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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Dealing With Warp Disruptor/Scrams

Author
Karmastat
Bluetronics
#1 - 2017-04-02 01:43:37 UTC
Not sure if its an old or new Idea but in general allow a ship to fit a module which can be used to either 'unscramble' another players warp drive for one cycle when he gets scrammed OR it disrupts the attackers disruption field.

This will allow a friendly ship to come to the aid of his trapped companion.

For it not to be over-used or abused, make it slow cycling OR one shot OR use Lots of capacitor and only breaks the scrams applied at the time of the ship that is the target of the device AND/OR make it a high slot needing a turret AND/OR make it a high cost to fitting to a ship - making the calculation such that people will not just fit it to every ship they use.

Since it would be one shot and the attackers Scram/Disruptor will reapply without them having to do anything on the next cycle the scrammed pilot would need to prepare by aligning, prop mods on, spam warp buttons, etc. before application requiring some coordination between the pilots.

Alternatively it can break the scram like a jammer and the attacker would need to reapply, this i think could be op or abused (play testing required)

Nothing stops the attackers from scramming the rescuing ship in turn , but this will allow u to be a hero and save a more expensive ship. (Get a Corp medal?) ideally there may be only one ship that cant get away (u hire noobs for this, right?). Which highlights one issue. IF all pilots on one side fit the module they can coordinate a mass warp out and they may all get away.

Some Characteristics (subject to change, lol)

1. Relatively Short Range
(usually requires approaching or forcing fleet to pull in)
2. Fits Only to A Turret Slot (limits number & lowers DPS of ship)
3. Slow Cycling Times / One Shot (u cannot apply continuously - takes timing by both pilots)
4 Will Only Counter a certain number of points/amount of scram (you may still have to kill ships to get that low enough)
5. requires skill in coordination

In addition there is the subject of Webs, which in many cases are applied at the same time.

Without a scram; a ship warps at lower speeds - so if paying attention - an attacker could turn them off for a moment to avoid that (another point that brings a players skills to the table) and this may even allow a trapped ship to get some range (a combat tactic worth consideration in it's own right)

Which brings up a second possibility for a feature: A new module for disrupting or modifying a webs effectiveness? I'll leave that for another day.

Please I ask for constructive criticism and expansions of the idea.

Some might say this allows fleets to be un-catchable: A possibly I admit, but would point out that it takes great coordination to do so, and that ability should be rewarded. Even so if u can apply enough scrams even this method wouldn't work.

The purpose of my concept is not to allow people to escape all the time, but I think once scrams are applied that (absent blowing someone up) it tends to be a fight over situation. This would allow the prepared player - with friends - more options. make small gate camps not so fearsome and in the big fights spread the fight out as people use this.

It allows new tactics, but also very important it adds a social 'I did good' dimension to combat lacking in many cases.

One last thought (and this was my original idea)

Instead of allowing the scrammed ship to warp to a far destination - instead a warp while scrammed would just cause the ship to 'stutter warp' (ie, microjump) a short distance away when this is applied? I see much mischief in that mechanic but maybe the jump is a random 5 to 20k? Something that cant be aimed or distance known ahead of time?

Or maybe it could be? lol (not trying to replace Commnad Dessies here, since it requires action on attackers part too). Or maybe the end result is the ship just gets a temporary burst of high speed instead of a jump

any thoughts?
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#2 - 2017-04-02 02:09:40 UTC
So what you're saying is that I can never be killed as long as I bring an alt in a suicide un-scramble ship to bail me out every time things go bad? No thank you.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#3 - 2017-04-02 02:16:01 UTC
Ecm does this but with much less potential to abuse. It's literally the exact same gameplay, sacrificing cheaper ships to try and save expensive ones.

By having defenders focus all their [remote warp stabs] onto one ship it makes it very easy to make sure any ship you don't want to lose can moonwalk out of a fight as long as you sacrifice lots of destroyers. I mean, 13 catalysts could neutralise a hictors focused warp disruption field and still have some warp strength to spare. Something that can never happen using stabs due to fitting limitations. A bunch of battleships can save titans at the click of a button.

It really doesn't take that much coordination either. It's as straight forward as calling a primary. What DOES take a lot of coordination is clearing tackle using jams, because defenders trying to clear lots of tackle have to make sure they spread jams effectively.

Yeah, use ecm. Same game play but not so easy.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Bjorn Tyrson
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#4 - 2017-04-02 05:39:11 UTC
ECM and ECM bursts already fill this role. Why make a new more complicated Mechanic when one already exists that does the same thing?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2017-04-02 07:07:23 UTC
Why do you feel that freighter ganking needs this kind of a nerf, and that supercapitals need this kind of a buff?
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#6 - 2017-04-02 10:43:05 UTC
Agreed with other responses here. There's already tons of ways to counter tackle, both direct and indirect.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2017-04-02 12:50:39 UTC
A more interesting approach would be to remove WCS to force people into initially remaining on grid, but give a built in ability to overcome points/scrams over time (based on the size of the hull). So a stalemated or very slowly losing engagement can be broken, but not instantly.
Basically use it or lose it with tackle, no holding someone for 2 hours till your mates come online, if they can't get there fast enough to help the target gets away. But balanced by targets being unable to instantly escape with WCS any more.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#8 - 2017-04-02 14:12:05 UTC
Scram and WCSare fine. If you fit your ship to run and an enemy doesn't bring enough scram so be it.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#9 - 2017-04-02 15:36:46 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Ecm does this but with much less potential to abuse. It's literally the exact same gameplay, sacrificing cheaper ships to try and save expensive ones.

By having defenders focus all their [remote warp stabs] onto one ship it makes it very easy to make sure any ship you don't want to lose can moonwalk out of a fight as long as you sacrifice lots of destroyers. I mean, 13 catalysts could neutralise a hictors focused warp disruption field and still have some warp strength to spare. Something that can never happen using stabs due to fitting limitations. A bunch of battleships can save titans at the click of a button.

It really doesn't take that much coordination either. It's as straight forward as calling a primary. What DOES take a lot of coordination is clearing tackle using jams, because defenders trying to clear lots of tackle have to make sure they spread jams effectively.

Yeah, use ecm. Same game play but not so easy.



If it is easy to warp scramble someone then why should it be impossible to un-warp scramble them with the same ease?

Granted Warp Stabilizers can be fit to a ship but even the warp stab won't defeat the warp scramble. Therefore not being able to defeat the warp scramble in an engagement is in my opinion an exploit.

Reppers counter damage fully if trained and used properly so why wouldn't a module trained and used properly not be able to defeat a warp scramble?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2017-04-02 17:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
DrysonBennington wrote:
If it is easy to warp scramble someone then why should it be impossible to un-warp scramble them with the same ease?

Granted Warp Stabilizers can be fit to a ship but even the warp stab won't defeat the warp scramble. Therefore not being able to defeat the warp scramble in an engagement is in my opinion an exploit.

Reppers counter damage fully if trained and used properly so why wouldn't a module trained and used properly not be able to defeat a warp scramble?

- Mechanically, applying warp disruption is easy. Tactically, applying warp disruption is not.
Finding a target, getting in range quickly enough, watching your own capacitor power (an actual issue for smaller, non-T2 ships), and keeping the disruption applied are a fair bit more complicated.
There are so many ways one can avoid getting caught. There needs to be something that forces a person to stay.

- You can call it an "exploit" all you want. Until CCP deems it such, it isn't.
And one can fit multiple warp core stabs if there REALLY don't wish to be caught.
Or use the webbing trick to get into warp in under 5 seconds.
Or have a friend use ECM on the offending hostiles.

- Reppers can only "absorb" so much damage before they stop being effective. Get enough people or bring the right tools (see neuts) and a ship is toast.
Plus, we already have warp core stabs.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#11 - 2017-04-02 19:26:42 UTC
Because when you apply tackle that is just the beginning of the fight. The tackler still has to kill the target. It's not an auto win button.

The proposed mod stops a fight or prevents it from ever happening. It is an 'i-win' button.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#12 - 2017-04-02 20:32:17 UTC
Or you could have a buddy bump you out of scram range.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#13 - 2017-04-02 23:26:20 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
If it is easy to warp scramble someone then why should it be impossible to un-warp scramble them with the same ease?


Because alts exist, and being able to remotely un-scramble a ship would mean giving everyone a "get out of jail free" card with suicide alts. If you can't blob up and insta-pop a ship before the suicide alt gets on grid you'll never be able to kill anyone.
Krysenth
Saints Of Havoc
#14 - 2017-04-04 00:36:27 UTC
ECMs, ECM Bursts, Sensor Dampeners (with or without targeting range scripts) all do the same thing with enough attempts or luck: break a target and causes points to fall off.