if you feel threatened. Did it hurt so much to hear the truth? Big smile


OMG dude I wasn't going to say anything, but I noticed that too. How freaking pathetic is that?
Salvos Rhoska
#97 - 2017-05-03 12:26:31 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Tough words from someone who is even afraid to join a corp.

Heh, your constant vile blusterous posturing indicates you're just compensating for lack of RL-Peen.


DMC

I especially like how you always rush in your alts to like your own posts if you feel threatened. Did it hurt so much to hear the truth? Big smile


OMG dude I wasn't going to say anything, but I noticed that too. How freaking pathetic is that?


Pffft.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#98 - 2017-05-03 12:27:43 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Tough words from someone who is even afraid to join a corp.

Heh, your constant vile blusterous posturing indicates you're just compensating for lack of RL-Peen.


DMC

I especially like how you always rush in your alts to like your own posts if you feel threatened. Did it hurt so much to hear the truth? Big smile


OMG dude I wasn't going to say anything, but I noticed that too. How freaking pathetic is that?

Pretty pathetic for sure. But at least he is consistent, lol
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#99 - 2017-05-03 12:28:30 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Pffft.

Did you just lose all the air?
Salvos Rhoska
#100 - 2017-05-03 12:31:28 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Pffft.

Did you just lose all the air?

Yeah, I passed some gas.