Player Features and Ideas Discussion

All of these wardec threads are a joke. Eve is like an old west town taken over by bandits, mercs, and psychos. They love throwing their weight around, bullying all the townies that are too weak and inexperienced to put up much of a fight. Then, when those townies leave for less dangerous places, the bandits are left sitting around, no one left to bully but each other, wondering where all the easy marks went. Of course, this is a gross simplification of a complex community, but there is a ring of truth to it.

Eve is a game. CCP is a business. They have to make money. They can only continue to do this by bringing in and retaining new players. By most accounts, this is not currently happening. The recent play-for-free changes are supposed to be a change to reverse this trend. Only time will tell if it works. But, based on the preponderance of posts on 'wardec abuse' and other complaints, it may be that free-to-play isn't going to be enough.

I certainly recognize the feelings of those that lament any change to Eve that compromises the hard-core experience. To them, safe zones fly in the very face of what Eve is supposed to represent. It galls them that others might achieve their stature without having to endure their trials and sacrifices (or worse, by buying it all up front). Hell, it galls them that anyone would even make the attempt. There is something to be said for paying proper dues.

And while I recognize their feelings, I don't agree with them. Eve is not supposed to be just one thing. If it was originally supposed to be a lawless free-for-all, why was Concord created? Why is there any PvE at all? Why are exploration and trade offered as options along side combat roles? (You can literally devote hundreds of hours to the game, make billions of ISK and never leave the dock). Why is the Eve universe so freaking beautiful? There are many reasons for playing Eve and they are all valid as long as the game supports them.

I'll admit up front, I have zero interest in PvP. I don't have any desire to take from others or to destroy what they have created. The Eve hardcore will say that makes me a carebear, and maybe so. I came to Eve to explore, to experience its vast beauty and scale, to see if I could learn how to navigate between the stars, and maybe find a treasure or two along the way. As such, I'm certainly an anathema to the hardcore old guard. They say there should be no place for players like me in Eve. I disagree, and I think CCP disagrees as well.

Currently, I've been able to do all the things I've mentioned, and I have enjoyed doing it. If, however, every third time I undocked, some psycho suicide-ganked me, I wouldn't be enjoying it at all. That doesn't make me weak, it makes me normal. I play video games because I'm looking for entertainment and a diversion. That I'm not looking to blow some other player out of existence doesn't make me a loser. That I don't want to lose something I've invested hours or days in building doesn't make me a coward. It just makes me perhaps different than you.

Now, I've accepted that my choice of play style comes with consequences; that I may have to give up some aspects of Eve to maintain my level of enjoyment. To date, I have remained in HiSec (which is what I thought was the point of HiSec) and I have to be content with the loot available in HiSec (which I am so far). My paltry 10 mil a week income isn't skewing any market, and I have no ambitions about building an empire of POSs and hiding behind walls and an army of mercs. And now that I know joining a player corp means that I can become an open target at any moment, I'll live with the high tax rate of the NPC corp I'm in. Does that make me safe? Nope. I can still be ganked at any time by anyone with the will. There is certainly no lack of players with the funds and the mindset - some folks just want to see Rome burn. It may be that tomorrow I'll find HiSec too restricting, too small, and I'll cast my ship into the hungry space of null sec. Or it may be never. But it should be my choice, not yours.

That I can play as I have does not sit well with the purists. Some will even express open disdain for such a play style. That I can do this seems somehow insulting to them, as though my choices or behavior have somehow diminished their accomplishments. To me, it's a bit like a professional baseball player getting pissed at weekend softball players that just play for fun. I don't understand it. Eve is a massive world. There's room enough for all types of players. So far, CCP has made at least some effort in supporting a variety of play styles. Wardec, as it's currently implemented is counter to such efforts. If some of the purists had their way, there wouldn't even be HiSec. And they have a right to their belief. But, changes that allow experienced, well-geared, and advanced players to prey upon inexperienced, poorly-geared, and novice players anytime, anywhere without significant risk or consequence make the game untenable for me. I'll move on to another game, and CCP would be out another subscription. The purists would be happy, of course, but their joy won't likely last.

The truth is that the bitter vets need the very cannon fodder they see as weak whiners if they want Eve to continue in the long term. And if CCP doesn't make a stronger effort to court and retain all kinds of players in whatever form that must be, their dissolution may come sooner rather than later. This, in the end, is a game owned by a business. The goal of the business, to make money, will decide how things change. It won't be the arbitrary, narrow view of subset of the playing community.

Excuse me, now. I have to go create a new account.

Also, about that diminishing the value of accomplishments thing? It's YOUR accomplishments that would be diminished if you were given the safety you demand. Accomplishing something is meaningless if there is no chance to fail, and that chance of failure is what makes EVE a great game despite its rather dull mechanics. If you succeed at something in EVE it's because you overcame adversity and forced the world to acknowledge your success, not merely because you invested sufficient hours in grinding to level up enough times. If you remove the chance of failure, as provided by wars/suicide ganks/etc then your accomplishments are no longer special. You are no longer the lone success in a sea of failures, you're just one more mindless PvE player grinding away until you inevitably reach the goal that everyone else has reached.

That's your definition of accomplishment, and fortunately, I'm not required to live or play by your definitions. I'm not interested in forcing the world to do anything. That's a fool's errand and the bully's fantasy. You talk like you think you're some great space Conan, driving your enemies before you, enjoying the lamentations of their women. What you really are is just some sad person who gets off on bullying others in a virtual world. And you argue like you play: you try to bully. You don't get to define what's right for me, just like I don't get to define what's right for you (notice, BTW, I've never stated that anyone should be playing EVE the way I am).

Eve is a game. It's supposed to be enjoyed. You may believe that I have to adhere to your definition of enjoyment, but you're wrong. I'm free to try to find my own way. And if Eve changes to the point that I can't enjoy it anymore, I'll move on to another game. I've not requested that CCP to make Eve safer, and I've never argued that there should be zero risk. What I am stating is that CCP obviously feels the need to make changes to stop the bleeding, your head in the sand attitude notwithstanding. If they want to appeal to more gamers, it only stands to reason that they need to support as much play style variety as they can without losing who they are. It's a tough task, but the whole market will determine whether they are successful. You bullies alone can't carry the day.

And I've never been ganked (though, after these posts, I expect it will become much more likely... ). If you actually read my post, I wrote IF I was being ganked every third undock. As in, if the game changed enough that I couldn't even undock without getting podded, it would be untenable for me. Of course, I know that the absence of ganking is not due to any skill I possess. It's has a lot more to do with the fact that I've never been worth the trouble. But in Eve, it doesn't have to be about ISK. The day after I started playing, someone placed a 100k bounty on me, not for anything I did (I was only running career missions at the time - I couldn't have pissed anyone off), but just because they could. I'm sure they thought it would be funny. Being a newb, I didn't even realize it until a few weeks later. Of course I panicked, thinking everyone was going to shoot me out of the sky for that free ISK. Turns out, it's not that big a deal. To most players, it's chump change. But the point was that players in Eve don't have to have a good reason for doing anything. If someone wants to take you out, they can. Even you, the great and fearsome Merin, can be taken out by any player with the will and the resources to do it. And what would that prove? Absolutely nothing. That you can ambush someone means nothing. That you can take out newbs in probes, thrashers, or ventures with your T2 10 mil SP full implant avatars doesn't make you special or great. It just makes you a jerk.

Your definition of fun is not mine. Your definition of success is not mine. You are free to pursue your vision as you wish. But, you aren't going to dictate to me what mine should be. Only CCP can do that. If they want to keep me as a paying customer, then they need to support my vision as well as yours. I don't see the two as incompatible. That you do is your problem. Time will tell if CCP agrees with you.

although I do agree larger more experienced corps farming *lesser*newbie corps does little more than funnel those players to join a bigger corp as really you cannot win

But eve is not about always winning or being fair it is a cruel game sometimes and losses happen and you either learn and adapt or you lose , I'm hopeful something in the future is implemented to help newer smaller corps survive and grow but losing a battle or a war is not the end of the game it is sometimes just the start .

As always interesting, whenever anyone suggests any change or improvement or adjustment of widely out of balanced systems, the assumption always comes, "ah! You want a totally safe place!" "Eve is hard, suck it up or GTFO".

Actually when noticing the elephant in the room, and one finds it in the Kitchen, guzzling down your Milk, ramming your hot cross buns down it's throat, and crapping in your Cats dinner. Suggesting it might be better off in the garden raises cries of "you hate elephants! Elephant hater!" Go live in a cats home, you pussy".

Thereby neatly ignoring and deflecting from, the issues created by the elephant. Pretending it isn't there does not make The kitchen a more pleasant place to be.

Actually we do like them, just in the right place, maybe a bit less over fed and lazy and with better bowel control, so they do not dominate everything. Nothing wrong with a few elephants.

But

The cat will never forgive what it did to its dinner though.

EVE players tend to be risk averse, so what would stop every single corporation/alliance living in Highsec from using alts to establish structures for their members use? Wardeccers could come and knock down your alt's structure, but members would never be at risk of a war unless you chose to ally to defend the structure.

I also don't like structure grinding. :(

It would be very expensive... Well, except not really. Consider the two most common Upwell structures - the Astrahus and the Raitaru. They are currently 1b and 0.6b at Jita prices, respectively. While this might seem like a lot of money, an average incursion runner can make that much in ten hours or less. This results in highsec being littered with structures that no one cares about or even probably remembers exist. Most highsec citadel owners don't care to show up for a single rf timer. Even the larger structures, like Azbels, don't usually see a lot of fighting (you'll get a guy to man the guns if you're really unlucky). Only Fortizars are being fought over, but most of them is AUTZ tanked and won't see any action anyway.