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Planet V Trade

Author
Ch00Ch00 Train
We Drop On You
#61 - 2017-03-15 18:50:53 UTC
You guys understand that 0.1% tax doesn't end up getting paid by the traders, right? If all traders are paying 0.1% tax, then the value of the buy orders decrease and the value of the sell orders increase so that traders can continue to make their margin. Allsales Final, you get that right?
Cor'El Dahken
Unicorn Fatale
#62 - 2017-03-15 19:15:22 UTC
Allsales Final wrote:
Toobo wrote:


...

The cost can increase but if that helps to create bigger profit where the new profit minus increased broker fee is bigger then obviously that makes more ISK. :p

I have to admit, I find it very difficult to understand you. I get the impression that you use more and more words when you have less and less to say.

I understand Love Turtle. He wants freedom of trade and lower fees. Boom. Done. What is it you want? Why are you posting so many words in this thread?

As I said: very odd.

Lower my fees or go away.



I'm not sure if this is what toobos is going on about but I'll have my own input as to why higher broker fees are better for me.
All the plebs who can only trade with little to non existent broker fees are pushed out of the market.
Less competition means higher margins. Higher margins more profit.

Hopefully that explains it a bit more for you.
While it is nice to have low fees this has pushed alot of items to razor thin margins forcing volume to be king and .01 isking to be rampant.
Buy orders and sell orders are not 'generally' filled by traders. So in theory with higher fees and higher margins with the volume staying around the same. Alot more profit to be had by the traders that stick around.

Allsales Final
Stars in No Sky
#63 - 2017-03-15 19:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Allsales Final
.
Cor'El Dahken
Unicorn Fatale
#64 - 2017-03-15 22:22:43 UTC
If you think even a corp the size of horde can monopolize all the items in a market the size of Jita I think you should run your numbers again.

And honestly if all of these traders are hating on horde so much why have they not paid someone to take out their structures and Pocos in highsec?? I dare say if all the upset traders put their funds together they could afford it.
Allsales Final
Stars in No Sky
#65 - 2017-03-15 22:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Allsales Final
.
Jarr Kaleb
#66 - 2017-03-15 23:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
Cor'El Dahken wrote:
And honestly if all of these traders are hating on horde so much why have they not paid someone to take out their structures and Pocos in highsec?? I dare say if all the upset traders put their funds together they could afford it.
I doubt "these traders" hate PH that much... Roll Besides why waste money to blap structures not many people use.

But, if they can build a trade hub similar to what Karin had, perhaps it would be a good idea to consider. Twisted
Cor'El Dahken
Unicorn Fatale
#67 - 2017-03-15 23:33:40 UTC
Allsales Final wrote:
Cor'El Dahken wrote:
If you think even a corp the size of horde can monopolize all the items in a market the size of Jita I think you should run your numbers again.

What? "...monopolize all the items..." lol

Do you really not understand this?

Wow


you seem to think that someone paying less fees than you will push you out of business?

I just stated that if your problem is Horde paying 0% and everyone else paying 2% I highly doubt it will affect your trading operations much.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#68 - 2017-03-16 00:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Toobo
I've said enough to make my point. I hope some people have gotten something out of it. If some didn't, well I tried.

What Cor'El Dahken said is part of it - too many throw away orders, a shot in the dark, with inconsequential broker fees, the cost of setting up an order is next to nothing, which means it a stupid game of just setting up orders for whatever in case you catch odd sale/purchase here and there.

There's also something else. I'll use RL example for easier understanding. A lot of people drive cars, and yes a lot of people would love cheaper petrol price. But OBVIOUSLY increase in the oil price will make more money for some people in the world. I don't understand how anyone cannot see that or deny that fact.

Good luck with your Planet V projects & free trade movement or whatever. TBH I think it's cool as a player driven content/incentive/project. I always like these things and respect people who put in effort to initiate and push such projects.

I just don't see any moral high ground in doing this though. And that's what I generally do not like. It's not much different from CODE. doing their RP thing as the 'saviour of high sec', just rephrased as saviour of the free trade.

Toobo out. Good luck o7


EDIT: like, I would be happy to pay for any of Planet V's services as part of business if it made sense, was appealing, etc, and 20m fee for 0.0% broker fee for life time is pretty damn good deal I have to say, so yeah, it's cool.

But I would not donate a single penny for the cause or support them out of principle, or to save the high sec trade or whatever. You see the difference there. If the OP was a straight up offer for deals & business I would've been giving thumps up all the way.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Jarr Kaleb
#69 - 2017-03-16 10:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
Toobo wrote:
I just don't see any moral high ground in doing this though. And that's what I generally do not like. It's not much different from CODE. doing their RP thing as the 'saviour of high sec', just rephrased as saviour of the free trade.
What? CODE is the biggest high-sec extortion and griefing project in New Eden... Actually it's PH which is acting more like CODE extorting iskies from hub owners and traders while spamming everywhere "no trade is the free trade".

As far as I know, no one who supports PVT (including the owner) is forcing his\her views about markets onto others and\or is flying around New Eden force-selling permits like CODE does. And you don't need to follow some sh_tty "The New Perimeter Code of Conductâ„¢" to use Planet V trade hub or any other trade hub you like.

Straight
William Ormono
Reason Will Prevail
#70 - 2017-03-17 19:23:12 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
With ingame perspective, I believe we see the beginning of the sovereignty war about empire space which was forced on us by CCP introducing citadels. Difficult to stay neutral unless you strictly use NPC stations only. Hence pick your side in this war.


A HS sovereignty war would be pretty amazing IMO. Hopefully there is enough space for all levels of fighting to break out - with large alliances fighting for regional control of highly populated regions (The Forge, The Domain, etc.) and smaller corps/alliances battling for system control of quieter backwater type systems. Sounds like CONTENT to me!
Pindi buoy
Gud Fites in Local
#71 - 2017-03-17 20:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pindi buoy
Love Turtle wrote:
There are a lot of words being wasted on accusations and recriminations and obfuscation here.

This situation is really quite simple:

Planet V is offering and paying a large price to defend the freedom of trade, starting in Jita, but presumably throughout all of New Eden, in order to serve the interests of the entire Eve community, even in the face of seemingly overwhelming aggression.

Pandemic Horde has sworn to wardec all offshore market hubs, except for those who pay them enormous and ever increasing "protection" fees. They are attempting to monopolize trade in order to reap ill-gotten monopoly profits at the expense of the entire Eve community.

None of this is inferred. It is the avowed and evidenced intent of both sides. No discussion or study required.

This is pretty much as clear a war between good and evil as you can find. I know Eve is just a game, and everyone has the right to use it as an outlet for their repressed childhood fears and anxieties, but I choose to use it as a way to express the person I want to be.

With my dying breath, I will stand with Moac Tor and Planet V Offshore Trading to do what is right, against all odds, at least once in my life.

Moac, keep up the good work and fly with the sword of the righteous. Let us know what we can do to help



Nopes, it's about 300b Karin and freinds were making in the past, it's really just about that, so let's not insult everyone's intelligence here.

They drove people out and monopolized, were willing to pay Horde to drive remaining people out as well. Deal broke down and Karin cheaped out and hired mercs who had zero experience dealing with nullsec entities and were promptly routed.

At the end of the day, from business point of view, Karin and freinds cannot reliably guarantee us the safety. Our assets get stuck for days every now and then or we need to move them from one place to another and re-set all the orders and do all this over and over. It was fine the first time and the second time, but now it's what, 15th time? I lost track.

But, if you can save us the hassle, and defend the structures, you'll have my business again, why not. I dont hate you guys, I dont have anything against you, it's just business.

When everything's said and done, I dont really care which hub Im making money at, as long as I'm making good money reliably and without the extra drama.
Pindi buoy
Gud Fites in Local
#72 - 2017-03-17 21:07:59 UTC
Cor'El Dahken wrote:
Allsales Final wrote:
Cor'El Dahken wrote:
If you think even a corp the size of horde can monopolize all the items in a market the size of Jita I think you should run your numbers again.

What? "...monopolize all the items..." lol

Do you really not understand this?

Wow


you seem to think that someone paying less fees than you will push you out of business?

I just stated that if your problem is Horde paying 0% and everyone else paying 2% I highly doubt it will affect your trading operations much.


So, wait, are you saying I have to pay you guys fees to get 0%, but alternatively, I can place an alt in Horde for free and get 0% in addition to seeding their nullsec markets?




Jarr Kaleb
#73 - 2017-03-18 01:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
Pindi buoy wrote:
Our assets get stuck for days every now and then or we need to move them from one place to another and re-set all the orders and do all this over and over. It was fine the first time and the second time, but now it's what, 15th time? I lost track.
Back then Karin was offering free hauling service with collateral to traders. It's not like traders were left alone with their assets.

I kind of understand that re-listing orders every two weeks may be somewhat annoying to some people but moving assets with no risk at all from tether to tether or using free courier service shouldn't sound like a bad option, right?

___

Honestly, in comparison to horde, no matter how you feel about Karin and his plans, the latter at least knew what to do while PH seems to just fly around, pretending to have fun. Horde don't_ even_ trying_ to generate traffic to any of their hubs.

It's just business, you're right... but, I also don't need long talks about safety and reliability while sh_t still sells faster and better in Jita. I want to see that the owner is caring about his trade hub and traders... or at least trying.

ps. Will Pandemic Horde offer to traders free hauling service if something goes wrong? Doubt so...
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#74 - 2017-03-18 19:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Greetings all,

Thank you to the many of you who continue to support our efforts to maintain free trade across New Eden, and to fight the current extortion tactics employed by Pandemic Horde and others.

I have a couple of updates to the Planet V Trade operation. First of which you may have noticed already; our market hubs have changed their name slightly. All of our market hubs are now named 'Planet V Trade'. This is due to a new update released by CCP in which they no longer allow unicode symbols for newly anchored structures. And so, going forward we will be using the name 'Planet V Trade'.

Additionally, we had been receiving requests for a Planet V Trade market hub in Ashab. The requests were from traders who were having high broker fees forced upon them by Mercenary Coalition who have been extorting market hub owners in the region surrounding Amarr. As a result we have now expanded our market operation to cover Amarr, and we currently have an online market hub located in Ashab.

Another piece of good news; we have discovered a method to easily anchor a market in any system with it being almost impossible for it to be wardeced within the first 15 minutes necessary to prevent it coming online. As a result, we now have a Planet V Trade hub in Perimeter, and should be able to continue to keep a presence there going forward.

Finally, for a limited period we will be offering 0% public broker fees in order to encourage traders to try our market hubs. There is still much work to do on increasing the volume of trade necessary to prevent Pandemic Horde backed markets maintaining a meaningful presence, and so we hope that by taking this step it will help with that. Anyone who has donated in order to receive the 0% broker fee will maintain that rate even when our public broker fee increases back to 0.1%. Although if you wish to have your donation returned please send me a mail and I will do so.

We hope you will continue to support us in the war to maintain free markets and prevent extortion by trading with Planet V Trade.
Jarr Kaleb
#75 - 2017-03-19 13:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
Ethan02 wrote:
Pouring a bit of oil into the fire... Roll Currently it seems IChooseYou has the largest market share and growing:

https://www.adam4eve.eu/market_hubs.php
https://www.adam4eve.eu/location.php?id=1023164547009
Hello, if I'm not mistaken you're the owner of Adam4eve website.

Can you please explain what is going on with statistics of some of player owned trade hubs?

Please, see this screenshot, pay attention to buy orders\buy volume highlighted red. I checked statistics today with ~20min or so interval, why is there such a huge difference?

If it's a bug why all the player owned hubs weren't affected? Straight

___

And here are larger screenshots -
http://i.imgur.com/7Py4GB3.jpg before
http://i.imgur.com/tb17f2j.jpg after
Ethan02
Succurit Research and Development
#76 - 2017-03-20 05:12:26 UTC
Responded in the Adam4EVE feedback thread since it would be off-topic for this one.
Jarr Kaleb
#77 - 2017-03-24 17:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
Q. WHY FREE TRADE IS BAD?
A. Free trading allows the ability for margin scamming to be free.


Roll

An article posted on imperium.news by Jeronica (PL\EVE-Mogul). Might be interesting to read.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#78 - 2017-04-08 00:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Greetings all, I am here to bring you all another update from New Eden's biggest free trade market operation; Planet V Trade. We have been busy fighting the war against the extortionists, and have now bought free trade to Perimeter, Ashab, and Hek; with many more locations still to come.

As traders at our hubs are aware now, we have managed to have an almost uninterrupted service at all of our locations, with market hubs being replaced within hours of the old hub deactivating. We have discovered methods which allow us to reliably place market hubs once every fortnight, which means less hassle for our traders having to move orders.

This is in contrast to some of the less reputable hubs that have been appearing which are using a method which involves de-anchoring an active market hub. For any trader unfortunate enough to inadvertently use one of these hubs, it means that all your assets and orders get instantly tied up in asset safety with no warning.

Planet V Trade aims to offer a reliable, secure, and convenient service to all traders of New Eden. To make things even more convenient I can now officially announce that we will be offering a free hauling service to Planet V market hubs in Perimeter and Ashab. Simply create a public courier contract with collateral up to 20 billion ISK, and a volume of no more than 500,000 m3, and one of our haulers will transport it for you within 24 hours. Just ensure that the destination is one of the official Planet V Trade market hubs listed in the 'Planet V Trade' channel, and that the pickup location is another Citadel or Engineering Complex in the same system.

The war against the extortionists is still far from over, and in addition to this they now have backers who are paying them to destroy all competitor market hubs in the false belief that the extortionists will allow them to charge the sky high broker fees which they desire unchallenged. We have been keeping a careful watch on those who are funding the extortionists, and we now have some powerful allies who have seen the value in our cause, and are willing to take appropriate action to prevent the destruction of any further trade hubs.

This war to protect free trade in high sec is a war which will become part of Eve history. If the average capsuleer stands idle as the extortionists take control, then it will become impossible to shake their grip. We are now in a moment in which the balance can swing either way. It is now more important than ever that anyone who has an interest in preventing the extortion of high sec takes action now and supports free trade.
Jarr Kaleb
#79 - 2017-04-08 14:11:47 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Planet V Trade aims to offer a reliable, secure, and convenient service to all traders of New Eden. To make things even more convenient I can now officially announce that we will be offering a free hauling service to Planet V market hubs in Perimeter and Ashab. Simply create a public courier contract with collateral up to 20 billion ISK, and a volume of no more than 500,000 m3, and one of our haulers will transport it for you within 24 hours. Just ensure that the destination is one of the official Planet V Trade market hubs listed in the 'Planet V Trade' channel, and that the pickup location is another Citadel or Engineering Complex in the same system.


But, if you haul your stuff yourself (especially between regions) this information may be useful.
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2017-04-08 15:50:31 UTC
Jarr Kaleb wrote:


But, if you haul your stuff yourself (especially between regions) this information may be useful.


Moac Tor wrote:
pickup location is another Citadel or Engineering Complex in the same system.