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Destruction of my Charon!

Author
Teros Hakomairos
Doomheim
#21 - 2017-04-17 15:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Teros Hakomairos
Keno Skir wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I agree and the player log in numbers confirm it.


DMC


You could say that to literally any post that says something bad about EvE.

"yeah well the player numbers support it" is meaningless unless you can demonstrate somehow that this specific reason is to blame and not the myriad of other potential reasons that have all be discussed to death.

There are less players than at EvE's peak, but i don't believe for a second it's because of wardecs. I learned loads from being wardecced as a new player, and thoroughly enjoyed it.


It's really simple....ganks in hi outside of wars have to stop......

I don't care HOW ccp archives this but they HAVE to....

The people vote with their feets,or to say it clear,they leave.

All that will be left soon will be Alphas and a few people that get blinded by "growing player numbers"

But what are growing player numbers good fot if a minimum of 9/10 are alphas.

In the end CCP will have no choice than to complete the ftp reconstruction and make it ftp only with all consequences like buyable packages in the shop that gives you -for more money a sub once costed- full access to all elements of the game.....

This is the future if there's no turnaround.......
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#22 - 2017-04-17 15:36:35 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I agree and the player log in numbers confirm it.


DMC


You could say that to literally any post that says something bad about EvE.

"yeah well the player numbers support it" is meaningless unless you can demonstrate somehow that this specific reason is to blame and not the myriad of other potential reasons that have all be discussed to death.

There are less players than at EvE's peak, but i don't believe for a second it's because of wardecs. I learned loads from being wardecced as a new player, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I never implied or said it was due to WarDecs. However during the years that I've been playing this game I can definitely cite a few examples of players who quit due to too many trigger happy jerks in high sec shooting unarmed ships just to pad their KM stats.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. If you think there's no problem then you're part of the problem.


DMC

if you think safe spaces are a thing in EVE, then you're playing the wrong game DMC
Everyone knows that in EVE, there are only player rules (and the EULA)

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Keno Skir
#23 - 2017-04-17 15:55:30 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I agree and the player log in numbers confirm it.


DMC


You could say that to literally any post that says something bad about EvE.

"yeah well the player numbers support it" is meaningless unless you can demonstrate somehow that this specific reason is to blame and not the myriad of other potential reasons that have all be discussed to death.

There are less players than at EvE's peak, but i don't believe for a second it's because of wardecs. I learned loads from being wardecced as a new player, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I never implied or said it was due to WarDecs. However during the years that I've been playing this game I can definitely cite a few examples of players who quit due to too many trigger happy jerks in high sec shooting unarmed ships just to pad their KM stats.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. If you think there's no problem then you're part of the problem.


DMC


You implied it was due to wardecs by agreeing with the previous post that said it was specifically due to wardecs, sorry for my confusion ;)

Butt-hurt carebears trying to "safe space" the game are actually the problem. Wardecs are easy to avoid, and you don't have to lose out on community to do it because you can create infinite community chat rooms which accomplish the same thing as most corps. Ganking is also easily avoided as evidenced by the VAST MAJORITY of haulers who play just fine by using a small amount of common sense.

Ganking is fine because it's avoidable with good strategy.

Wardecs are fine because they are avoidable with good strategy.

I genuinely don't understand what the problem is that you think i'm "part of" so could you include some actual content next time you post? Please include reasons why you think easily avoidable situations are breaking the game Pirate
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2017-04-17 19:01:08 UTC
Some of you are bringing up dropping average numbers on Tranquility. They do definitely seem to be returning to a pre-Ascension range at the moment. The reason I have read that the numbers dropped quite a bit in the past couple years or so has been partly due to the skill queue changes. There was a Dev I believe who brought this up in a past thread/blog and they had ideas on how to deal with it awhile back. The alpha clone idea was perhaps a way to stem the tide, but let's be honest here that it was also a way to bring in more content in whatever form for New Eden.

I don't think that the dropping numbers are solely due to any one thing really. Ganking and being wardec'd can suck I agree! I've been blown up many many times and it sucks to feel interrupted in your daily routine in a game. Some of these gankers care about profit, while others do not care at all and just want to inflate their Zkillboard stats. Yet, wardec'ing has become a bit tougher than it used to be in order to try and ensure you have a healthy range of targets to shoot. Even Wardec'ing someone itself could be for any number of reasons for all any of us know.

This game however relies on the players to do something. Everyone concerned can sit here and hope and beg CCP does something, or you can put together a group that starts something to counter this behavior. Some have already formed counter ganking groups in EVE, perhaps this is a new fight all could join in on. Perhaps it might be in certain groups interests to band together and form an alliance with their own ops, doctrines, and groups specializing in counter ganking and wardec'ing. You'd likely have a ton of content, and you'd also perhaps start to make a new chapter in EVE history. Maybe that isn't what you signed up for, but at least you'd be doing something to defend an area of space you care about as well as those within it.

I've seen people fight back against ganking so maybe some underestimate the 'carebears' that are willing to join such a group.

How to do this:

Build corporations out of alts and form an alliance. These alts don't care if they are wardec'd 24/7 and it doesn't interrupt your main activities.

Put together a website/forum/whatever where you can communicate with each other along with intel and chat channels.

Put together strategic doctrines to help you accomplish your goals, which you might not even need at first if you bring a fairly decent ship comp to start.

Train/recruit knowledgeable FC's

Add SRP, and with so many industrial corporations in high sec even receiving donated ships and modules probably won't be much of an issue to help replace losses.

Offer escorts, defense of wardec'ing, etc to aid others throughout all of high sec.

Build allies with other alliances that agree to come and help assist you as part of an agreement. Perhaps they don't like the guys you are fighting as well for their own reasons.
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2017-04-17 19:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
However during the years that I've been playing this game I can definitely cite a few examples of players who quit due to too many trigger happy jerks in high sec shooting unarmed ships just to pad their KM stats.
How many is too many? What do you think whould have been an appropritely low percentage of the current ganker population that whould have ensured that those players stick to the game?


(yaaay, we didn't have this thread for -days- now!)

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#26 - 2017-04-17 19:56:34 UTC
Teros Hakomairos wrote:
That's the problem with this game.....

Too many trigger happy jerks that see sense in the senseless.....

I know...war .....this is a pvp game......leave if you don't like it......and so on....
I heard it all......

But i still don't get it why someone has FUN in shooting an unarmed ship....i don't care if it's a barge or a freighter.....

Sure...you can create MANY excuses why this is "a good thing" but the simple truth leads to only one conclusion...it's all about the kill...to disturb someones day to the core.....and finding this funny is - i apologize- simply sick.....

Someone who finds it funny to spoil someone's day needs medical and mental help......quick......

It's a game you know? I sometimes wonder if people even know what that is, a game.

And the more I read here on the forums, the more I appreciate, that my parents didn't spoil our fun playing "Mensch ärgere Dich nicht" with us as children.

Of course there may be some players, that delight in another player's misfortune. But eventually you get to know them. For all the rest out there, it's just a game...

Remove standings and insurance.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2017-04-17 20:02:20 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:

if you think safe spaces are a thing in EVE, then you're playing the wrong game DMC
Everyone knows that in EVE, there are only player rules (and the EULA)



Keno Skir wrote:


You implied it was due to wardecs by agreeing with the previous post that said it was specifically due to wardecs, sorry for my confusion ;)

Butt-hurt carebears trying to "safe space" the game are actually the problem. Wardecs are easy to avoid, and you don't have to lose out on community to do it because you can create infinite community chat rooms which accomplish the same thing as most corps. Ganking is also easily avoided as evidenced by the VAST MAJORITY of haulers who play just fine by using a small amount of common sense.

Ganking is fine because it's avoidable with good strategy.

Wardecs are fine because they are avoidable with good strategy.

I genuinely don't understand what the problem is that you think i'm "part of" so could you include some actual content next time you post? Please include reasons why you think easily avoidable situations are breaking the game Pirate

Swear to GOD you two losers seriously need to train up reading comprehension to level 5 and stop putting words into my mouth. I really don't give a rats arse about the BS you guys keep trying to sell everyone every time this topic comes up.

I started playing this game way before the two of you started playing. I remember exactly how it was when I first joined compared to how it is now. Over the years I've seen how this game has progressed. In 2009 the log in numbers increased substantially each year through 2013 with an average amount of 40k on weekdays and average amount of 60k on weekends, then the numbers started dropping and have continued to drop at a rapid pace to half that amount. I don't need to explain anything, the numbers speak for themselves.


DMC
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#28 - 2017-04-17 20:04:22 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:

if you think safe spaces are a thing in EVE, then you're playing the wrong game DMC
Everyone knows that in EVE, there are only player rules (and the EULA)



Keno Skir wrote:


You implied it was due to wardecs by agreeing with the previous post that said it was specifically due to wardecs, sorry for my confusion ;)

Butt-hurt carebears trying to "safe space" the game are actually the problem. Wardecs are easy to avoid, and you don't have to lose out on community to do it because you can create infinite community chat rooms which accomplish the same thing as most corps. Ganking is also easily avoided as evidenced by the VAST MAJORITY of haulers who play just fine by using a small amount of common sense.

Ganking is fine because it's avoidable with good strategy.

Wardecs are fine because they are avoidable with good strategy.

I genuinely don't understand what the problem is that you think i'm "part of" so could you include some actual content next time you post? Please include reasons why you think easily avoidable situations are breaking the game Pirate

Tears


DMC

so because we don't have your perfect point of view, we are losers now? hahahaha
please, go sit in the corner and refrain from talking

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2017-04-17 21:22:04 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:

Tears

because we don't have your perfect point of view, we are losers.

Yeah,

I know you don't misquote others intentionally either, it's just a force of habit.

Roll




DMC
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2017-04-17 21:39:43 UTC
Maybe it is just a coincidence, but DecShield stopped being a thing in 2013 right? Maybe that has a part in it as well. But I'd be very interested to hear you're history of what happened and how it happened DMC. I wasn't around playing the game back then.
Was ganking not a thing back in 2013? Was High Sec too safe and others like CODE. decided to act?

Maybe there is a Wiki somewhere with a detailed rich history in how this all really got started. If it truly is the reason for less logging in, then it would be good to see some proof.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#31 - 2017-04-17 22:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Maybe it is just a coincidence, but DecShield stopped being a thing in 2013 right? Maybe that has a part in it as well. But I'd be very interested to hear you're history of what happened and how it happened DMC. I wasn't around playing the game back then.
Was ganking not a thing back in 2013? Was High Sec too safe and others like CODE. decided to act?

Maybe there is a Wiki somewhere with a detailed rich history in how this all really got started. If it truly is the reason for less logging in, then it would be good to see some proof.

Ganking was a thing in 2009 and earlier. It just wasn't such a continously organised thing. But parts of HS were also roamed regularly by Shadow Cartel (Immortalis) and other organizations.

Evelopedia

Hulkageddon I

Hulkageddon II

If you read through the stuff, joy and tears were pretty much the same as today.

Later, in 2010/2011 I knew some pilots who took part in both Hulkageddon I and II. Besides living in WHs they were also dedicated industrialists (including all types of mining) who knew the game in and out. Nice and cool guys to fly with. Never seen any of them again, since they went offline in 2012 / 2013 though.

It's more of an impression, no real numbers. But I think, there's less diversity in many players gameplay nowadays; sides are more pronounced and positions entrenched as a consequence.

Remove standings and insurance.

Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-04-17 23:41:05 UTC
Interesting thanks for the info and response. If it's lack of diversity then I wonder how CCP could improve upon that, or us as players if at all possible.
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
#33 - 2017-04-18 14:24:16 UTC
Wardecs should be the only pvp option in high sec. Fix it, re-vamp it, do whatever you have to do to make it a good combat system for high sec. Wardecs need to stay, ganking needs to go.

The high sec griefing needs to stop because it is chasing away players. There is plenty of pvp to be found outside high sec for those who want to play the "pirate" character. I know several players that have left because of this style of play. Alphas are leaving because of these "elite pvpers", who's only purpose is ruining someone's day and padding their KB.

Can someone explain to me, what's the fun in blowing up a week old character's retriever or Itty V? Is it really fun? Is that the best pvp you can find? Really? Get a life.

I have tried to help new players fit their ships better and help with tips to survive, but we all know skills are a huge part of ehp, align, etc..., which along with experience are necessary skills to survive properly. However, before they get a chance to learn and explore the different paths of Eve and gain that crucial experience, they are picked on and griefed to the point a good number are leaving.

CCP should discuss with big merc corps to find the best option to improve the war dec system to replace all other forms of pvp in high sec, so high sec can once again flourish.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2017-04-18 14:32:12 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

I never implied or said it was due to WarDecs. However during the years that I've been playing this game I can definitely cite a few examples of players who quit due to too many trigger happy jerks in high sec shooting unarmed ships just to pad their KM stats.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. If you think there's no problem then you're part of the problem.


DMC


I would agree with you, if it is was not so F'''''''''' easy to avoid loosing ships. When I started EVE, i did half a day of research (Different Videos, Eveuni etc.) and learned everything about D-scan, MWD+cloak and using a scout. There is really no excuse for loosing a ship if you don't want to. So if people looses ships, it is their own fault.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#35 - 2017-04-18 15:24:10 UTC
How the flying **** can someone be 'trigger happy" in a game where 98% of the ships mount copious amounts of guns and missiles?

I mean it's crazy, people screaming "why are you shooting at me" in a video game. The answer is of course "why not, this isn't real".

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#36 - 2017-04-18 15:24:56 UTC
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:


The high sec griefing needs to stop because it is chasing away players.


And this part is just an outright lie.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#37 - 2017-04-18 15:34:22 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


I started playing this game way before the two of you started playing. I remember exactly how it was when I first joined compared to how it is now. Over the years I've seen how this game has progressed. In 2009 the log in numbers increased substantially each year through 2013 with an average amount of 40k on weekdays and average amount of 60k on weekends, then the numbers started dropping and have continued to drop at a rapid pace to half that amount. I don't need to explain anything, the numbers speak for themselves.


DMC


December 12, 2012

That's what happened, they listened to people screeching about safety and'new players'. People like you who don't understand that danger is the key to excitement and EVE became a less exciting game because CCP made it harder for this to happen., and it's literally been downhill from there.


Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2017-04-18 17:02:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


I started playing this game way before the two of you started playing. I remember exactly how it was when I first joined compared to how it is now. Over the years I've seen how this game has progressed. In 2009 the log in numbers increased substantially each year through 2013 with an average amount of 40k on weekdays and average amount of 60k on weekends, then the numbers started dropping and have continued to drop at a rapid pace to half that amount. I don't need to explain anything, the numbers speak for themselves.


DMC


December 12, 2012

That's what happened, they listened to people screeching about safety and'new players'. People like you who don't understand that danger is the key to excitement and EVE became a less exciting game because CCP made it harder for this to happen., and it's literally been downhill from there.




It's easy for both side to point at stuff as the cause for the downfall but nobody actually has the actual good info which would be the player who quit telling why they quit. Unless someone actually has that info, everybody can call BS on anyone else's claim. Anybody looking for a silver bullet reason why people started leaving is more than likely wrong. With the total number of changes begin done to the game over time, there is a **** load of individual reasons why someone can quit but they all end up in the same bucket of people who quit no matter what their own reason was. It's a rather small niche they are occupying so for all we know, 40k might have been over what can actually be sustained for a game like that.

You read the forum so you know just as much as me there is also part of the population who wold be gone no matter what if it wasn't of the investment already done in it. If you were to remove those eternally unhappy people because they obvioulsy don't belong here in a game they dislike, the numbers might be even worse except wee don't want that to happen because EVE won't continue once we drop below a certain point. No matter how much the devs says they love this game and are passionate about it, I'm pretty sure a large group of them would leave if they had to do it on their own $$$ because the game can't sustain itself.

In the mean time, the bleed is real and the upcoming changes will need to be positive of both the actual player base and upcoming newbies for the subs to stabilize. You can't live forever on your "core" client base because their life change from new jobs and responsibilities to taste changes in entertainment all the way to the deep end with sad stuff like death. The question is, is the market drained for this type of game and changes are needed to get replacement or is it not tapped and just a question of time before people find out about this game. Where are the player who want this kind of game but somehow haven't found it? And if they haven't found it yet, will they ever find their way in "EVE Online: The sandbox with no player direction"? These people will have to be reached somehow for the trend to downward trend to stop. If it's not with game changes because EVE has to stay EVE, then it will have to be in a different way.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#39 - 2017-04-18 17:25:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
However, before they get a chance to learn and explore the different paths of Eve and gain that crucial experience, they are picked on and griefed to the point a good number are leaving.

This is what you need to do to get started in EVE in HS:


  1. Acquire decent reading skills
  2. Read and understand the new pilot faq
  3. Read and understand the 8 golden rules
  4. Acquire some common sense
  5. HTFU
  6. Undock
  7. Have fun


And while it may not always be easy, it's not rocket science either.

Remove standings and insurance.

Keno Skir
#40 - 2017-04-18 17:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:

if you think safe spaces are a thing in EVE, then you're playing the wrong game DMC
Everyone knows that in EVE, there are only player rules (and the EULA)



Keno Skir wrote:


You implied it was due to wardecs by agreeing with the previous post that said it was specifically due to wardecs, sorry for my confusion ;)

Butt-hurt carebears trying to "safe space" the game are actually the problem. Wardecs are easy to avoid, and you don't have to lose out on community to do it because you can create infinite community chat rooms which accomplish the same thing as most corps. Ganking is also easily avoided as evidenced by the VAST MAJORITY of haulers who play just fine by using a small amount of common sense.

Ganking is fine because it's avoidable with good strategy.

Wardecs are fine because they are avoidable with good strategy.

I genuinely don't understand what the problem is that you think i'm "part of" so could you include some actual content next time you post? Please include reasons why you think easily avoidable situations are breaking the game Pirate

Swear to GOD you two losers seriously need to train up reading comprehension to level 5 and stop putting words into my mouth. I really don't give a rats arse about the BS you guys keep trying to sell everyone every time this topic comes up.

I started playing this game way before the two of you started playing. I remember exactly how it was when I first joined compared to how it is now. Over the years I've seen how this game has progressed. In 2009 the log in numbers increased substantially each year through 2013 with an average amount of 40k on weekdays and average amount of 60k on weekends, then the numbers started dropping and have continued to drop at a rapid pace to half that amount. I don't need to explain anything, the numbers speak for themselves.


DMC


I asked you to specifically address my points regarding how easy it actually is to avoid wardecs and ganking, not have a massive cry and throw your toys out of the pram.

My request still stands :

Please submit reasons why you think easily avoidable situations are breaking the game. Please don't claim once again that you don't need to explain because it's pretty clear that you do. I also don't think you actually know how long I've been playing, but since it makes no difference I'll let it slide. The dates you listed with regard to player decline actually match pretty perfectly with CCP starting to make EvE safer, causing the decline potentially.

Most of all please stay calm, it's just a game Pirate
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