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HY-2 and HY-1 offer SAME EFFECT on a freighter

Author
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#21 - 2012-01-22 18:34:21 UTC
If the race occured over multiple jumps then it's not a benchmark and a .04 variable in au won't matter. Align times will play far more in to the total time of a 6 jump race. So if one person has Capital 5 and the other has base freighter capital 1 the Capital 5 wins.

Ioci has 5's in all nav skills, capital 5 and none of my other chars keep up to her no matter what they fly. I've seen me multi jump clients where Ioci was in a Geddon and Skydell was in a Drake and Ioci gets there first.

None of it helps much in explaining optical displacements due to desync but I won't go on emorant and assume it's killing EVE. I doubt it is.
Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#22 - 2012-01-22 18:43:11 UTC
Oh only now i got it, sorry.

Yeah if your ship info shows faster speed you two shoulnd't be inside the same warp bubble.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#23 - 2012-01-22 18:45:18 UTC
Still, though, those implants aren't really meant to be used in freighters i reckon... I asure you that they affect ships such as the covops hehe

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Rixiu
PonyTek
#24 - 2012-01-22 19:09:40 UTC
What does it say in the fitting window? Maybe they don't affect "capital ships", not all implants do afaik...
Ulair Memmet
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-01-22 19:38:53 UTC
File a bug report
Othran
Route One
#26 - 2012-01-22 19:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Rixiu wrote:
What does it say in the fitting window? Maybe they don't affect "capital ships", not all implants do afaik...


They affect jump freighters when they're slowboating in Empire.

I think its probably just that there isn't enough difference between 0.83 and 0.86AU to move them to a different "warp grid" over 90 AU.

You'd probably need one of the big systems to see that for sure - one of the 200AU+ systems. Perhaps in the last 40-50AU you'd leave the "warp grid" the other freighter was on.

I dunno what else to call it really other than warp grid - its the same mechanism that means if a load of people in a fleet warp make a bookmark within a couple of seconds of each other then it'll be exactly the same bookmark for all of them.
Siigari Kitawa
Weave
#27 - 2012-01-22 20:11:44 UTC
Interestingly enough on my Fitting screen my warp speed shows as 0.9 AU/s.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX

Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#28 - 2012-01-22 20:16:37 UTC
Interesting

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

Othran
Route One
#29 - 2012-01-22 20:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Interestingly enough on my Fitting screen my warp speed shows as 0.9 AU/s.


It would. Fitting only has one decimal place.

This is nothing to do with rounding.

OP needs to use moveme on sisi to go to somewhere like X-7OMU which has a 270AU (IIRC) warp gate to gate. If you come out of that warp at the same time as other pilot then report it.

Edit - for a 270 AU warp you should come out 8.3 AU apart; for a 90AU warp it'd be 2.7AU but 2.7AU is (for sure) inside the same "warp grid".
Siigari Kitawa
Weave
#30 - 2012-01-22 20:46:50 UTC
Okay, we'll give this a test.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX

Katy Deka
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-02-01 15:10:21 UTC
Siigari and I have not had a chance to test on sisi over a really long warp yet. However, something is wrong whether it's a display error, rounding problem, or implants just not working.

I recently upgraded from the HY-2 to the HY-2.5 and when I hover the mouse over my speed indicator during warp, it still says I am only doing 0.80 au sec. The fitting window says 0.9 au and show info tab says 0.89 au.

Link: Screenshot of show info tab and actual speed
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-02-01 15:16:03 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Or.. ya know?
Just maybe?

They don't work?


Don't be stupid. It wouldn't be in the game if it didn't worked.
This is the quote of the day.

This is either a very skillful troll or a very naive soul.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

stoicfaux
#33 - 2012-02-01 15:47:38 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
I am in an Anshar, racing my friend in a Nomad. We have been going for about 20 jumps now and the Nomad (finally) caught up to me. I had a 1 minute head start. I have an HY-2 plugged in and he has an HY-1. We both entered warp at the same time, but we remained in the same bubble as each other for the duration of the 90 AU warp. This was a non-fleet/squad warp. We both warped individually.

So, on ship info it shows HY-1 gives 0.83 AU/s warp speed, and HY-2 gives 0.86 AU/s warp speed. Why didn't I go ahead of him?


Several factors:
* align time: Anshar 25.9s versus Nomad's 22.6s assuming skills at V.
* warp speed increases exponentially until you hit your max warp speed. So you're both hitting your max warp speed at the same time.
* long acceleration and deceleration times which cuts into your .03 speed advantage.
* server has a 1 second "heartbeat", meaning client input is gathered and sent to the server every second.
* random lag, especially in how long it takes to jump and then load a new system
* human reaction time

End result is that your .03 speed advantage over 60 seconds at max warp speed produces a 1.8 second time advantage which isn't significant enough to overcome the other factors.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Serene Repose
#34 - 2012-02-01 16:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Pssst...Lady Spank thinks we should all sit quietly with our hands folded in our laps.

I vote check the training first. Any significant problem with the coding would affect both the same. So...check the training. Make that equal, and run the test again. You'll probably get the same result...unless you get a different one!
(You might consider reading War and Peace instead.)

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Katy Deka
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-02-01 18:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Katy Deka
stoicfaux wrote:
So you're both hitting your max warp speed at the same time.

We understand all of your previous criteria. However, we are still trying to determine exactly what our max speed is as we have three different in-game graphics telling us three different numbers. If it rounds down, in all cases, two decimal points, then some of these higher-end implants are not worth the price to someone with max skills.

I have max. navigation and max. related ship skills for the two ships in question and I just upgraded from 5% to 6% warp speed hardwirings yet my max speed, as shown by hovering over the HUD area, shows the same number whether I have a 4%, 5%, or 6% hardwiring plugged in. However, in show info for the ship and on the fitting screen, I show a much higher warp speed.

For example, as stated in my previous message, with 6% warp speed hardwiring and max. skills I show a max warp speed of 0.9 au on the fitting screen, 0.89 in the show info tab when I right click on the ship, but only 0.80 au when I hover over the "speedometer" on the HUD during a long warp. Based on actual mathematical calculations, which also matches EFT, my actual warp speed *should* be 0.885 au. Based on the math, I understand how the show info tab and in-game fitting tab is rounding to the numbers they show. However, my issue is with the HUD telling me .80 max. au. If the game is truly rounding down all the way from 0.89 to 0.80 - CCP needs to fix this or give me my money back on all these exotic hardwirings that don't work as advertised.

What I am hoping is going on is a simple display error and I that I am actually going faster than what the HUD says. Because, over a long haul, say 40 high-sec jumps, a difference of 0.09 au can make a big difference. When pushing freight, I am not a casual AFK freighter pilot, I want to get the jobs done as fast as possible that is why I invested my skills and isk to maximize my speed and agility with these ships. I certainly don't mind the isk investment if they are working correctly.

In other events, I recently won a freighter race, with my alt in question, sponsored by SOMER.Blink, so maybe they are working as intended. Siigari, we really need to get on SISI sometime to do some real testing.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#36 - 2012-02-01 18:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Does your fiting screen shows 0.86au/sec and on his shows 0.83au/sec?!

If not, check that. If yes, then he clicks faster than you.


Actually I was doing show info on the ship in space for better accuracy. Mine shows 0.86 and his showed 0.83. Also, there are a lot of people not really listening to my issue in this thread. The issue isn't about align time, it's about the fact that I have a faster warp speed implant than he does and we were both in warp at the same speed. Our speed indicators at the bottom of our screen both indicated 0.8 AU/s. Also there is no skill that increases your warp velocity.

So what's the deal CCP? Are we rounding? Or are the server ticks locking our warps into place? Or both?


I am pretty sure show info does not take into account the skills of the pilot. even looking at the data in the ship fitting window is not accurate unless you are undocked in space. you would have to both check you warp speed in the fitting window(I believe if you hover over it it shows to actual speed rather than the rounded number, at least it used to) while in space to be sure that you are reading your actual warp speed, in that ship, with all skills and implants considered.

That being said 0.03 au/sec will only really make a difference in very large systems. In small systems it will take way more than 20 jumps to gain/lose any time as most of your time is taken up in alignment and getting into warp rather than your max warp speed.

with freighters I would expect that over a 20 jump race skills increasing align time and ship agility would have a far greater impact than slight differences in warp speed.
Katy Deka
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-02-01 19:13:28 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
I am pretty sure show info does not take into account the skills of the pilot.

It does, but you have to be in space and have selected show info by right clicking on your ship in space. See my screenshot, it says 0.89 but the HUD says only 0.80 au. I am hoping show info is legit and the actual speed I am doing and not 0.80 as it says 0.80 in the HUD no matter which hardwirings I plug in.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#38 - 2012-02-01 19:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Katy Deka wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
I am pretty sure show info does not take into account the skills of the pilot.

It does, but you have to be in space and have selected show info by right clicking on your ship in space. See my screenshot, it says 0.89 but the HUD says only 0.80 au. I am hoping show info is legit and the actual speed I am doing and not 0.80 as it says 0.80 in the HUD no matter which hardwirings I plug in.



yeah I can see that, sorry for the miss interpretation.

did you both have equal nav skills including ship agility and align times? Of course this could be ruled out if you both aligned first so you were doing max speed and aligned when you hit the warp to. I only ask because you said over 20 jumps there was no difference. ship agility, align times, etc would havbe a greater affect over 20 jumps than warp speed.

this may just be a case of 0.89 and 0.86 just not being enough of a difference to affect travel time in the systems you tested.
Katy Deka
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-02-01 20:11:39 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
did you both have equal nav skills including ship agility and align times? Of course this could be ruled out if you both aligned first so you were doing max speed and aligned when you hit the warp to.

Well, as we've said since the beginning, our race wasn't a true race.. it was impromptu as he started his trip a minute before me me and we were like "I wonder if I can catch up to you" which I did and then passed him ultimately before we met the destination.

We have the same skills but fly different ships so I align slightly faster to begin with. I know this can make a lot of difference it was just amazing at how fast I caught up to him since he, supposedly, warped faster than me at the time.

My only question is, how fast am I actually warping if three different interfaces are giving me three different speeds. Show info and the fitting screen are both close enough that I can accept either and will just assume 0.89 as my manual math comes to 0.885. However, the HUD still has me bewildered as it only reads 0.80. I am hoping the HUD is just bugged.
Siigari Kitawa
Weave
#40 - 2012-02-01 20:21:21 UTC
What frustrates me is if one ship warps at 0.8 and the other warps at 0.85, the two ships are locked together in warp. Is that because the coding is so lazy that two ships with slightly similar warp velocities are "locked" in warp together because it's easier for the server to round than it is for the server to actually calculate accurate distance?

Because by the sounds of things there are ZERO benefits having this implant in any system where the warp is shorter than 120 AU.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX

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