Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That would be a little extreme, however the OP achieves the same player goals without destroying the current players lifestyle, It simply offers an alternative, a fresh beginning, an option for the brave and courageous, but when the Gate eventually opens, their wealth will count for nothing, and those coddled by their isk farms, will find lean hardened players coming through to new eden, interested in seeing them burn.

It should be an interesting conflict, without making anyone feel hard done by, well the self entitled will always feel hard done by.

CCP is clearly exploring pulling isk out with faction capitals, shiny citadels and the likely "interesting changes" of plex price incoming.

That will teach players the meaning of "the value of your investments may go down as well as up, past performance is no guarantee of future performance" CCP have always said they are not responsible for players investment choices.

"But look, the graph always points up!" Is not a good investment strategy.

If or more likely when, the fountain of isk from nullsec ratting is turned down a touch, by for example, replacing every battleship rat with webbing frigates, then we will NEED the newspace ™ to get out of earshot of all the moaning and whining that will follow.

Interesting ideas, I am not sure if these are in improvement on the simplicity of the OP but there certainly will need to be a ship and structure progression of things found and built in the new space, I was thinking more of a "pirate type" line of NPC ships, as there is unlikely to be time to develop independent T2/3 and fully developed citadels in the time available before the gate is built and opened.

But interesting thoughts none the less, there are plenty of opportunities for CCP to add options as the space develops, to steer it to the eventual goal, rather than everything from Day one, It will take quite a while to mine enough for the first battleship in the new space, let alone citadels.

Think we should not take each other's ideas too literally
Better to combining each other's good points than just pointing out the mistakes
If there are things that are not currently good, give us a possible solution to the problem

Ok I have calmed down a little, I am sure there is a good reason for you.

In your pod, you mark the salvage that is stated as in the system and needs to be found for the shipyard to collect, to build your ship.

Once you have had your ship built, then you fly around the rest of the universe.

Which is why I said and it is in your quote "You mark the salvage to be collected by the shipyard" what did you think the shipyard was going to do with the salvage it has to build the ship, make Pizza?

I am really really sorry if you are genuinely having difficulties understanding, I REALLY want to give a heavily sarcastic reply, but I am restraining myself with difficulty afraid that might be cruel and inappropriate.

You are unfortunately right, there are a number of perceptions by Alphas that come up time and time again which all basically come down to "can I be really useful to myself and others?, and can I ever catch up?" We are unable to give truly honest answers without disappointment. They have a use, but In the current New eden, it is not really much of one, nice though the chance is.

One of the Ideas behind this proposal was that ALL players started from scratch in this Newspace ™ with the same knowledge.

The same knowledge of the skills for the new ships and weapons, and the same Newspace ™ wealth, with existing wealth and ships locked in new Eden, unable to be brought in. Then new players would feel they have the same chance of success as older players, whether Alpha or Omega. And would encourage alpha players to be involved and excited, wanting to become Omega because they can see it made a real difference to them from the first day without feeling that without Omega they were going to fail . With goals that do not stop at being tackle or bait.

The Shipyard could also have a library of basic Empire skills that would be wanted even in the Newspace ™ , such as the engineering skills, the cost of these basic skills are minimal anyway, and in Newspace ™ cannot affect the New eden player market. (I add this in case new players make a beeline for the first Pod entrance to Newspace ™ without spending any time doing career missions etc.)

Naturally the specific Newspace ™ skills would need to be trainable in part level by Alphas to enable this. (I shouldn't have to spell this out but it is clear some find every step necessary) And the existing Empire space racial restrictions would not make them feel that they were missing out in the new space.

Edit:- the Plex vault is encoded in one's implants, synchronised with ones new clone on death, so real world purchases of Plex are available for skins, upgrades, etc etc. Everywhere. Even though the exchange rates for Plex on the market (when it eventually opens and the goods available on it expand.) may be significantly different on the two markets before the gates are built, reflecting the wealth production of the local economy. Alternatively ISK may be a new Eden currency, and Newspace may have something like Talocan credits, both are potentially valid. A conversion rate based on values of each economy would occur on gate opening to ensure a balanced changeover. Again I clarify that the available features only need to be implemented by the developers as the players expand into needing it, not everything needs to be instantly in place.

Newspace ™ accessed by pod if it happens, as described in the OP would justify a Massive marketing campaign to bring in newplayers, both Alpha and Omega, even if only the stage to cruisers was ready, and development proceeding in small stages matching the eventual creation of battlecruisers and beyond, as it will take a while to even mine enough resources and explore out the blueprints to build the first battleship! Or possibly, we limit physical ship size to enable the progression to a range of highly advanced and powerful cruisers instead, to let the ships feel more mobile and alive! Making the eventual gate opening, a less overwhelming event by the new gates having mass limits.

It will really feel like an EVE reboot, with the added benefit of all the learning and development that has been so well done by CCP in the intervening years. It will also enable them to drop overcomplicated and unbalanced mechanisms and mechanics and historic baggage in Newspace ™ Where that would be hard in the current game.
A fresh start for the Developers too.

I strongly believe CCP are far better taking this progressive path rather than waiting until a fully developed "great" new universe was created, and opening it then, resulting in a land rush dominated by the rich and veteran in the main.

I propose "EVE Pioneer " as a release name for exactly that reason. "EVE Colonisation " can come once the space has been shaped by the Pioneers, and the Gate opened, many of who will have Started as new players, and retained, because it was great fun for them and they had something worthwhile that they could aspire to and achieve.

Now, even this could not be achieved tomorrow, but It will make the opportunities available far quicker, and with far lesser developer commitments from the beginning, than turning the entire company around in one go into Producing "Great" Newspace ™ to be opened as a complete finalised new universe.
I cannot actually imagine that is realistically even possible, and the complaints of some of the player base that they were being ignored might become overwhelming, or at least highly annoying and disruptive.

But CCP are incredibly talented, If anyone can do it they can, but I believe, this proposal is a far less risky and committed route, totally true to EVE and its dreams, that can be flexible as to available resources, and actually result in a better final product, and produce benefits and exciting, engaging opportunities to new and old players from day one.

Interesting.
That could go somewhere, there should still be some of the existing (reskinned) and especially new PVE available, I would expect Newspace ™ to be occupied, but not by us or the empires, or our New Eden Pirates.

The new NPCs are very important, as they should be designed to be a roaming force as well as being found in "Dungeons", attracted to repetitive agressive behaviour, this is intended to make things like lazy gatecamps impractical, as they will be attracted to them like sharks to blood in the water. This has the secondary effect, of making jump drives unnecessary, as most if not all travel will be system to system in Newspace ™. It will encourage a more mobile lifestyle. Whether jump drives are even possible in Newspace will depend on power projection and size. I would argue, that if we did not already have them, whether we would create them, the NPC behaviour is a different solution to the same issues that led to their creation.

We really do not need Nullsec duplicated, with all Its problems and issues, it should have a very different feel, based on a few simple changes, and discarding assumptions based on "we always do it that way!"

Your focus and ideas on new technologies, could definately lead to something new.

There needs to be something "different" for those in New Eden to be exposed to, once the gates eventually are built between the spaces. Something that cannot be countered by "bring a bigger blob". Possibly we can learn to use and train the PVE rats behaviour, to swarm static positions where agression takes place, and bring them out with usas a tactic? For them to drift back home after their job is done.

It needs to be different but balanced, one would like to give the complacent and lazy a wake up call, not a introduce them to an inevitable genocide, however, when the new space pioneers come back! But it certainly would be a good thing to "wake up" the bored and those who have lost direction, and have settled on farming and easy killboard padding, and just hanging onto playing the game, because it has become a habit.

And it might bring some of the "bittervets" back from reddit and get them to log in again! "Eve is fun again! Who could have guessed!"

Imagination is a wonderful tool, sometimes it can result in things no one else had thought of before, if one starts with a basic premise like the OP, there is a near infinite opportunity for imaginative new ideas, freed from the baggage of the past, whilst still being very EVE.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I propose a mechanism and a mechanic, CCP will decide whether Talocans, Drifters, or a long lost colony from the first empire are the ones they want to roll with.

I Already mentioned that Newspace will already be occupied by an NPC faction Just not one we are familar with. Currency could be ISK, ot Talocan Credits or Cowrie shells that is the medium of exchange, the name is not important, but a conversion rate would need to be established, either organically or deliberately based on the values of the differing spaces, when the Newspace ™ is Joined to New Eden. Prior to that, With NOTHING available from new Eden. Currency or goods. The market will Grow according to local needs, not because someone brought in a trillion isk from new eden and cornered the market.

You are right it will take years to replicate New Eden from scratch, but that is neither necessary or desireable, newspace ™ will be a simpler space INITIALLY, potentially with battleships or battleship class advanced cruisers as the peak of development, with local structures and equipment being built entirely from local materials, that may be significantly different from New Eden. (To simplify development many items may be identical to New Eden, just a different name and ID number)

This enables CCP to advance or delay growth according to their development timetables, and when they wish to open newspace ™ to the rest of new Eden.

Do not think of it as a copy of New Eden, or even wormholes, It will have an entirely different character, but still TOTALLY Eve.

One will NOT pick Newspace ™ because it offers better isk/hr or similar reasons, People will pick Newspace ™ for the same reasons they started playing EVE after the Beta, because it is fun to build a universe, even though the technology and development is so much better done and so advanced, many believe that those days were actually the golden age of Eve.

Now we can have that back with all the advances, free of the baggage of 10+ years and with CCP taking advantage of the lessons learned. Without having to change ANYTHING in New eden and isolating those who have got used to that.

If CCP choose, CCP can be free of the issues of sovereignty and force projection, super capitals and crimewatch, and all the decisions that made perfect sense at the time, but now possibly regret, and are stuck with trying to balance, that seems to please no one, no matter how hard they try. They can simply eliminate them from new space, they have a blank page to start with.
Each and every item in Newspace ™ will be there because it is good, not just there to balance an archaic mechanic, old decisions made in the distant past by people who have long gone.

Newspace is the perfect opportunity to do EVE the way they truly believe it should be, free of the baggage of the past, with NO risk of destabilising their customer base.

New Eden is still there. Newspace ™ will be Eve 1.0, done right.

Oh dear, I think this was for me as the OP, It looks like I have to go back to basics, and point out the various answers to your points that are already there.

I suggest you start at the discussion of NPC rats having an attraction mechanic, and how they would exterminate the lazy campers who would try to farm the pods, before the second pod ever arrived. And how that attraction mechanic means oblivion to blobs, rewarding smart tactical play.

And I repeat, to save you the effort of looking, that the space IS occupied, just not yet by us.

I do not expect you to be positive, Newspace will NOT be attractive to all, but I would politely request you read before you jump to conclusions. Whilst my proposal is simple in many ways, it will create a good level of complexity based on those simple mechanics, not require dozens or hundreds of contradictory rules.
(It would be presumptuous of ANY player to tell them how they should apply the tools they already have, let alone those they have in development. So I haven't.)

I do NOT Expect for a moment that CCP will take this proposal and go " that's Genius! Do exactly that!" I hope they will see it as a Viable framework, that they can add their expertise and experience and knowledge to, to achieve a Goal, that is achievable, resource light, and Good for Everyone in a significantly reduced timescale.

CCP have learned immense amounts from the Time we occupied new Eden, they have man-decades of shared experience. And in the old Joke, "If you want to get there I wouldn't start from here".


They do not have to, Newspace can be Eve done right. And THEY know what they would choose not to repeat.

And If YOU can persuade thousands of Null players, to give up the Easy isk, and staged Wars, their comfy life, to live the life of a Pioneer, when nothing they gain is of any value in New eden, and they cannot even own space, and primitive mass Ganking attempts like "burn Jita" resulting in the biggest and most embarrassing loss ever in EVE, then you are the Mittani, not the real one but the Imaginary all powerful God whose servants do his bidding without question with absolutely no personal choice, and infinite patience. how's that working out?

Newspace is Coming.

Will it be all in a rush for the next three years, requiring ALL DEVELOPER resources to make it happen? in the meantime eating all those resources, out of your sight, pushing for that golden day to make it "great"? Or a slow staged use of developer resources that allows a steady progression, as they are available? Using tools that already exist, or are on Sisi now.

I suggest the latter is better both for those in new Eden and for those who lust for, and dream of Newspace ™ alike.

If you think that just just throwing down a hard barrier beyond which no wealth can pass between the two universes will keep people from trading between the two, you're wrong. It's a simple "I have something you want in this universe, you have something I want in that one, let's trade."

This isn't theory to me, it's history from a sharded EVE-like game.

Smuggler's Route stargates seem to already dive into ruthless, unexplored parts of New Eden. It would be a logical addition to the new space if one was looking to funnel existing assets through. The more fluidity in this game in terms of old to new, the less likely people will try to cling to one mode of play over the other, i.e., more activity across the board.