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Concord

First post
Author
Fifty Three
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-04-22 06:40:24 UTC
Hi. I have a few questions.

1. How long does Concord take to come rescue someone under attack in High Sector?

2. Does response time depend on how big the High sector system is and/or far away the hostile action is taking place from Concord ships?

3. Can a tanked Covetor,Hulk, the weakest of the barges/Exumers survive long enough until Concord arrives usually, without even having offensive capability, like scout drones?
Brigadine Ferathine
Cerberus-Horizon
#2 - 2017-04-22 06:45:54 UTC
Fifty Three wrote:
Hi. I have a few questions.

1. How long does Concord take to come rescue someone under attack in High Sector?

2. Does response time depend on how big the High sector system is and/or far away the hostile action is taking place from Concord ships?

3. Can a tanked Covetor,Hulk, the weakest of the barges/Exumers survive long enough until Concord arrives usually, without even having offensive capability, like scout drones?

Awe somebody got ganked
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2017-04-22 06:49:19 UTC
Fifty Three
Doomheim
#4 - 2017-04-22 07:02:42 UTC
Thanks for the info ShahFluffers.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#5 - 2017-04-22 07:10:32 UTC
Fifty Three wrote:
Hi. I have a few questions.

1. How long does Concord take to come rescue someone under attack in High Sector?

2. Does response time depend on how big the High sector system is and/or far away the hostile action is taking place from Concord ships?

3. Can a tanked Covetor,Hulk, the weakest of the barges/Exumers survive long enough until Concord arrives usually, without even having offensive capability, like scout drones?


1. 6-25 seconds depending on security status and whether CONCORD has already spawned: http://blog.beyondreality.se/TTK-CONCORD

2. No. If CONCORD is already spawned and within 150km to a criminal act they respond near instantly. Otherwise they take the same amount of time to arrive if they are 151km or 100AU away.

3. Depends on the attacker and system. A tanked Hulk in a virgin 1.0 can handle multiple Catalysts until CONCORD responds In 6s. A cargo-expanded Covetor can probably be exploded by a single frigate in 26s in a pulled 0.5. In general though, the Covetor and Hulk are fleet ships that need active defence from a fleet and are intended to be vulnerable and require you to protect them. There are other ships that are much tankier, like the Procurer and Skiff, which you should think about using if you are going to mine in dangerous space like highsec is if you don't have a permit.
Lothros Andastar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-04-22 21:30:11 UTC
Highsec is more dangerous than nullsec
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-04-22 21:31:32 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Highsec is more dangerous than nullsec


that's true!
but some goons are sustaining the opposite in the CSM thread!
pls take a single decision!

ask mittens if in doubt Cool
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#8 - 2017-04-22 21:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: oiukhp Muvila
Soel Reit wrote:
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Highsec is more dangerous than nullsec


that's true!
but some goons are sustaining the opposite in the CSM thread!
pls take a single decision!

ask mittens if in doubt Cool



They just want to keep the game the same.

Hi Sec is basically their own personal fish-barrel when they get bored of Null Sec.
Teros Hakomairos
Doomheim
#9 - 2017-04-22 21:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Teros Hakomairos
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Fifty Three wrote:
Hi. I have a few questions.

1. How long does Concord take to come rescue someone under attack in High Sector?

2. Does response time depend on how big the High sector system is and/or far away the hostile action is taking place from Concord ships?

3. Can a tanked Covetor,Hulk, the weakest of the barges/Exumers survive long enough until Concord arrives usually, without even having offensive capability, like scout drones?

Awe somebody got ganked


Should not happen to a paying customer who don't accepted pvp at least not in high....concord should respond THE SAME SECOND with an 100k alpha on the attacker or an autodestruct of the attacker would help too or CCP should make unsanctioned attacks impossible(in high).....

So many possibilities to protext normal people from this PVP nonsense...
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#10 - 2017-04-22 22:02:55 UTC
Teros Hakomairos wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Fifty Three wrote:
Hi. I have a few questions.

1. How long does Concord take to come rescue someone under attack in High Sector?

2. Does response time depend on how big the High sector system is and/or far away the hostile action is taking place from Concord ships?

3. Can a tanked Covetor,Hulk, the weakest of the barges/Exumers survive long enough until Concord arrives usually, without even having offensive capability, like scout drones?

Awe somebody got ganked


Should not happen to a paying customer who don't accepted pvp at least not in high....concord should respond THE SAME SECOND with an 100k alpha on the attacker or an autodestruct of the attacker would help too or CCP should make unsanctioned attacks impossible(in high).....

So many possibilities to protext normal people from this PVP nonsense...



I think banning Pvp in any space would be against a major core value of this game.

That said, I do think many aspects of Pvp in Hi Sec need to be refactored due to large organized groups having a free-for-all with the established penalties simply being the "cover price" to play.

There is more to it though.


Teros Hakomairos
Doomheim
#11 - 2017-04-22 22:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Teros Hakomairos
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Teros Hakomairos wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Fifty Three wrote:
Hi. I have a few questions.

1. How long does Concord take to come rescue someone under attack in High Sector?

2. Does response time depend on how big the High sector system is and/or far away the hostile action is taking place from Concord ships?

3. Can a tanked Covetor,Hulk, the weakest of the barges/Exumers survive long enough until Concord arrives usually, without even having offensive capability, like scout drones?

Awe somebody got ganked


Should not happen to a paying customer who don't accepted pvp at least not in high....concord should respond THE SAME SECOND with an 100k alpha on the attacker or an autodestruct of the attacker would help too or CCP should make unsanctioned attacks impossible(in high).....

So many possibilities to protext normal people from this PVP nonsense...



I think banning Pvp in any space would be against a major core value of this game.

That said, I do think many aspects of Pvp in Hi Sec need to be refactored due to large organized groups having a free-for-all with the established penalties simply being the "cover price" to play.

There is more to it though.





There is more than enough room for pvp in low and 0.0.....

There you would know what you are risking and if you WANT to risk it it's all your fault....

In high with the risk of beeing ganked you have NO choice because you can't go nowhere else....

Just give PVE ONE place where they can live THEIR sight on the game.....even PVP must admit that this would be just fair....
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#12 - 2017-04-22 22:19:01 UTC
Unfortunately that would go against one of the major things that makes Eve so different from other games.
Banning Pvp outright in any space is probably a non-starter.

I think that is one of the things that would change this game is such a drastic way that it essentially wouldn't be Eve Online anymore.

The fact that Pvp can happen anywhere is what Eve is all about.


I do think that some aspects of it need to be adjusted though.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2017-04-22 22:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Teros Hakomairos wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Teros Hakomairos wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Fifty Three wrote:
Hi. I have a few questions.

1. How long does Concord take to come rescue someone under attack in High Sector?

2. Does response time depend on how big the High sector system is and/or far away the hostile action is taking place from Concord ships?

3. Can a tanked Covetor,Hulk, the weakest of the barges/Exumers survive long enough until Concord arrives usually, without even having offensive capability, like scout drones?

Awe somebody got ganked


Should not happen to a paying customer who don't accepted pvp at least not in high....concord should respond THE SAME SECOND with an 100k alpha on the attacker or an autodestruct of the attacker would help too or CCP should make unsanctioned attacks impossible(in high).....

So many possibilities to protext normal people from this PVP nonsense...



I think banning Pvp in any space would be against a major core value of this game.

That said, I do think many aspects of Pvp in Hi Sec need to be refactored due to large organized groups having a free-for-all with the established penalties simply being the "cover price" to play.

There is more to it though.





There is more tahn enough room for pvp in low and 0.0.....

There you would know what you are risking and if you WANT to risk it it's all your fault....

In high with the risk of beeing ganked you have NO choice because you can't go nowhere else....

Just give PVE ONe place where they can live THEIR sight on the game.....even PVP must admit that this would be just fair....

Why do you want to penalise highsec PVEers in this way?

No risk also means no reward. If you remove PVP from highsec, then that will also be balanced by removing asteroids, missions, incursions, rats and anomalies.

That would be far worse for PVEers than the risk of being ganked. You must really hare PVEers you monster. Far more sociopathic than any pvper.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#14 - 2017-04-23 00:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Teros Hakomairos wrote:
Should not happen to a paying customer who don't accepted pvp at least not in high....concord should respond THE SAME SECOND with an 100k alpha on the attacker or an autodestruct of the attacker would help too or CCP should make unsanctioned attacks impossible(in high).....

So many possibilities to protext normal people from this PVP nonsense...
They logged in to a PvP game, that's your acceptance of the possibility of PvP happening to them right there.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Cade Windstalker
#15 - 2017-04-23 06:25:37 UTC
Teros Hakomairos wrote:
Should not happen to a paying customer who don't accepted pvp at least not in high....concord should respond THE SAME SECOND with an 100k alpha on the attacker or an autodestruct of the attacker would help too or CCP should make unsanctioned attacks impossible(in high).....

So many possibilities to protext normal people from this PVP nonsense...


This is not the way the game works, or has ever worked.

If you want a game that works that way I hear there are other Sci-Fi games out there, some of them are single player so you can guarantee nothing bad will happen to you unless you let it.

CCP have repeatedly said that CONCORD is not prevention they are a punishment and they are not going to prevent suicide ganking in High Sec. It is meant to be safer not safe.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2017-04-23 06:46:09 UTC
While I concur with the idea that high sec isn't supposed to be safe I often wonder if the risk/reward ratio is high enough. If it isn't, then perhaps there needs to be more risk on the part of those carrying out the ganking activity for profit. And yes, I am aware not all do it for profit and simply just for the kill.

I say that because another core philosophy of EVE is the greater the risk then the greater the reward. That doesn't seem to be the case in highsec where you can earn substantial rewards with less risk.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#17 - 2017-04-23 07:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
While I concur with the idea that high sec isn't supposed to be safe I often wonder if the risk/reward ratio is high enough. If it isn't, then perhaps there needs to be more risk on the part of those carrying out the ganking activity for profit. And yes, I am aware not all do it for profit and simply just for the kill..

How do you propose to do so? No matter what variables CCP settles on for the CONCORD response, players can still choose to put whatever they want in their ships (like say 24 PLEX), undock, and then go get an ice cream. All you can do is tweak the variables to set the cost to attack someone, but if a player chooses to make themselves a profitable target by carrying more than that cost, there is nothing CCP can do to make it more risky to attack the more rewarding targets.

The risk vs. reward paradigm is relevant to PvE rewards that spawn into our shared universe, but makes much less sense in PvP encounters like suicide ganking where the effective risks are determined by the players. It's also much less important given that PvP only destroys assets in the shared universe, rather than adding new ones and devaluing the assets of everyone else like PvE does.

Maybe there does need to be larger windows of vulnerability for criminals in highsec but it is really hard for players to compete with the infallible NPCs that do much of that work for them. A cost is just a 100% certain risk and so highsec criminals do indeed have to deal with risk and loss, even if those risks are generally predictable like CONCORD and the loot fairy. I think highsec players either have to accept the guaranteed retaliation that CONCORD provides and the fact that that leave very little room to interact with the criminals, or reduce the NPC protection and create a larger space for players to interfere with criminals and more uncertainty for them. Frankly though, I don't think most highsec players will want to give up some of the free but predictable protection CONCORD offers in order to leave room for them to shoot the bad guys themselves.
Kaeden 3142
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2017-04-23 08:05:56 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Highsec is more dangerous than nullsec


High Security space should be just that and have a proactive Concord response instead of a reactive one. For example as soon as the safety switch is set to red you are deemed hostile.
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2017-04-23 08:11:41 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
another core philosophy of EVE is the greater the risk then the greater the reward.
While that is fundamentally right, I believe there are a lot more factors than these two that activities are balanced around. Like required investment in ISK and skills, the complexity of knowledge one needs to be effective, the number of ships (alts or players) to be coordinated... ahh, and if luck is needed or not too.

I'm too new to form an opinion about how well balanced ganking is in terms of ISK generation, but it's definately the activity that needs the most organization, cooperation and concentration of the things that I had the chance to try in EvE.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Kia Heaven
We Are Clowns
#20 - 2017-04-23 08:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kia Heaven
Kaeden 3142 wrote:
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Highsec is more dangerous than nullsec


High Security space should be just that and have a proactive Concord response instead of a reactive one. For example as soon as the safety switch is set to red you are deemed hostile.


I don't think giving NPCs proactive behaviour is a good idea to implement in a player-driven sandbox.
To me, players should be able to enlist in either concord or faction police and try to do the cops: given the law, which clearly disallows shooting first unless certain circumstances, a player-cop should be able to fight gankers and pirates (and protect the victims with logisticts?). Then maybe concord NPCs number can be decreased, their response time tweaked and security status of the systems based upon the player police force.
Cops that go against the law should be punished and, eventually, kicked from the faction police / concord; good cops can either be regularly paid with taxes or with LP/isk for every lawful action.
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