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The Federal Frontier: A new Federation-focused Capsuleer news site

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Arrendis
TK Corp
#41 - 2017-04-23 14:57:33 UTC
Also: in "Kyonoke Inquest Overshadowed by Defamation":

One of the individuals who is quoted, and has their actions described, is "Counter-intelligence operative Tarek Raimo". The author. This is disengenuous and cheap, as it attempts to distance Raimo-as-authort from Raimo-as-subject. Writers: don't do this. Editors: don't let them. Identify that that's you, and present that bit as direct observation. Own your perspective, or you'll find yourself accused of deception and fraud, and your credibility (and that of the entire site that publishes your work) tarnished.

It's likely not an intentional deception in this case. It almost never is. It's just a writer trying to 'be objective'.

Nobody is objective. Never. No reporter is objective. No editorializer is objective. Ever. It's not possible: you will always have your subjective viewpoint. Own it. Acknowledge it. Let your reader know 'this is what I saw directly, it is influenced by my experience' rather than 'this was events as recorded and/or reconstructed from multiple accounts. Even when you're giving quotes. Especially when you're giving quotes.

And why the hell are you quoting yourself? You're the writer. Just say it. Quoting yourself reads like you're trying to give yourself more of an air of authority than your reader would otherwise give you. Tell the reader you're an experienced COINTEL operative and go from there.

But again: this is something lots of writers do. They don't mean to be creating false impressions, they're just not necessarily experienced COINTEL operatives and experienced reporters. That's why there are editors. And if there aren't editors there (and it looks a lot like there aren't) then get some. Because you need it.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#42 - 2017-04-23 14:58:33 UTC
Quote:
I'll contact you regarding your assistance in our editing program...


Not likely to have the time, I'm afraid.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#43 - 2017-04-23 15:31:14 UTC
Do you have any idea how much time that woman needs to meet her shiptoasting quotas?
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#44 - 2017-04-23 15:37:44 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Do you have any idea how much time that woman needs to meet her shiptoasting quotas?


With all that brain and looks too.... *sigh*

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#45 - 2017-04-23 16:47:14 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
.
And if we hadn't found the cure-- and it was by no means clear at the start of Day 3 that we would-- it might have had to be done. That might have ended up being the right call. In the end, the delegates from the Empire, much like almost everyone else, voted not to do such a thing. We didn't have to, so we didn't.


I beg to differ. By the end of the third day when it was clear that a vaccine had been produced, an Amarr clergyman still fervently called for the destruction of the outbreak site. I also heard several Amarr capsuleers express that they "didn't believe" in the vaccine because of strong Minmatar involvement and they also still supported destruction.

To begin with, I would say it was never a prerogative of the Amarr to call for the destruction of Myrskaa. It is not their territory and therefore not their call to make

Quote:

Finally, if someone advertised a Caldari-oriented journal here that featured articles on the evils of bloodline interbreeding, the importance of suppressing dissent, the theft of Caldari culture by "uplifted" Achura, the relative wisdom of perhaps just exterminating "client" peoples rather than tolerating and even (gasp) protecting them, and the belief that persons of Gallentean ancestry are genetically predisposed to be both weak and treacherous, would you really be telling me that I shouldn't complain because it's not for me?


You mean if Diana Kim were to start a Provist propaganda site? Blink

Personally I would welcome that because by following those who support such a publication we would be able to pinpoint the remnants of Provist threat that plague us all.
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#46 - 2017-04-23 16:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarek Raimo
Arrendis wrote:

And why the hell are you quoting yourself? You're the writer. Just say it. Quoting yourself reads like you're trying to give yourself more of an air of authority than your reader would otherwise give you. Tell the reader you're an experienced COINTEL operative and go from there.


No idea how to indicate an out-of-character response, but this is one.

This was unintentional. The whole thing is written as an in-character perspective, and me being the "counter-intelligence-operative" was a running gag that we came up with during the Fanfest proceedings. I wrote the piece but it wasn't intended to be published in my name.

Those first few articles went through virtually no editing, it's all teething problems and for the rest pretty much not super serious Blink

Also, if you think my sentences are too long and lack proper inter-punctuation, consider yourself lucky that you never have to edit pieces written by Apothne Lol

As for the rest, all your editing suggestions are sound, although I would debate the en-dash/em-dash issue with you until the cows come home.
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2017-04-23 18:28:41 UTC
I welcome and endorse any source of Intel.

The activities of Gallente loyalists in New Eden seem to consequently generate lucrative business opportunities for us.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2017-04-23 18:35:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Jev North wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:
And yeah, there are some valid points..

Rather, yes. Your argument seems to be "look, you can't complain about being slandered in Gallentean propaganda because it's aimed at Gallente, not you," which is.. breathtakingly inane.


Jason Galente wrote:
Lastly, since I know at least one mouth-breather is going to think I'm some sort of GalMill boot licker[..]

I wouldn't accuse you of licking Soter's boot, exactly.



To the first point, I actually agree with you which is why I criticized that slanderous statement. I never found the Caldari to be particularly "mendacious" when I lived amongst them. You seem to be bad at reading.

To the second, err, 'point', a Sansha sympathizer acting like classless trash? Surprise surprise. And you complained about slander?

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2017-04-23 18:42:23 UTC
Wow, Arrendis. Actually helpful criticism?

+1

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#50 - 2017-04-23 19:18:31 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
There MUST be an angle!
Well I misread angle as an angel, that got my attention. But still, such cynicism is disheartening.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#51 - 2017-04-23 19:26:23 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
There MUST be an angle!
Well I misread angle as an angel, that got my attention. But still, such cynicism is disheartening.

Did you really just ignore everything I said after? Including immediately after?
Jev North
Doomheim
#52 - 2017-04-23 19:34:30 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:

"I actually agree with you, but you're classless trash" is the best defense you could come up with?

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#53 - 2017-04-23 19:37:18 UTC
Tarek Raimo wrote:
I beg to differ. By the end of the third day when it was clear that a vaccine had been produced, an Amarr clergyman still fervently called for the destruction of the outbreak site. I also heard several Amarr capsuleers express that they "didn't believe" in the vaccine because of strong Minmatar involvement and they also still supported destruction.

To begin with, I would say it was never a prerogative of the Amarr to call for the destruction of Myrskaa. It is not their territory and therefore not their call to make


The doomsayer was a very sick man even on Day 1. He wasn't even about on Day 2. By Day 3, he was ranting his luckless head off. Kyonoke affects the brain, or had you forgotten?

I still wish I'd remembered that we'd approved involuntary treatment; I did get him to the lab, but he wouldn't sit still to be cured.

The call for the destruction of affected areas was a joint proposal by both the Caldari and Amarr-- and Myrskaa is in Caldari territory. (The Amarr also had an infected zone within their territory, though that was in the SOCT station that, kind of impressively, actually managed to keep the pathogen quarantined.)

And I can't really speak to what you might have heard Amarrian capsuleers say, pilot. I was present as part of the SFRIM delegation, and we were working with ARC; CVA voted with us in the end, I believe; I'm not sure there was another Amarrian loyalist element present.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2017-04-23 20:19:51 UTC
Jev North wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:

"I actually agree with you, but you're classless trash" is the best defense you could come up with?


No, fool, it's called addressing separate points.

I'm not in the business of 'defending myself', because that itself concedes ground. If you make a point, and I agree with it, I'll say "I agree with that as a factual statement". You ruin it for yourself by making a point as if you intend to participate in a dialectic, and then personally attacking the person you're conversing with.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Arrendis
TK Corp
#55 - 2017-04-23 21:06:43 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Wow, Arrendis. Actually helpful criticism?

+1


Behold the power of Pedantry.
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#56 - 2017-04-23 23:12:02 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:


I still wish I'd remembered that we'd approved involuntary treatment; I did get him to the lab, but he wouldn't sit still to be cured.



How odd. An Amarr-supported resolution for forced vaccination with an agent that was at this time purely experimental, but by the time it was actually effective you couldn't persuade one of your clergy who was - according to you - delusional to submit to treatment.

You attempt to defend your Empire's proposed extreme measure, but yet you also claim to be unable to rally your own people for treatment. At the same time you hide behind the State's desperation. Where do you really stand in all of this?

My eyes were opened by ARC when they explained to me why they voted against the "no extreme measures" proposal. I understood that this would have lead to a potential outcome where the Caldari would be the only nation stuck with a planetside outbreak. Why were you so eager to sentence Caldari citizens to death? Did you seek to weaken the Caldari even more so they would remain beholden to your Empire?

Gallente capsuleers were in acceptance of a measure that went against the desires of the Federation, while Amarr capsuleers simply sought to maintain superiority over the proceedings and keep the most inhumane options open for them.

Clearly, even as capsuleers you remain incapable of leaving the tenet of Amarr superiority behind. There is nothing that can be construed as a defence for that divisive and extremist clergyman, and as outsiders it was him we saw most prominent during the proceedings.

You are a capsuleer and you were called upon to be a judge over millions, yet you passively yielded the stage to a man who you yourself declare as delusional.

You and all other Amarr capsuleers should have reigned that madmen in, but you couldn't because you are still subject to an outdated hierarchy which does not allow you to do so.

Maybe you learned something from this
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#57 - 2017-04-23 23:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Tarek Raimo wrote:
Maybe you learned something from this


So far, mostly, sir? That you don't actually know what my beliefs and/or loyalties are or why.

(It's understandable; I'm an outlier.)

What I'm not really getting is why you'd hold me (or anybody) responsible for the doomsayer, who was, quite directly, sick. There were rumors early on that the holy water at the shrine was tainted, and this did actually turn out to be the case. How long he'd been ill it was a little hard to say, but he was already raving a bit on Day 1. By Day 3 he was ... as you saw.

I won't say religion had nothing to do with that, but he wasn't sane at that point, either. Possibly he wasn't, before the Inquest, either, but ... that's a little hard to say.

But-- returning to your thoughts: I didn't exercise authority over someone I perceived myself to have no authority over ... and this is bad?

It's not like there was a chain of command; we were, as we normally are as capsuleers, independent operators. In that role, having no authority to stop him, I kind of did what I could. I tried to get his microphone; it didn't work. I conspired with a ally of the moment to steal his hat, hoping he'd be reluctant to continue without proper marks of authority; he continued preaching without it. I tried to get him to submit to treatment; he wouldn't have it. We even tried to file a noise complaint with SoCT security!

It was a little tempting to tie him up, gag him, and leave him in the back row of the meeting hall (maybe get him the cure while we were at it), but then we'd have been the security issue.

In the end, it's not like he had voting power himself or authority to command us. He was just a distraction. I knew he wasn't exactly representing the Empire well, but, we had bigger issues. Like making sure we finished the cure and caught the saboteur before he could undo whatever good we'd done.

Making sure, in other words, those Caldari citizens you seem for some reason to think I wanted dead, didn't have to wind up that way.
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#58 - 2017-04-24 00:20:46 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

I kind of did what I could. I tried to get his microphone; it didn't work. I conspired with a ally of the moment to steal his hat, hoping he'd be reluctant to continue without proper marks of authority; he continued preaching without it. I tried to get him to submit to treatment; he wouldn't have it. We even tried to file a noise complaint with SoCT security!


That sounds like fun. Will we ever get a tale about what happened on the day by day of the inquest ? No fancy reports needed (i´m sure they are on their way), but an account on the sausage making process on the days.

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#59 - 2017-04-24 01:44:21 UTC
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:

I kind of did what I could. I tried to get his microphone; it didn't work. I conspired with a ally of the moment to steal his hat, hoping he'd be reluctant to continue without proper marks of authority; he continued preaching without it. I tried to get him to submit to treatment; he wouldn't have it. We even tried to file a noise complaint with SoCT security!


That sounds like fun. Will we ever get a tale about what happened on the day by day of the inquest ? No fancy reports needed (i´m sure they are on their way), but an account on the sausage making process on the days.


Seconded.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#60 - 2017-04-24 03:35:57 UTC
Actually, I've been putting off finishing my report for the Societas. Everything I could write just seems....

Fragmentary. Unfinished, and unfinishable. So partial as to be nearly useless, for the purpose of really understanding what went on. There was just so much going on that it was hard for me to keep track of even a tiny bit of it, and what's more I wasn't remotely in charge of anything at all. I was mostly just an agent for ARC; a parting of ways at some point was technically possible (we're allies, not a single organization, after all), but such a point never came.

I had very much a "supporting cast" view of history in the making. An extra's view, even. "Random ARC capsuleer #48."

Maybe it would be worthwhile to start up a thread to get a more complete picture of what people saw and thought. I might start one up, even.

I haven't the energy right now, but ... I'll think about it a little.