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Wars

Author
Algathas
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#41 - 2017-05-02 06:03:48 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:

This game is about tradeoffs. Please stop complaining that you have to make choices.


I have been in my 13 year old corp which has RL friends who come back from time to time. This has not been a problem before. We had one spate of random war decs from the Marmite Collective and others in June last year. Now in one month I get two.

How many people have you come across that are in their corp after 13 years? I need to leave now because some alliance wants to randomly wardec me every time they feel bored and need new targets (all 2 of us)?

I see no fun in a mechanic which allows full alliances to war dec small corps.

http://imgur.com/a/KaVqC

This is the first time I have "whined" about this issue. This corp was created 13 years ago for friends to stay in touch whenever they came back to the game. Like you note, it is high time CCP gave us a non-competitive structure which facilitates us staying in touch with our friends without having to sit in a structure which leaves us open to being war decced against our will when some other group of players feels bored.

Apologies for being "petulant" after 13 years in my corp. I have been quite happy with my cake until now.









They do have such a structure - the chat channel. Make a channel, have all the friends join it and then be in an NPC corp. Problem solved no more wardecs forever.
Beast of Revelations
Multiverse Trading
#42 - 2017-05-02 06:07:44 UTC
So dumb. Such a lack of creative thinking (if such easy to figure out stuff could even be called that). I guess this is the ADHD thing with kids with 0 attention spans furiously typing into handheld devices and wanting everything handed to them.

I was flying my Nightmare through high-sec the other day. Got war dec'd. Promptly docked, dropped corp, undocked, and proceeded as normal. Right at the gate there were the war-deccers camped waiting on me. I smiled, waived, and continued on through the gate.

Was that SO HARD to figure out? Jeez Louis.
Josef Djugashvilis
#43 - 2017-05-02 06:40:35 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Join a corp who can handle wardecs. The weak must be eliminated


I take it you are going to leave CODE then.

How did the Alliance Tournament go for you guys a couple of years ago?

We won, why? Are you still upset about it?



https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=367694

Do keep up dearie...

This is not a signature.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#44 - 2017-05-02 07:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Join a corp who can handle wardecs. The weak must be eliminated


I take it you are going to leave CODE then.

How did the Alliance Tournament go for you guys a couple of years ago?

We won, why? Are you still upset about it?



https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=367694

Do keep up dearie...

Let me quote from a minerbumping post from back then:

http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/08/code-wows-at-alliance-tournament.html

Supreme Protector of Highsec, Father of the New Order, our Saviour the great James 315 wrote:

When all is said and done, no one will remember Alliance Tournament XII for whether one droneboat setup beat another droneboat setup. They won't care whether Pandemic Legion spent a bunch of money and won the tournament for a fourth time or a fifth time, or whatever. They won't remember whether RvB finished in 20th place or 10th place or 5th place. But they will always remember the CODEdot team. They have achieved immortality.

Anyway, thanks for confirming our victory Josef
Percy Cuscaden
Easy Company
#45 - 2017-05-02 07:10:12 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
So dumb. Such a lack of creative thinking (if such easy to figure out stuff could even be called that). I guess this is the ADHD thing with kids with 0 attention spans furiously typing into handheld devices and wanting everything handed to them.


Sure I can leave the corp, but I have been in it for 13 years and do not want to. I get you do not appreciate that and do not think anything of it. Fine.

But what is with all the insults? You know nothing about me or the OP and other posters and yourself continue to label us in all sorts of ways. You know *nothing* about either of us beyond that we are paying customers like yourselves, who enjoy the game, but feel there should be an improvement or alternative community tool allowing friends to stay together with out being war decced. Just becuase we are talking about does not mean *anything* is going to happen.

I get you see no issue with flip flopping out of your corp every time you get war decced. Awesome. Really happy for you. I do not like the mechanic. I am discussing it in this forum. Why all the insults?
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#46 - 2017-05-02 07:49:54 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
I get you see no issue with flip flopping out of your corp every time you get war decced. Awesome. Really happy for you. I do not like the mechanic. I am discussing it in this forum. Why all the insults?

Becuase this is a game about blowing up spaceships and you quite literally come to the forums and whine how you refuse to play it and would rather have it changed because you don't like it.

It seams you have no problem with the sandbox as long as it suits you and as long as you can get ISK from the market where the very demand you profit from is fueled by conflict. But if you become target of that conflict you think you should be able to completely isolate yourself and your friends, because "it's not what you want" while still being able to profit.

Well that is not how the game works. If you want to run a corporation you have to defend it. If you can't you don't deserve that corporation.

I can't understand why some people play a game which is quite obviously about shooting spaceships when they so vehemently are against such gameplay and rather than see the war as what it is, a potential for a whole lot of fun content and action, they rather come to the forum to whine about it.

Has it ever crossed your mind to even try to see this as an opportunity to get your friends back? Tell them that the corp is under siege and that they should come back and defend it if they are even remotely interested in keeping it. A war is something interesting and there are a ton of ways how you can have fun. That does not mean you have to win every fight or win at all. T1 setups are cheap and almost completely repay from insurance. There is literally nothing to lose. You probably mined for 13 years and have no idea what to do with all that ISK anyway, so why not have some fun with it?

There are a gazilion ways how to trick others into thinking they have the upper hand and trick them into a fight. And seriously if someone looks at your corp EVERY trap will look convincing.

Get some neutral scouts, learn where your enemy is and what he flies and trap him with a full counter. And if it does not work, the ships are cheap, you lost nothing, but gained a whole lot of insight into EVE PvP, had some fun and excitement while doing it and maybe even got some of your friends back into EVE.
Percy Cuscaden
Easy Company
#47 - 2017-05-02 08:26:03 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
Why all the insults?


Becuase this is a game about blowing up spaceships and you quite literally come to the forums and whine how you refuse to play it and would rather have it changed because you don't like it.

It seams you have no problem with the sandbox as long as it suits you and as long as you can get ISK from the market where the very demand you profit from is fueled by conflict. But if you become target of that conflict you think you should be able to completely isolate yourself and your friends, because "it's not what you want" while still being able to profit.


I can flip that one right back at you, right now, code loses 1% to every 99% they destroy. Any attempt to address that issue in terms of risk vs. reward is met by derision by your good selves. Any attempt to discuss that or address that issue is met by the same insults and belittling I am seeing.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Well that is not how the game works. If you want to run a corporation you have to defend it. If you can't you don't deserve that corporation.

I can't understand why some people play a game which is quite obviously about shooting spaceships when they so vehemently are against such gameplay and rather than see the war as what it is, a potential for a whole lot of fun content and action, they rather come to the forum to whine about it.


Sorry, I will never agree that allowing a huge alliance to war dec a small 2 player corp is "fun". You can paint that anyway you want, but it simply is not. It just means I dock up for the week with that character.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Has it ever crossed your mind to even try to see this as an opportunity to get your friends back? Tell them that the corp is under siege and that they should come back and defend it if they are even remotely interested in keeping it. A war is something interesting and there are a ton of ways how you can have fun. That does not mean you have to win every fight or win at all. T1 setups are cheap and almost completely repay from insurance. There is literally nothing to lose. You probably mined for 13 years and have no idea what to do with all that ISK anyway, so why not have some fun with it?


"Please come back so that we can all die together against insurmountable odds in a completely unbalanced fight." - Sadly, I do not see that one working.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:

There are a gazilion ways how to trick others into thinking they have the upper hand and trick them into a fight. And seriously if someone looks at your corp EVERY trap will look convincing.

Get some neutral scouts, learn where your enemy is and what he flies and trap him with a full counter. And if it does not work, the ships are cheap, you lost nothing, but gained a whole lot of insight into EVE PvP, had some fun and excitement while doing it and maybe even got some of your friends back into EVE.


Yes, for an experienced PvP corp all the above is true. Neither I nor my friend are experienced PvPers. We do not pretend to be.

Anything which goes against your doctrine view of the game is classified as whining. I received that message loud and clear.
Keno Skir
#48 - 2017-05-02 08:33:48 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
I can flip that one right back at you, right now, code loses 1% to every 99% they destroy. Any attempt to address that issue in terms of risk vs. reward is met by derision by your good selves. Any attempt to discuss that or address that issue is met by the same insults and belittling I am seeing.


You're being belittled because (as has been explained) you are suggesting the game is broken because you "don't want to" use the obvious mechanic that would save you.
Percy Cuscaden
Easy Company
#49 - 2017-05-02 09:33:21 UTC
There is a current posting on Reddit which has some interesting ideas:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/68mgyk/the_one_million_and_first_ccplease_wardecs_post/

Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#50 - 2017-05-02 13:12:13 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
You know nothing about me or the OP and other posters and yourself continue to label us in all sorts of ways. You know *nothing* about either of us beyond that we are paying customers like yourselves, who enjoy the game, but feel there should be an improvement or alternative community tool allowing friends to stay together with out being war decced. Just becuase we are talking about does not mean *anything* is going to happen.

I get you see no issue with flip flopping out of your corp every time you get war decced. Awesome. Really happy for you. I do not like the mechanic. I am discussing it in this forum. Why all the insults?


Wrong again. We know that you refuse to adapt to the game mechanics, and want the game to change to suit someone who casually logs in every once in a while over a 13 year period.

Quote:
There is a current posting on Reddit which has some interesting ideas:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/68mgyk/the_one_million_and_first_ccplease_wardecs_post/


I'm legitimately surprised by the amount of anti-wardec rhetoric getting upvoted in that thread. We are talking about the same subreddit community in which every single thread titled "new player looking for advice with X" has "join Dreddit / Horde / Karmafleet / Brave Newbies" as the top rated reply. Where did all these people that suddenly care about "small newbie corps growing organically in HS" come from? The vast majority of these threads need to have the top 2-5 comments minimized just to find the answer to OP's question because the community is too busy telling OP to join one of the large null entities and how once they do that they will find people that can help them.

Also, just for giggles to show how cherry picked that thread is for your argument, currently on the front page of reddit (top 25 posts):

15 threads related to combat (memes, videos, battle reports, propaganda, general PvP, wars, thunderdome)
8 threads on stuff outside the game client
1 thread on low sec LP
1 on HS war decs (the thread you linked)


reddit clearly is pro-war. They can use whatever words they want, but when well over half the posts are war or general PvP related, we've seen all we need to see.
Percy Cuscaden
Easy Company
#51 - 2017-05-02 13:48:22 UTC
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:


We know that you refuse to adapt to the game mechanics, and want the game to change to suit someone who casually logs in every once in a while over a 13 year period.

Also, just for giggles to show how cherry picked that thread is for your argument, currently on the front page of reddit (top 25 posts):

15 threads related to combat (memes, videos, battle reports, propaganda, general PvP, wars, thunderdome)
8 threads on stuff outside the game client
1 thread on low sec LP
1 on HS war decs (the thread you linked)


reddit clearly is pro-war. They can use whatever words they want, but when well over half the posts are war or general PvP related, we've seen all we need to see.


Refuse to adapt to game mechanics? There is no option to refuse to game mechanics in the game, you cannot opt out of a game mechanic. This is a discussion on a forum. Do I like the current implementation of the game mechanic? No. Am I refusing to adapt to it? No. There is no option but to submit to the game mechanic. What is so wrong with being a casual player and conveying my criticism of a game mechanic?

I did not cherry pick anything, it is a thread discussing the war dec system like this one is. Wanting to change the war dec system does not automatically make one pro-war or anti-war. It just makes us players who are interested in discussing a game system. If you want to label an entire Reddit forum with your perception of it, knock your socks off. That does not make the points raised in that thread anymore or less valid than yours, my own or anyone other single person discussing this issue.

The majority outspoken view will prevail as it nearly always does. I really do not think your game style choice is under threat from me or anyone else discussing this issue. This is just a discussion. There is no anti-war conspiracy going on, either here or on Reddit.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2017-05-02 13:58:50 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:


Right, so leave the corp. Being in a PLAYER CORP means you have DELIBERATELY opened yourself up to wardecs. It's assumed that if you didn't want to be open to wardecs you wouldn't have chosen to be in a player corp where you trade the lower tax for the chance of war.

I assume you want 0 tax, as well as no war.. and everything else risk free too.

You said you deal with gankers, why are you choosing to not deal with wardecs?

I re-iterate : Being in a PLAYER CORP is a trade off like everything in EvE. You get lower taxes and your own flag, in return for defending yourself from other player corps.


I did not even know about the tax issue until today. Not fussed about the tax issue at all.

Gankers face consequences. A big alliance faces no consequences when they war dec a small corp. There is no risk for them.

Of course I can leave the corp, but being OCD I hate the idea of leaving my corp which I have been in for 13 years. I totally acknowledge this means nothing to most of you who are probably in out of corps like there is no tomorrow. But I am not like that! More fool me.

Where did I say anything about "everything else risk free too"? I never said that. The only risk free party in this complaint is the large alliance which has war decced a corp which has two active players Twisted

13 years in the game:
- does not know what to do when wardecced
- does not know about corp and NPC taxes
- ...

Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2017-05-02 14:02:28 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Let me quote from a minerbumping post from back then:

http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/08/code-wows-at-alliance-tournament.html

Supreme Protector of Highsec, Father of the New Order, our Saviour the great James 315 wrote:

When all is said and done, no one will remember Alliance Tournament XII for whether one droneboat setup beat another droneboat setup. They won't care whether Pandemic Legion spent a bunch of money and won the tournament for a fourth time or a fifth time, or whatever. They won't remember whether RvB finished in 20th place or 10th place or 5th place. But they will always remember the CODEdot team. They have achieved immortality.

Anyway, thanks for confirming our victory Josef

Well... some people can find fame in being the worst.... Lol

But yeah.... Some people present themself as idiots on Internetz to get 'minutes of fame' What?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Carnivorous Swarm
Doomheim
#54 - 2017-05-02 14:59:32 UTC
Percy:

Talking about changing war mechanics is fine, but is not going to solve your problem today. Personally I think social corps with NPC-corp-like restrictions and taxes are a fair idea.

The truth is that it is your choice not to take any of these suggestions presented in this thread. None of them are undoable. They work. Some of the suggestions merely tweak your playstyle, keeping most of it intact. And, it is enjoyable to deny your enemies their cake.

Let me also suggest improving your fits and fitting all the slots on your ships (see your mining ships). Stop losing T2 ships to NPCs or at the very least disallow killmails from your account so no one sees them. Stop readily dying to suicide ganks like on April 16 when it happened twice on the same day in the same system.

Your corporation looks like it makes no attempt to learn the game or how to interact with players who have conflicting ambitions. Your corporation looks like a great target, honestly.

Do you, as the CEO, have what it takes to lead your members to safety and prosperity in the ever changing universe? Or will you dock up for weeks at a time and lament your freedom?
Percy Cuscaden
Easy Company
#55 - 2017-05-02 15:59:30 UTC
Carnivorous Swarm wrote:
Percy:

Talking about changing war mechanics is fine, but is not going to solve your problem today. Personally I think social corps with NPC-corp-like restrictions and taxes are a fair idea.


Me too. I think the game must lose a lot of casual players who cannot get over the brutal play style, I think that is a lost opportunity. What others see as the culling of the weak, I see as a lost opportunity for further expanding the playerbase and encouraging more people into low sec/null. The game is pretty healthy right now, it is certainly not the case that it is dying, but I think it could do better. It has so much to offer.

Carnivorous Swarm wrote:

The truth is that it is your choice not to take any of these suggestions presented in this thread. None of them are undoable. They work. Some of the suggestions merely tweak your playstyle, keeping most of it intact. And, it is enjoyable to deny your enemies their cake.


Trustory. Currently I choose not to leave my Corp, that may change in the future, but wrong or right I see it as my little home in the game.

Carnivorous Swarm wrote:


Let me also suggest improving your fits and fitting all the slots on your ships (see your mining ships). Stop losing T2 ships to NPCs or at the very least disallow killmails from your account so no one sees them. Stop readily dying to suicide ganks like on April 16 when it happened twice on the same day in the same system.



Yeah the loss of Ishtars is careless, but I love that little ship. Battleships are boring and slow in comparison to the Ishtar, but I have plenty of room for improvement.

I believe in being open. A terrible choice in a game like Eve Online, but I have survived from 2003 till now doing so. That may change, but not today!

The suicide ganks on the 16th, well they were my own stupid fault. I was purposefully in relatively cheap ass ships becuase I was war decced by RIOT. They smacked us down in Brapelille the day before so I moved down to Osmon. I decided for cheap and cheerful. The ganker did good work, o7 to the Whyte clan on that one. Risk and reward for both players there.

I cannot pretend to like ganking, but I have no issue (so far) with how miners are currently ganked in hi sec. It is good for the game and keeps players on their toes. The isk must flow! Even with the loss of the two mining ships I managed to pull in 400m in isk that week whilst war decced (which of course was then promptly lost with that Ishtarstravaganza the next week :) )

Carnivorous Swarm wrote:

Your corporation looks like it makes no attempt to learn the game or how to interact with players who have conflicting ambitions. Your corporation looks like a great target, honestly.


Fine, I will have to live with that. I would have thought there were better targets than a two player active corp, but with the current mechanics we make easy fodder. I get that.

Carnivorous Swarm wrote:

Do you, as the CEO, have what it takes to lead your members to safety and prosperity in the ever changing universe? Or will you dock up for weeks at a time and lament your freedom?


Docked up. Selling off the wares and having fun with an Alpha elsewhere.
Lothros Andastar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2017-05-02 16:03:01 UTC
Percy Cuscaden wrote:

Me too. I think the game must lose a lot of casual players who cannot get over the brutal play style, I think that is a lost opportunity. What others see as the culling of the weak, I see as a lost opportunity for further expanding the playerbase and encouraging more people into low sec/null. The game is pretty healthy right now, it is certainly not the case that it is dying, but I think it could do better. It has so much to offer.

Sorry bub, but CCP stats prove you wrong on that.
Percy Cuscaden
Easy Company
#57 - 2017-05-02 16:14:41 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:

Sorry bub, but CCP stats prove you wrong on that.


Which bit?

i. I think the game must lose a lot of casual players who cannot get over the brutal play style
ii. The game is pretty healthy right now
iii. a) it is certainly not the case that it is dying or b) but I think it could do better
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#58 - 2017-05-02 16:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
Percy Cuscaden wrote:
I can flip that one right back at you, right now, code loses 1% to every 99% they destroy. Any attempt to address that issue in terms of risk vs. reward is met by derision by your good selves. Any attempt to discuss that or address that issue is met by the same insults and belittling I am seeing.

Do you even know what risk/reward means? This is a metric to balance loot drop tables for NPC and resources and not to balance player interaction.

The only reason why we manage to destroy so much is that some players in Highsec are completely complacent and let their guard down.

Percy Cuscaden wrote:
Sorry, I will never agree that allowing a huge alliance to war dec a small 2 player corp is "fun". You can paint that anyway you want, but it simply is not. It just means I dock up for the week with that character.

sure.., you would cry even if it was a one man corp who wardeced you. Don't try to make you look like you are the poor underdog here. What you want is isolation from the sandbox when it suits you.

Percy Cuscaden wrote:
"Please come back so that we can all die together against insurmountable odds in a completely unbalanced fight." - Sadly, I do not see that one working.

It is only unbalanced because you are not willing to prepare. I fight wars against whole alliances alone and have no issue because I prepare and care about how the game works.

Do you think "Come back and mine some ore with us for no reason or purpose" will bring them back? EVE is so much more fun if you have a real goal and something to fight for.

Percy Cuscaden wrote:

Yes, for an experienced PvP corp all the above is true. Neither I nor my friend are experienced PvPers. We do not pretend to be.

Anything which goes against your doctrine view of the game is classified as whining. I received that message loud and clear.

If people whine on the forums that is classified as whining yes. The true enemy you have is only yourself and your defeatist attitude and not the wardecers you face.

If you came to the forums to get advice how to defend, people would actually flock to the thread, support and teach you how to trick those guys into a trap. No one was born an EVE PvP expert, we all learned it by actually playing the game. Instead you chose to whine for a change of game mechanics in your favour.
Josef Djugashvilis
#59 - 2017-05-02 16:34:51 UTC
Dear Ima Wreckyou, if you consider AT XII to be a 'victory' you must relate to the truth the same way as one D. J. Trump .

Are you a relative of his?

I think we should be told :)

This is not a signature.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#60 - 2017-05-02 16:37:37 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Ima Wreckyou, if you consider AT XII to be a 'victory' you must relate to the truth the same way as one D. J. Trump .

Are you a relative of his?

I think we should be told :)

I think we should build a wall around Highsec to keep the illegal miners out of our territory.

Check my bio, I even have a gold medal for winning said tournament.