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Jump Fatigue Feedback

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#641 - 2017-03-27 06:49:55 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
kaimai wrote:
I would just reduce the jumprange. Get rid of Fatigue and put up a fix reactivation timer.
Fatigue literally steals RL Time.
Everybody hates it: People from small Alliance and from big ones.
Plus no big Cap Fights ever gonna happen again.


"Everybody hates it"

IMO Jump fatigue was one of the best things CCP did for the game. It needs to be more restrictive, if anything.

While I totally disagree with you I am curious as to why you think it needs to b more restrictive and how you would go about it.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#642 - 2017-03-27 22:05:39 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
kaimai wrote:
I would just reduce the jumprange. Get rid of Fatigue and put up a fix reactivation timer.
Fatigue literally steals RL Time.
Everybody hates it: People from small Alliance and from big ones.
Plus no big Cap Fights ever gonna happen again.


"Everybody hates it"

IMO Jump fatigue was one of the best things CCP did for the game. It needs to be more restrictive, if anything.

While I totally disagree with you I am curious as to why you think it needs to b more restrictive and how you would go about it.



New Eden is supposed to feel massive, to the point it's overwhelming. Before jump fatigue you could move entire cap fleets across the entire universe in a day. That's not right. No jump fatigue also let people treat caps like solo ships with your one cyno alt. That's also not right. Caps are supposed to require massive subcap support fleets 24/7, and are supposed to be very dangerous and very risky to fly, given how big/powerful they can be. They shouldn't be easy to move.

I'd like jump fatigue to go back to how it was when it first was implemented. Caps can use gates now, so get your subcap fleet together and use gates. That would create content, which is the goal, isn't it?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#643 - 2017-03-28 01:49:34 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
kaimai wrote:
I would just reduce the jumprange. Get rid of Fatigue and put up a fix reactivation timer.
Fatigue literally steals RL Time.
Everybody hates it: People from small Alliance and from big ones.
Plus no big Cap Fights ever gonna happen again.


"Everybody hates it"

IMO Jump fatigue was one of the best things CCP did for the game. It needs to be more restrictive, if anything.

While I totally disagree with you I am curious as to why you think it needs to b more restrictive and how you would go about it.



New Eden is supposed to feel massive, to the point it's overwhelming. Before jump fatigue you could move entire cap fleets across the entire universe in a day. That's not right. No jump fatigue also let people treat caps like solo ships with your one cyno alt. That's also not right. Caps are supposed to require massive subcap support fleets 24/7, and are supposed to be very dangerous and very risky to fly, given how big/powerful they can be. They shouldn't be easy to move.

I'd like jump fatigue to go back to how it was when it first was implemented. Caps can use gates now, so get your subcap fleet together and use gates. That would create content, which is the goal, isn't it?

Nice little history lesson but didn't answer either my questions.

"Go back to what it was when it was when it was first implemented?" Please explain, as far as I am aware it hasn't changed. Unless you are referring to the recent range increase, which has nothing to do with fatigue aside from increasing the time you wait before you can jump again - The fatigue mechanics have not changed..


I'm not aware of any mainstream groups (except maybe WH dwellers doing escalations) who use capitals exclusively, they all have subcap support in one form or another.

Gating capitals, is done a lot but when you're going 10 or 12 jumps to get to a fight - Gating is just not viable, unless one or two gates puts you in range. Which by BTW is done often.

I think maybe you should get out of that WH for a few months and try using capitals in today's meta.

NB; The group my main is in recently deployed across two regions (7 jumps - with 2 gate jumps on top) - Thanks to fatigue (and not being able to play for 10 or 12 hours a day) it took me 5 days to get there with a dread and another 3 to move my carrier.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#644 - 2017-03-28 02:48:26 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Nice little history lesson but didn't answer either my questions.

"Go back to what it was when it was when it was first implemented?" Please explain, as far as I am aware it hasn't changed. Unless you are referring to the recent range increase, which has nothing to do with fatigue aside from increasing the time you wait before you can jump again - The fatigue mechanics have not changed..


I'm not aware of any mainstream groups (except maybe WH dwellers doing escalations) who use capitals exclusively, they all have subcap support in one form or another.

Gating capitals, is done a lot but when you're going 10 or 12 jumps to get to a fight - Gating is just not viable, unless one or two gates puts you in range. Which by BTW is done often.

I think maybe you should get out of that WH for a few months and try using capitals in today's meta.

NB; The group my main is in recently deployed across two regions (7 jumps - with 2 gate jumps on top) - Thanks to fatigue (and not being able to play for 10 or 12 hours a day) it took me 5 days to get there with a dread and another 3 to move my carrier.


I did answer the question. Going 10-12 jumps with a cap to get to a fight shouldn't happen. That was part of my point. Caps are supposed to be large, hard to move ships. If you don't know anyone who uses caps exclusively, you've never lived in null, and please give me the name of a single group that actually lets people jump caps through gates in sov null ATM
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#645 - 2017-03-28 12:36:16 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Nice little history lesson but didn't answer either my questions.

"Go back to what it was when it was when it was first implemented?" Please explain, as far as I am aware it hasn't changed. Unless you are referring to the recent range increase, which has nothing to do with fatigue aside from increasing the time you wait before you can jump again - The fatigue mechanics have not changed..


I'm not aware of any mainstream groups (except maybe WH dwellers doing escalations) who use capitals exclusively, they all have subcap support in one form or another.

Gating capitals, is done a lot but when you're going 10 or 12 jumps to get to a fight - Gating is just not viable, unless one or two gates puts you in range. Which by BTW is done often.

I think maybe you should get out of that WH for a few months and try using capitals in today's meta.

NB; The group my main is in recently deployed across two regions (7 jumps - with 2 gate jumps on top) - Thanks to fatigue (and not being able to play for 10 or 12 hours a day) it took me 5 days to get there with a dread and another 3 to move my carrier.


I did answer the question. Going 10-12 jumps with a cap to get to a fight shouldn't happen. That was part of my point. Caps are supposed to be large, hard to move ships. If you don't know anyone who uses caps exclusively, you've never lived in null, and please give me the name of a single group that actually lets people jump caps through gates in sov null ATM

No you didn't, all you said was "fatigue should be worse" that is not answering anything and simply shows you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

My wording must have confused you. But to even think a capital ship could use its jump drive 12 times to get to a fight (unless it is 2 weeks in the future) also shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
I did say GATE JUMPS but you seem to have deliberately misunderstood the context.

Moving a capital ship any more than 1 jump using cynos requires you giving up playing eve for the day (unless you are a no lifer). With over 1 hour between jumps, you're not going anywhere fast. Unless of course you don't want to use the ship for a week and stack fatigue, even then it will take you hours to get to your destination as each time you jump your reactivation timer is longer.

I've lived in nul on and off since 2007. (currently a resident of Curse)
Any group worth belonging to would never consider using caps in a fleet fight without subcap support in today's meta. Not much point dropping caps if your enemy can just warp off is there? That's what your support fleet (subcaps) are for, keep the enemy on grid.

You either genuinely have no idea what you are talking about or are a really bad troll.


Consider this;
Devs decide moving around in WH's is too easy and you will get 1hr 45 mins "wait time" every time you move through one - Now put that scenario on to capitals ships using jump drives or subcaps using a jump bridge or being bridged by a titan.
What you have, is today's fatigue mechanics.

As I said, leave your safe little wh and try using the ships and mechanics you are talking about OR please just stop posting your meaningless drivel.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#646 - 2017-03-28 22:12:22 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
No you didn't, all you said was "fatigue should be worse" that is not answering anything and simply shows you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

My wording must have confused you. But to even think a capital ship could use its jump drive 12 times to get to a fight (unless it is 2 weeks in the future) also shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
I did say GATE JUMPS but you seem to have deliberately misunderstood the context.

Moving a capital ship any more than 1 jump using cynos requires you giving up playing eve for the day (unless you are a no lifer). With over 1 hour between jumps, you're not going anywhere fast. Unless of course you don't want to use the ship for a week and stack fatigue, even then it will take you hours to get to your destination as each time you jump your reactivation timer is longer.

I've lived in nul on and off since 2007. (currently a resident of Curse)
Any group worth belonging to would never consider using caps in a fleet fight without subcap support in today's meta. Not much point dropping caps if your enemy can just warp off is there? That's what your support fleet (subcaps) are for, keep the enemy on grid.

You either genuinely have no idea what you are talking about or are a really bad troll.


Consider this;
Devs decide moving around in WH's is too easy and you will get 1hr 45 mins "wait time" every time you move through one - Now put that scenario on to capitals ships using jump drives or subcaps using a jump bridge or being bridged by a titan.
What you have, is today's fatigue mechanics.

As I said, leave your safe little wh and try using the ships and mechanics you are talking about OR please just stop posting your meaningless drivel.


Believe it or not (and this is hard), not everyone agrees with you. I love jump fatigue. It's one of the best things that happened to the game.

You've lived in null for years and never saw that solo person using a carrier to move cargo? Never saw a carrier ratting? Be serious please. WHs are random. Jumping is not. Apples and Oranges.

You don't give up a playing day when using cynos. You give up a playing day of using a cap and jumping. That's literally the point of why it's a good thing. You shouldn't be able to go anywhere fast in a capital ship. That was literally my point.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#647 - 2017-03-29 03:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
No you didn't, all you said was "fatigue should be worse" that is not answering anything and simply shows you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

My wording must have confused you. But to even think a capital ship could use its jump drive 12 times to get to a fight (unless it is 2 weeks in the future) also shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
I did say GATE JUMPS but you seem to have deliberately misunderstood the context.

Moving a capital ship any more than 1 jump using cynos requires you giving up playing eve for the day (unless you are a no lifer). With over 1 hour between jumps, you're not going anywhere fast. Unless of course you don't want to use the ship for a week and stack fatigue, even then it will take you hours to get to your destination as each time you jump your reactivation timer is longer.

I've lived in nul on and off since 2007. (currently a resident of Curse)
Any group worth belonging to would never consider using caps in a fleet fight without subcap support in today's meta. Not much point dropping caps if your enemy can just warp off is there? That's what your support fleet (subcaps) are for, keep the enemy on grid.

You either genuinely have no idea what you are talking about or are a really bad troll.


Consider this;
Devs decide moving around in WH's is too easy and you will get 1hr 45 mins "wait time" every time you move through one - Now put that scenario on to capitals ships using jump drives or subcaps using a jump bridge or being bridged by a titan.
What you have, is today's fatigue mechanics.

As I said, leave your safe little wh and try using the ships and mechanics you are talking about OR please just stop posting your meaningless drivel.


Believe it or not (and this is hard), not everyone agrees with you. I love jump fatigue. It's one of the best things that happened to the game.

You've lived in null for years and never saw that solo person using a carrier to move cargo? Never saw a carrier ratting? Be serious please. WHs are random. Jumping is not. Apples and Oranges.

You don't give up a playing day when using cynos. You give up a playing day of using a cap and jumping. That's literally the point of why it's a good thing. You shouldn't be able to go anywhere fast in a capital ship. That was literally my point.

No it wasn't, you started out saying fatigue needed to be increased (go read your own posts).
Really, what does a ratting carrier have to do with jump fatigue and if a person is happy to haul around 10k m3 of cargo in a carrier more power to them.

The more you post the less you show you know about the subject. Tying to use ratting carriers or the odd person who uses a ship that is totally not suited to shifting cargo as your reason for jump fatigue needing a buff, I just fell off my chair laughing..

WH's are not as random as you might think, the WH highway is awesome for moving subcaps vast distances quickly - Do you even play the game?

"That was literally my point" - Your point is - You don't have one.

Please stop now, you already look foolish don't extend it to stupid.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#648 - 2017-03-29 14:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Well, I think his point is clear in that he suggests something along the lines of jump drive on a combat ship having to be an emergency tool rather than something you can use more freely.

The better question is why.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#649 - 2017-03-29 22:12:51 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
stuff


...suggesting that it should be harder for caps to move around is the same thing as saying jump fatigue needs to be increased.

I apologize I disagree with you. Don't start a thread on a public forum if all you want is people to back up your opinion. Caps should be rare, not something to whelp when ratting. The universe should be massive. Not something you can get across in a day with cynos. Obviously you disagree. There's nothing wrong with that. Personally I think jump fatigue is one of the best decisions made for this game in a while, and wish it was harsher. We can agree to disagree on that, but that is my opinion.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#650 - 2017-03-30 00:07:44 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Well, I think his point is clear in that he suggests something along the lines of jump drive on a combat ship having to be an emergency tool rather than something you can use more freely.

The better question is why.

So no capital fights is the plan?

Like Sonya I think you need to experience what it is like to use capitals before commenting.


Quote:
Sonya Corvinus

..suggesting that it should be harder for caps to move around is the same thing as saying jump fatigue needs to be increased.

I apologize I disagree with you. Don't start a thread on a public forum if all you want is people to back up your opinion. Caps should be rare, not something to whelp when ratting. The universe should be massive. Not something you can get across in a day with cynos. Obviously you disagree. There's nothing wrong with that. Personally I think jump fatigue is one of the best decisions made for this game in a while, and wish it was harsher. We can agree to disagree on that, but that is my opinion.

You don't seem to understand just how hard it is to move caps around now.

It is a large commitment when it comes to moving caps and if further restrictions were implemented there would simply be less capitals used, which means TQ becomes even more stagnant.
You don't go and deploy to an area where the group who lives there has lots of capitals if you can't take your capitals. So by increasing restrictions on moving them you create a nice stagnant map.

I didn't start this thread it was started by a Dev some 8 months ago.

And I really don't get what ratting carriers has to do with jump fatigue. Ratting carriers rarely ever leave the system they rat in.
Also "whelping" a ratting carrier? Do you know what "whelp" means? Nobody "whelps" ratting carriers or any ratting ship as far as I am aware, it would pretty much defeat the purpose of them to whelp them.

Yes jump fatigue "was" necessary at the time it was implemented but over time it has become a limiting factor as to when and how those who have a life outside Eve play the game. One of the reasons they capped stacked fatigue at 6 days is so the weekend warrior can sort of use capitals.

There is a lot Devs could do to address stacking fatigue while still being able to stop people moving vast distances quickly - It really is an unnecessary component of the fatigue mechanics but Devs do seem to like punishing players for wanting to play the game instead of encouraging them.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#651 - 2017-03-30 00:36:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Sgt Ocker wrote:
You don't seem to understand just how hard it is to move caps around now.

It is a large commitment when it comes to moving caps and if further restrictions were implemented there would simply be less capitals used, which means TQ becomes even more stagnant.
You don't go and deploy to an area where the group who lives there has lots of capitals if you can't take your capitals. So by increasing restrictions on moving them you create a nice stagnant map.

I didn't start this thread it was started by a Dev some 8 months ago.

And I really don't get what ratting carriers has to do with jump fatigue. Ratting carriers rarely ever leave the system they rat in.
Also "whelping" a ratting carrier? Do you know what "whelp" means? Nobody "whelps" ratting carriers or any ratting ship as far as I am aware, it would pretty much defeat the purpose of them to whelp them.

Yes jump fatigue "was" necessary at the time it was implemented but over time it has become a limiting factor as to when and how those who have a life outside Eve play the game. One of the reasons they capped stacked fatigue at 6 days is so the weekend warrior can sort of use capitals.

There is a lot Devs could do to address stacking fatigue while still being able to stop people moving vast distances quickly - It really is an unnecessary component of the fatigue mechanics but Devs do seem to like punishing players for wanting to play the game instead of encouraging them.


I do. My oldest character started in 2012, and I've lived outside of HS since a month in. I'm not unfamiliar with caps. Again. I think it's a good thing that it's hard to move caps around.

How many times do I have to say that? And nobody whelps ratting carriers? Have you even been in null?

Death to all caps. The game is infinitely better when they are rare, and take thought before they are used.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#652 - 2017-03-30 06:22:19 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So no capital fights is the plan?

Like Sonya I think you need to experience what it is like to use capitals before commenting.

I'm not sure why you think that it was my personal opinion. Or a point of view that reflects my thoughts in any way.

You said that Sonya's ideas were unclear to you, I disagreed in that it's bloody obvious what Sonya suggests.

Although obviously, restricting cap movement even more won't do anything about ratting caps by itself. As for making them more rare, well, even Titans aren't exactly rare these days, and that was the case when they were little more than jump bridges. I'm not sure what one can expect to do to regular caps in order to make them rare.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#653 - 2017-03-30 21:41:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So no capital fights is the plan?

Like Sonya I think you need to experience what it is like to use capitals before commenting.

I'm not sure why you think that it was my personal opinion. Or a point of view that reflects my thoughts in any way.

You said that Sonya's ideas were unclear to you, I disagreed in that it's bloody obvious what Sonya suggests.

Although obviously, restricting cap movement even more won't do anything about ratting caps by itself. As for making them more rare, well, even Titans aren't exactly rare these days, and that was the case when they were little more than jump bridges. I'm not sure what one can expect to do to regular caps in order to make them rare.
Why would you want to make them rare?
They are an integral part of Eve game play, sure titans and supers may be a little common considering what they can do but again they aren't that hard to kill these days even with subcaps.

Oh btw, I don't think your explanation is what Sonya had in mind at all. As I said use the ships you are commenting on before making assumptions.


Sonya Corvinus
Did you ever consider, one of the reasons supers and capitals in general are so common is because of jump fatigue?
Prior to jump fatigue capitals were much harder to use than they are now due to mega groups racing all over new eden and killing them, you didn't undock caps without much thought and consideration because BL PL or NC. could be on your doorstep within a short time.
Now when someone uses caps there is a lot of planning and strategy goes into it due to how long it takes to get them anywhere, reduced EHP, etc. Hence there are more of them because they just don't get used enough to kill off stockpiles.

As you seem to think players throw away 2 bil plus isk carriers by whelping them, PLEASE show me one killmail that would go close to proving this. Personally I would never undock a ratting carrier with the intention of letting it die (whelping it) nobody I know would.
I (and many others) have undocked a brick tanked carrier with a cyno (which is absolutely no good for ratting if your plan is to make isk) and warped it to an anom to bait out a far more expensive super or titan and killed it (this does happen a lot more in lowsec than nul). Risking a 2 bil carrier to kill a 20 bil + super or 100 bil + titan, could be called a whelp I suppose. I've never lost one doing it though, thanks to logi.
Whelping a fleet (even capitals) into a far superior fleet can be fun but isn't something you do in ratting carriers...

And I totally agree - Death to all caps - Now all you need to do is get Devs to reduce stacking fatigue so that can begin to happen.. I own quite a few of caps and a titan, I just wish I could use them more than once or twice a month - Losing them in battle would then would be an honor (and a lot of fun)...

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#654 - 2017-03-30 22:44:15 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sonya Corvinus
Did you ever consider, one of the reasons supers and capitals in general are so common is because of jump fatigue?
Prior to jump fatigue capitals were much harder to use than they are now due to mega groups racing all over new eden and killing them, you didn't undock caps without much thought and consideration because BL PL or NC. could be on your doorstep within a short time.
Now when someone uses caps there is a lot of planning and strategy goes into it due to how long it takes to get them anywhere. Hence there are more of them because they just don't get used enough to kill off stockpiles.

As you seem to think players throw away 2 bil plus isk carriers by whelping them, PLEASE show me one killmail that would go close to proving this. Personally I would never undock a ratting carrier with the intention of letting it die (whelping it) nobody I know would.
I (and many others) have undocked a brick tanked carrier with a cyno (which is absolutely no good for ratting if your plan is to make isk) and warped it to an anom to bait out a far more expensive super or titan and killed it. Risking a 2 bil carrier to kill a 20 bil + super or 100 bil + titan, could be called a whelp I suppose. I've never lost one doing it though, thanks to logi.
Whelping a fleet (even capitals) into a far superior fleet can be fun but isn't something you do in ratting carriers...

And I totally agree - Death to all caps - Now all you need to do is get Devs to reduce stacking fatigue so that can begin to happen.. (I own quite a few of caps and a titan, I just wish I could use them more than once or twice a month - Losing them in battle would then would be an honor)


I've lived in null/WHs/LS longer than you've played this game. If you think 2 bil is a lot to whelp, you've never actually lived in null. Jump fatigue is good. It needs to be harsher than it already is. You disagree. You seem fundamentally incapable of understanding people disagree with you (or you're trolling, I can't tell which right now). Caps and Supers are common because null is HS with extra safety anymore. You know what I tell new players? Leave HS immediately and go to null. With massive intel channels it's infinitely safer to earn ISK there than HS.

I look forward to you ignoring me again and assuming your opinion is law.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#655 - 2017-03-30 23:51:04 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sonya Corvinus
Did you ever consider, one of the reasons supers and capitals in general are so common is because of jump fatigue?
Prior to jump fatigue capitals were much harder to use than they are now due to mega groups racing all over new eden and killing them, you didn't undock caps without much thought and consideration because BL PL or NC. could be on your doorstep within a short time.
Now when someone uses caps there is a lot of planning and strategy goes into it due to how long it takes to get them anywhere. Hence there are more of them because they just don't get used enough to kill off stockpiles.

As you seem to think players throw away 2 bil plus isk carriers by whelping them, PLEASE show me one killmail that would go close to proving this. Personally I would never undock a ratting carrier with the intention of letting it die (whelping it) nobody I know would.
I (and many others) have undocked a brick tanked carrier with a cyno (which is absolutely no good for ratting if your plan is to make isk) and warped it to an anom to bait out a far more expensive super or titan and killed it. Risking a 2 bil carrier to kill a 20 bil + super or 100 bil + titan, could be called a whelp I suppose. I've never lost one doing it though, thanks to logi.
Whelping a fleet (even capitals) into a far superior fleet can be fun but isn't something you do in ratting carriers...

And I totally agree - Death to all caps - Now all you need to do is get Devs to reduce stacking fatigue so that can begin to happen.. (I own quite a few of caps and a titan, I just wish I could use them more than once or twice a month - Losing them in battle would then would be an honor)


I've lived in null/WHs/LS longer than you've played this game. If you think 2 bil is a lot to whelp, you've never actually lived in null. Jump fatigue is good. It needs to be harsher than it already is. You disagree. You seem fundamentally incapable of understanding people disagree with you (or you're trolling, I can't tell which right now). Caps and Supers are common because null is HS with extra safety anymore. You know what I tell new players? Leave HS immediately and go to null. With massive intel channels it's infinitely safer to earn ISK there than HS.

I look forward to you ignoring me again and assuming your opinion is law.

Whelping 2 bil is nothing (a day or 2 ratting), I just don't understand how or why you think people whelp rattng carriers. Do you know what a whelp is?

I don't "assume" anything - You're doing that all on your own.
I've tried to be objective and explain my point of view - You on the other hand have not tried to explain yours. Your argument is - Fatigue needs to be harsher, which is not so much an argument or explanation as it is a baseless statement (your right I'm wrong).

Ok, one more time.
As an example;
Group A - 3,000 man sov holding alliance, has a 400 strong capital fleet at their disposal to fight off attackers and defend their sov.

Group B - 3,000 man alliance that wants to go fight Group A (lives 2 regions away), they have roughly the same sized capital fleet as those they want to fight but due to distance and fatigue (the harsher one you think is needed) it is not viable to move their caps due to the time required.

Group B decide after working out the logistics of deploying, it just isn't worth it because of the time required.

Group A keeps their sov, no-one gets fights, good or bad, simply because no-one can reasonably get to them to fight.
Remember - Even just deploying subcaps to fight with requires capital ships, unless each person only takes one ship which wouldn't be much of a deployment would it.,.

By making fatigue harsher you end up making a stagnant nulsec. Those sov holders with decent capital fleets would not have their sov threatened.
Why is it do you think there has not been a big capital fight in so long?

You say you want death to all caps but insist on increasing the one thing that prevents that from happening.

10 years in August - I've been around a while. (you're assuming your're right, again)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#656 - 2017-03-31 00:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Whelping 2 bil is nothing (a day or 2 ratting), I just don't understand how or why you think people whelp rattng carriers. Do you know what a whelp is?

I don't "assume" anything - You're doing that all on your own.
I've tried to be objective and explain my point of view - You on the other hand have not tried to explain yours. Your argument is - Fatigue needs to be harsher, which is not so much an argument or explanation as it is a baseless statement (your right I'm wrong).

Ok, one more time.
As an example;
Group A - 3,000 man sov holding alliance, has a 400 strong capital fleet at their disposal to fight off attackers and defend their sov.

Group B - 3,000 man alliance that wants to go fight Group A (lives 2 regions away), they have roughly the same sized capital fleet as those they want to fight but due to distance and fatigue (the harsher one you think is needed) it is not viable to move their caps due to the time required.

Group B decide after working out the logistics of deploying, it just isn't worth it because of the time required.

Group A keeps their sov, no-one gets fights, good or bad, simply because no-one can reasonably get to them to fight.
Remember - Even just deploying subcaps to fight with requires capital ships, unless each person only takes one ship which wouldn't be much of a deployment would it.,.

By making fatigue harsher you end up making a stagnant nulsec. Those sov holders with decent capital fleets would not have their sov threatened.
Why is it do you think there has not been a big capital fight in so long?

You say you want death to all caps but insist on increasing the one thing that prevents that from happening.

10 years in August - I've been around a while. (you're assuming your're right, again)


Yet again, I disagree with you. Jump fatigue is a good thing, and needs to be increased. We obviously disagree, but you can't seem to get that not everyone agrees with you.

You literally just proved my point. A 400 on 400 cap fight should take a month to plan. It shouldn't be easy. That's the point behind jump fatigue. Your scenarios are exactly why I've been saying what I've been saying. I don't like null to be as trivial as HS like you do.

A more stagnant null is good. Way too many people sit in the safest part of space (sov null) with zero risk. Boredom would drive nullbears out.
Lothros Andastar
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#657 - 2017-04-01 16:02:14 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
A 400 on 400 cap fight should take a month to plan.

Good luck ever getting headline grabbing fights like NOL or HED again.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#658 - 2017-04-01 16:13:01 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
A 400 on 400 cap fight should take a month to plan.

Good luck ever getting headline grabbing fights like NOL or HED again.


Those were some of the more boring fights in the game. Shoot once, go watch TV for 10 minutes before you can shoot again. No thanks.
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#659 - 2017-04-04 21:55:04 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sonya Corvinus
Did you ever consider, one of the reasons supers and capitals in general are so common is because of jump fatigue?
Prior to jump fatigue capitals were much harder to use than they are now due to mega groups racing all over new eden and killing them, you didn't undock caps without much thought and consideration because BL PL or NC. could be on your doorstep within a short time.
Now when someone uses caps there is a lot of planning and strategy goes into it due to how long it takes to get them anywhere. Hence there are more of them because they just don't get used enough to kill off stockpiles.

As you seem to think players throw away 2 bil plus isk carriers by whelping them, PLEASE show me one killmail that would go close to proving this. Personally I would never undock a ratting carrier with the intention of letting it die (whelping it) nobody I know would.
I (and many others) have undocked a brick tanked carrier with a cyno (which is absolutely no good for ratting if your plan is to make isk) and warped it to an anom to bait out a far more expensive super or titan and killed it. Risking a 2 bil carrier to kill a 20 bil + super or 100 bil + titan, could be called a whelp I suppose. I've never lost one doing it though, thanks to logi.
Whelping a fleet (even capitals) into a far superior fleet can be fun but isn't something you do in ratting carriers...

And I totally agree - Death to all caps - Now all you need to do is get Devs to reduce stacking fatigue so that can begin to happen.. (I own quite a few of caps and a titan, I just wish I could use them more than once or twice a month - Losing them in battle would then would be an honor)


I've lived in null/WHs/LS longer than you've played this game. If you think 2 bil is a lot to whelp, you've never actually lived in null. Jump fatigue is good. It needs to be harsher than it already is. You disagree. You seem fundamentally incapable of understanding people disagree with you (or you're trolling, I can't tell which right now). Caps and Supers are common because null is HS with extra safety anymore. You know what I tell new players? Leave HS immediately and go to null. With massive intel channels it's infinitely safer to earn ISK there than HS.

I look forward to you ignoring me again and assuming your opinion is law.

Whelping 2 bil is nothing (a day or 2 ratting), I just don't understand how or why you think people whelp rattng carriers. Do you know what a whelp is?

I don't "assume" anything - You're doing that all on your own.
I've tried to be objective and explain my point of view - You on the other hand have not tried to explain yours. Your argument is - Fatigue needs to be harsher, which is not so much an argument or explanation as it is a baseless statement (your right I'm wrong).

Ok, one more time.
As an example;
Group A - 3,000 man sov holding alliance, has a 400 strong capital fleet at their disposal to fight off attackers and defend their sov.

Group B - 3,000 man alliance that wants to go fight Group A (lives 2 regions away), they have roughly the same sized capital fleet as those they want to fight but due to distance and fatigue (the harsher one you think is needed) it is not viable to move their caps due to the time required.

Group B decide after working out the logistics of deploying, it just isn't worth it because of the time required.

Group A keeps their sov, no-one gets fights, good or bad, simply because no-one can reasonably get to them to fight.
Remember - Even just deploying subcaps to fight with requires capital ships, unless each person only takes one ship which wouldn't be much of a deployment would it.,.

By making fatigue harsher you end up making a stagnant nulsec. Those sov holders with decent capital fleets would not have their sov threatened.
Why is it do you think there has not been a big capital fight in so long?

You say you want death to all caps but insist on increasing the one thing that prevents that from happening.

10 years in August - I've been around a while. (you're assuming your're right, again)


You're wrong, fattygay is one of the best things they put in the game, it put the shackles on the alliance im in quite nicely and the game is better off for it.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Atum' Ra
Nomen-illis-Legio
Legion of xXDEATHXx
#660 - 2017-04-05 11:20:26 UTC
Better to add a fuel tank for every ship in New Eden
Small ships must be limited by the quantity of fuel which they can carry or to use a refueler in space.
Fuel must be used for jumping the gate
For example: 1 nitrogen for 1 jump for every T1 frigate and fuel tank about 50
2 for destroyers
4 for cruisers
8 for BC
16 for BS

Without fuel ship will stuck in system

Such composition will negate the ability to relocate huge fleets in a short time.