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Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border

Author
Diana Kim
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#261 - 2017-04-02 08:59:32 UTC
Yoshitaka Moromuo wrote:
Apparently, discussions about the interdiction action have given way to personal attacks. This discussion may end up closed, at this rate, if we can't refocus.

I have tried, but there are people like this Tyrel Toov who wants to discuss me. Hell, not even discuss, just use thread as his board to post lies about me. That's quite shameful display of behavior, even for an enemy of the State.

But anyway, lets try again to refocus it back to where it belongs, instead of... asking others to do that.



Someone has claimed that Quafe transports were returning. But does we know if this is true? Our HQ hasn't confirmed these claims. On the other hand, even returning ships could have simply violated orders of border guards. They could simply not mention the fact they were asked to do something. In most cases it is true for incoming ships as well: they are asked first to turn around and only after that they are being shot. Exclusion to this is only military vessels or vessels with known military symbolics: FDU, FedNavy, BlackEagle, FIO, TLF, and so on.

If ships were of not military origin, just Quafe, they definitely should have been asked first to follow a certain order. And you know, if a civilian ship doesn't follow an order from a military unit that is placed in a strategic point, it is just considered an enemy unit in disguise and it is shot down.

Do you remember prior to drug legalization what would happen to your ship if you tried to smuggle illegal drugs and was caught by security?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Maria Daphiti
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#262 - 2017-04-02 13:17:29 UTC
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:
Maria Daphiti wrote:


It's a real big deal to take someone from outside the family to meet them at the family home to mee the parents and grand parents!

Usually the implication is they are on the way to be becoming part of the family.

Family's pretty important in both the Empire and Republic I guess, even if for different reasons or cultures.


So when are you bringing over a nice man to meet me and your father? Tick tock! You aren't getting any younger. (and don't give me the "I'm a capsuleer line").


And.. this is why i should not post on the IGS. *sulkily*
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Burning Skies
Apocalypse Now.
#263 - 2017-04-02 16:05:41 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Someone has claimed that Quafe transports were returning. But does we know if this is true? Our HQ hasn't confirmed these claims. On the other hand, even returning ships could have simply violated orders of border guards. They could simply not mention the fact they were asked to do something. In most cases it is true for incoming ships as well: they are asked first to turn around and only after that they are being shot. Exclusion to this is only military vessels or vessels with known military symbolics: FDU, FedNavy, BlackEagle, FIO, TLF, and so on.

If ships were of not military origin, just Quafe, they definitely should have been asked first to follow a certain order. And you know, if a civilian ship doesn't follow an order from a military unit that is placed in a strategic point, it is just considered an enemy unit in disguise and it is shot down.

Do you remember prior to drug legalization what would happen to your ship if you tried to smuggle illegal drugs and was caught by security?

There's unfortunately been precious little to come out since the action. We don't know the process that was (or wasn't) followed on either end; we have a statement of what alludes to a cargo manifest; we do have a flight plan that shows their intended terminus. Beyond that, nothing else.

It's difficult to assume at this point, and even now almost any possibility (rogue actors on either side of the engagement, bad orders on either side, etc.) is valid, until findings begin to come out.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#264 - 2017-04-02 16:33:17 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

Someone has claimed that Quafe transports were returning. But does we know if this is true? Our HQ hasn't confirmed these claims. On the other hand, even returning ships could have simply violated orders of border guards. They could simply not mention the fact they were asked to do something. In most cases it is true for incoming ships as well: they are asked first to turn around and only after that they are being shot. Exclusion to this is only military vessels or vessels with known military symbolics: FDU, FedNavy, BlackEagle, FIO, TLF, and so on.

If ships were of not military origin, just Quafe, they definitely should have been asked first to follow a certain order. And you know, if a civilian ship doesn't follow an order from a military unit that is placed in a strategic point, it is just considered an enemy unit in disguise and it is shot down.

Do you remember prior to drug legalization what would happen to your ship if you tried to smuggle illegal drugs and was caught by security?

Even beyond all that, whether they were leaving or entering, the borders closed. Where I come from closed border means just that. Do not try to pass its not allowed. If they showed up and requested authorization and got denied, what did they expect when they ignored orders from a state(or any armed empire ship) official's ship? Claiming there are caldari on board, true or false is a rather horrible attempt at a smear campaign dont ya think?
Matar Ronin
#265 - 2017-04-02 17:33:34 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:

Think it's time to hang it up guys you won't make him see reason, Arrendis. And Ronin? Congrats, you're the republics's Diana Kim now. Good luck being taken seriously by anyone regardless of your accomplishments.


Your words about me are empty and groundless accusations, that degrade not me, but your person.

Luckily, no here are dumb enough to fall for your delusional lies about me. (Well, maybe except types like Matar Ronin, Arrendis and Saya Ishikari, but these are just special ones).

I would kindly ask you to leave the IGS and stop spewing our your hatred and derailing threads, trying to discuss me, and not just discuss, but provoke such sort of discussions by dumping outrageous lies.

Just, be gone. You are not a person suitable for civilized conversations.

Uh-huh, sure, whatever. (This is intended as a dismissal of your position, not an affirmation.) As a person, you are in fact the lowest form of scum and not with the effort. I'm blocking both you and Ronin from this point forward.
At long last the "Periwinkle Princess" is going to stop trolling me! Good things come to he who waits.Pirate

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#266 - 2017-04-02 19:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Mr. Ronin?

Mr. Toov and I probably disagree about a lot of things, and I kind of suspect he'd kill my ship without hesitation given a chance and look at any deaths among my crew as a bonus rather than anything sad. But ...

He's still someone I pay attention to when he has something to say. Often it's sharp, often it's aggressive to the point of being upsetting, but probably a lot of that is where I stand politically-- that is, beside someone loyal to the Empire ...

But I still want to hear what he has to say, and be heard. That's kind of what "respect" seems to consist of, here, on this forum.

What I'm getting at is, maybe having respected people decide they don't care to hear what you have to say anymore isn't really something to celebrate.

Not that I expect you to listen to me, but it seems worth trying to say it anyway.
James Syagrius
Reclamation
#267 - 2017-04-02 19:28:48 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
What I'm getting at is, maybe having respected people decide they don't care to hear what you have to say anymore isn't really something to celebrate.
Respectable, dear me, what a word.

Or not, but I suppose it's in the... ear of the beholder.

Personally, I listen to what everyone has to say. Especially if they have contrary opinions, and yes even the crazies. I may disagree or oppose what is said, vociferously, but I still listen. Everyone says something of merit sometimes.

People who only listen when you say something they like, are quite different than respectable.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#268 - 2017-04-02 19:41:48 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Mr. Ronin?

Mr. Toov and I probably disagree about a lot of things, and I kind of suspect he'd kill my ship without hesitation given a chance and look at any deaths among my crew as a bonus rather than anything sad. But ...

While I am not speaking for him, as a corp NOT-X PMC looks to ignore SFRIM in general as you aren't an actual combat entity we worry about. Seeing as thats the case and knowing majority of our pilots generally fly in our own sphere, such a thing is highly unlikely. If he is solo thats another story entirely, we do not have a conduct clause or anything required to fly with us. I would honestly say its unlikely though.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#269 - 2017-04-02 19:49:12 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
What I'm getting at is, maybe having respected people decide they don't care to hear what you have to say anymore isn't really something to celebrate.
Respectable, dear me, what a word.

Or not, but I suppose it's in the... ear of the beholder.

Personally, I listen to what everyone has to say. Especially if they have contrary opinions, and yes even the crazies. I may disagree or oppose what is said, vociferously, but I still listen. Everyone says something of merit sometimes.

People who only listen when you say something they like, are quite different than respectable.


I wonder what your point is here, Mr. Syagrius. If you're looking to pick a fight with Mr. Toov, I'll just stand aside and let you get to it....

(I agree that "respectable" is quite a word. I don't think I used it, though-- it's pretty loaded, even compared to, for example, "respected.")
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#270 - 2017-04-02 20:05:18 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
While I am not speaking for him, as a corp NOT-X PMC looks to ignore SFRIM in general as you aren't an actual combat entity we worry about. Seeing as thats the case and knowing majority of our pilots generally fly in our own sphere, such a thing is highly unlikely. If he is solo thats another story entirely, we do not have a conduct clause or anything required to fly with us. I would honestly say its unlikely though.

Okay. Thank you, Ms. Vess. I guess it's been kind of a while since I flew in support of Ms. Daphiti.
James Syagrius
Reclamation
#271 - 2017-04-03 00:28:51 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I wonder what your point is here, Mr. Syagrius. If you're looking to pick a fight with Mr. Toov, I'll just stand aside and let you get to it....
Now now, I am not looking to pick a fight with anyone my dear, if I were you wouldn't have to guess. The term respectable just struck me as funny... considering.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#272 - 2017-04-03 00:45:21 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Mr. Ronin?

Mr. Toov and I probably disagree about a lot of things, and I kind of suspect he'd kill my ship without hesitation given a chance and look at any deaths among my crew as a bonus rather than anything sad. But ...
I don't think about the collateral damage. Even less when it comes down to a choice of your crew or mine.

Aria Jenneth wrote:
He's still someone I pay attention to when he has something to say. Often it's sharp, often it's aggressive to the point of being upsetting, but probably a lot of that is where I stand politically-- that is, beside someone loyal to the Empire ...

But I still want to hear what he has to say, and be heard. That's kind of what "respect" seems to consist of, here, on this forum.
I appreciate your honesty, and the feeling is mutual.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#273 - 2017-04-03 04:15:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
James Syagrius wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I wonder what your point is here, Mr. Syagrius. If you're looking to pick a fight with Mr. Toov, I'll just stand aside and let you get to it....
Now now, I am not looking to pick a fight with anyone my dear, if I were you wouldn't have to guess. The term respectable just struck me as funny... considering.


Considering?

Respect is something constructed only slowly, Mr. Syagrius, and lost in seconds for any number of reasons. That might not seem to you like the way it should be, but that is typically how it works. For example, respect for a person's integrity might be lost in a single disingenuous moment, while respect for someone's insight and sound judgment is lost in a moment's awful folly.

Once I'd have assumed you knew this implicitly. Now....

Obviously I'm still listening to you, Mr. Syagrius. Only, once I'd have watched you as a student watches a teacher. Now I watch you much as I watch anyone: as a person playing a part in this world, and fascinating on that account alone, but not really someone I should expect to learn something really worthwhile from.

It seems that losing my regard might have cut you more than you claimed at the time. Good. Maybe you'll show yourself to be a particularly interesting person again. I try to leave that possibility open for anyone. At least one of your apparent companions already has my attention that way.

I kind of doubt it'll happen by you following me around making oblique, significant remarks, though, "my dear." But it doesn't surprise me if you might think otherwise.

Considering.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#274 - 2017-04-03 05:54:52 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
The term respectable just struck me as funny... considering.


... that it wasn't anywhere in the post you responded to?

Sorry, Aria, I know you've already chopped down this particular pedan-tree, but I think you might need to pick up a branch and beat him with it. Especially if he's throwing around mildly dismissive diminutive forms of address like 'my dear'.
Matar Ronin
#275 - 2017-04-03 08:37:19 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Mr. Ronin?

Mr. Toov and I probably disagree about a lot of things, and I kind of suspect he'd kill my ship without hesitation given a chance and look at any deaths among my crew as a bonus rather than anything sad. But ...

He's still someone I pay attention to when he has something to say. Often it's sharp, often it's aggressive to the point of being upsetting, but probably a lot of that is where I stand politically-- that is, beside someone loyal to the Empire ...

But I still want to hear what he has to say, and be heard. That's kind of what "respect" seems to consist of, here, on this forum.

What I'm getting at is, maybe having respected people decide they don't care to hear what you have to say anymore isn't really something to celebrate.

Not that I expect you to listen to me, but it seems worth trying to say it anyway.
Of course you are entitled to your own point of view pilot Jenneth but as is all too often true you think your point of view is either correct or valid when in this, as in many cases it is neither.

To date the "Periwinkle Princess" has said nothing of importance to me or about me and has often spoke as if he represents some form of IGS participant credibility board that rules over what should or should not be said or when enough has been said, all the while insulting and comparing me to kim. kim is objectionable because she is an unabashed cowardly racist who lusts after the death of other ethnic groups and or nationalities that she espouses to be better than because of her birth membership in the "State".

Even though I despise the slavery cultists and their many apologist supporters like you, I sincerely want them to change their putrid ways not just line up in front of my rail guns for slaughter as the solution to their sick beliefs.

Being someone who believes passionately in the equality of all human life being constantly and maliciously compared to the antithesis of that belief is something I will not miss from the "Periwinkle Princess".Pirate

I of course understand if you do not understand this because from the general impression you leave you crave for the approval of the popular majority above almost everything else while I would rather be right than just popular.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Sheyan Mazaki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#276 - 2017-04-03 10:58:49 UTC
Well, it was certainly admirable of a select few (including Strike Commander Kim, I'll add) to try to get this thread back onto the actual topic. However, it seems that ego and the endless need of some to have the last word will, unfortunately, drown out most legitimate and mature discussion between parties.

It seems rather shameful of anyone, no matter what their alignment is, to take any part of this Kyonoke Crisis and turn it into a platform for their own chest-beating.

In regards to the actual topic, hopefully there will be knowledge granted soon so that theories based on lack of information (and in some cases personal bias) will instead become facts based on evidence. At the very least, the family of those that perished deserve a better explanation.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#277 - 2017-04-03 11:03:16 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Being someone who believes passionately in the equality of all human life being constantly and maliciously compared to the antithesis of that belief is something I will not miss from the "Periwinkle Princess".Pirate

I of course understand if you do not understand this because from the general impression you leave you crave for the approval of the popular majority above almost everything else while I would rather be right than just popular.

No-- most people will object to being compared to someone they perceive as an awful person for one reason or another.

"But I'm nothing like (her/him)!" isn't a very rare sentiment here. You and Ms. Kim are just the most recent example, each outraged at the notion that you might have something in common with the other.

About popular approval ... hm. Well, if I really did crave popular approval above all, I kind of doubt you'd be counting me an apologist for the Amarr. Accepting a role as a servant here, even to someone as well-admired as Lunarisse Aspenstar Daphiti, hasn't been the most popular move.

I can't really claim to be immune to that kind of thing, though. I do like to be liked. It makes talking to people easier, even if they think I'm horribly wrong about almost everything. It's important to me to keep lines of communication open. How else will I know when someone who thinks I'm wrong has a point?

Also, it seems like it's hard to be right all the time. It's hard on a person to even really try, and probably at least as hard on people who, subjectively, succeed, though I guess a lot of those at least have their rightness to comfort them when the whole world's shaking its head or rolling its eyes.

It seems easier to be wise than to reliably be right. That's kind of what I want to be-- wise. Most of all, I want to see clearly.

I'll leave the being right to others.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#278 - 2017-04-03 11:20:57 UTC
Sheyan Mazaki wrote:
Well, it was certainly admirable of a select few (including Strike Commander Kim, I'll add) to try to get this thread back onto the actual topic. However, it seems that ego and the endless need of some to have the last word will, unfortunately, drown out most legitimate and mature discussion between parties.

It seems rather shameful of anyone, no matter what their alignment is, to take any part of this Kyonoke Crisis and turn it into a platform for their own chest-beating.

In regards to the actual topic, hopefully there will be knowledge granted soon so that theories based on lack of information (and in some cases personal bias) will instead become facts based on evidence. At the very least, the family of those that perished deserve a better explanation.

So ... on the one hand, true. On the other, this incident carries a potent emotional and historical charge.

Like most Caldari, my feeling is that something's wrong with the story so far, that we should withhold judgment and wait for developments. That doesn't seem reasonable to everyone, though.

Absent more news, I'm not sure what more there was to say on this topic. Conversations drift, solemn occasion or not. Sometimes they drift into a fight. This one never had very far to go to arrive at such a place. In a way it doesn't make me so sad for it to be about personalities and egos rather than national stereotypes, bitter recriminations, and rumors of war.
Sheyan Mazaki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#279 - 2017-04-03 11:51:42 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Like most Caldari, my feeling is that something's wrong with the story so far, that we should withhold judgment and wait for developments.


Agreed.

Aria Jenneth wrote:
Absent more news, I'm not sure what more there was to say on this topic.


Precisely.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#280 - 2017-04-03 11:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Like most Caldari, my feeling is that something's wrong with the story so far, that we should withhold judgment and wait for developments.


Oh, and here I thought I saw most Caldari in this thread ready to blame this on some crackpot "Federation did this somehow" conspiracy plot from the get go.