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Alphas and F2P Have Failed
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Scialt
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#581 - 2017-03-31 19:07:56 UTC
Jax Bederen wrote:
Scialt wrote:
Soleiyu wrote:
I looked at eve offline and saw the PCU is below average even though the game is now kinda F2P, which is not what CCP wanted to see (and the fact alphas last about 2 seconds against us bittervets), and cements that EvE really is, infact, dying.

My worthless opinion is that the game needs to get back to it's more hardcore roots, it needs to provide easily available pvp, alliances need to be removed, any methods of clumping huge numbers of players together needs to go but getting into small groups needs to be fluid and easy. Gates need to be changed so that they land you randomly within a few AU of the gate, not a few KM. Level 4 missions...missions in general, just remove the lot and replace them with 'epic arc' type missions, PvE that supports PvP baseline game play without grind or the point to even grind. Make it so if someone is logged in, the chances of them interacting with players meaningfully is high.

A player locked into a PvE grind might as well not exist. Players huddled up into NAPs might as well not exist. Gatecampers might as well not exist.

Everyone vs Everyone, log in, undock, boom!

Right now I cba to even log in, the PCU might suggest a few 10ks of players are online, but most of them, might as well not exist.


The high PCU for March this year was around 44K.
Last year the high for March was around 38K.

That's about a 16% increase from last year.

Keep in mind the record is only 65K... so a 6,000 PCU increase is a pretty sizeable increase.... especially for a game nearly 15 years old.


Yea it's not about the highs, especially with all the alpha accounts around, I came back last year after taking a break in 2012 and the average logged player numbers are about halved of what they were then. You can see this even more logged in where once thriving areas feel empty and quiet. Even the help you used to get in game is gone, replaced by a website and longer wait time. The company shrunk it's employee pool as well and finally introduced a ftp in demo mode. If you are seeing some sort of a Renaissance you are not being realistic. Game wont drop of a cliff or anything, well unless Star Citizen finally comes out, but even with 10k players it will likely function and follow the same path it has since the beginning,



Well, the PCU average for March of 2017 was 26K. 22K in March of 2016. A 4K increase. 35K was the average in 2013 (around the PCU peak)

Eve had been 9,000 off the average an effectively halved that. I don't think that's a horrible result for adding Alphas to eve (given that we're now about 4.5 months into the Alpha experiment... many of the "hello-goodbye" folks have already left.)

2012 was close to the peak of Eve's numbers. 2009 to the end of 2013 was when things were "booming" (in eve terms... the game has never been truly huge). It looks like Eve has leveled off what was a preciptious descent in late 2015 and 2016 and climbed back to numbers we had in late 2014/early 2015. We'll see if we stay there or slowly bleed back to the 2016 numbers.
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#582 - 2017-03-31 20:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jax Bederen
Scialt wrote:
Jax Bederen wrote:
Scialt wrote:
Soleiyu wrote:
I looked at eve offline and saw the PCU is below average even though the game is now kinda F2P, which is not what CCP wanted to see (and the fact alphas last about 2 seconds against us bittervets), and cements that EvE really is, infact, dying.

My worthless opinion is that the game needs to get back to it's more hardcore roots, it needs to provide easily available pvp, alliances need to be removed, any methods of clumping huge numbers of players together needs to go but getting into small groups needs to be fluid and easy. Gates need to be changed so that they land you randomly within a few AU of the gate, not a few KM. Level 4 missions...missions in general, just remove the lot and replace them with 'epic arc' type missions, PvE that supports PvP baseline game play without grind or the point to even grind. Make it so if someone is logged in, the chances of them interacting with players meaningfully is high.

A player locked into a PvE grind might as well not exist. Players huddled up into NAPs might as well not exist. Gatecampers might as well not exist.

Everyone vs Everyone, log in, undock, boom!

Right now I cba to even log in, the PCU might suggest a few 10ks of players are online, but most of them, might as well not exist.


The high PCU for March this year was around 44K.
Last year the high for March was around 38K.

That's about a 16% increase from last year.

Keep in mind the record is only 65K... so a 6,000 PCU increase is a pretty sizeable increase.... especially for a game nearly 15 years old.


Yea it's not about the highs, especially with all the alpha accounts around, I came back last year after taking a break in 2012 and the average logged player numbers are about halved of what they were then. You can see this even more logged in where once thriving areas feel empty and quiet. Even the help you used to get in game is gone, replaced by a website and longer wait time. The company shrunk it's employee pool as well and finally introduced a ftp in demo mode. If you are seeing some sort of a Renaissance you are not being realistic. Game wont drop of a cliff or anything, well unless Star Citizen finally comes out, but even with 10k players it will likely function and follow the same path it has since the beginning,



Well, the PCU average for March of 2017 was 26K. 22K in March of 2016. A 4K increase. 35K was the average in 2013 (around the PCU peak)

Eve had been 9,000 off the average an effectively halved that. I don't think that's a horrible result for adding Alphas to eve (given that we're now about 4.5 months into the Alpha experiment... many of the "hello-goodbye" folks have already left.)

2012 was close to the peak of Eve's numbers. 2009 to the end of 2013 was when things were "booming" (in eve terms... the game has never been truly huge). It looks like Eve has leveled off what was a preciptious descent in late 2015 and 2016 and climbed back to numbers we had in late 2014/early 2015. We'll see if we stay there or slowly bleed back to the 2016 numbers.


In 2012 it was mostly around 50k when logging, though nice rose filtered sunglasses there , ignoring everything else I noted, but good for you, nothing wrong with some optimism.
Scialt
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#583 - 2017-03-31 20:44:56 UTC
Jax Bederen wrote:


In 2012 it was mostly around 50k when logging, though nice rose filtered sunglasses there , ignoring everything else I noted, but good for you, nothing wrong with some optimism.


The difference is I stopped playing around 2009. Right now it doesn't feel all that much different than I remember... but I missed the entire peak. My prior experience was from around the time of the dissolution of BOB.

All I'm doing is pointing out the stats that others referenced. When I log in it usually starts at around 35K and drops to 25K as I play into the US EST night. Add about 10-15K to those numbers on the weekend.

I'm not really looking at it optimistically... I'm just looking at objective data (as opposed to memories of what the levels were).

The numbers suggest a small but meaningful recovery. It's not back at 2012... and it will probably never get back to that point. But it is an improvement from the year before Alpha's got introduced (at least in terms of population). Are they subbing and giving CCP money? No idea. But even after 4-5 months they seem to still be logging in.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#584 - 2017-03-31 22:31:07 UTC
It seems waaaay too early to declare alphas a success or failure. The initial surge may be over, but the idea behind alphas and NPE is to encourage a larger percentage of people who try the game to stick with it beyond the initial hurdles. If they can move those retention numbers from 10% to 15% (arbitrary numbers), then it's a win. Over the long term, that would begin to grow the player base again. But you're not going to see evidence of a subtle shift in retention numbers by looking at the daily login numbers after the first few months of the effort. Even CCP doesn't know if it's worked or not yet.

Think about how gradual the early increases and subsequent declines have been. It's completely unreasonable to think the reversal of that trend would be any less gradual. There's absolutely no way you'd be able to make judgements in any timeframe short of a year.

This reeks of Henny-Penny-the-sky-is-falling hysteria. Calm down miner.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#585 - 2017-03-31 22:43:01 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Calm down miner.


Uh-oh...somebody is being assimilated....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#586 - 2017-04-01 00:39:29 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:
Calm down miner.


Uh-oh...somebody is being assimilated....



Ha...I like to think there's a little James 315 in all of us.
Kirie Kumamato
Ascension From Okomon
#587 - 2017-04-01 07:34:37 UTC
Does anyone know if someone's scraped data for how many alphas represent returning players vs. new players? My assumption is that the vast majority of the alpha surge was made of players who once played EVE and couldn't commit enough time for it to be worth the subscription, rather than new players interested in the F2P access. These alphas won't convert to omega accounts unless they're suddenly able to devote that time, and that's not something CCP or anything in-game can control. It wouldn't matter how difficult EVE is to learn or how long it takes to get to the "good stuff," most alphas just want to come back to a world and community they enjoy.

Even if alphas don't translate to omega subscriptions, I'd argue that the extra content these returning players provide outweighs any downsides of the F2P model. Sure, they don't add to CCP's funds and can't compete on an equal level with omegas, but they can still contribute to the in-game economy, (try to) gank, fight small gang brawls, fill the ranks of alliances, and drop an opinion or two in the forums. Returning to roots would be a warm salute to a devoted fanbase; opening the gates to less enthusiastic fans is a wise move for a 15 year old game which, by all accounts, should be long dead. EVE will fade in time, and alphas should keep it going for a bit longer.

Now, if the alpha surge was dominated by new players, that would be really interesting...
Rosie Hazelcrush
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#588 - 2017-04-01 16:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rosie Hazelcrush
Alexander Maxim wrote:
Server reset. And I say this as someone who has 10 years into this game. I know many friends who like the new mechanics, but won't play because of the powers that be.

Burn it all. Start from scratch.

I bet that subs would be off the charts.

same here, ingame since 2009.

seriously, reset everything. delete all skillpoints, all chars, all corps, all alliances, all blueprints, all citadels, every single isk and asset in the game. respawn all stations, belts (they should be random anyway), moons, agents, everything. re-link the stargates to create a new universe. open servers. boom. eve's persistence has reached a problematic status.

in this regard, refineries is a much needed and far too late coming patch. should have happened earlier.
may i add another killer change to it: make BPOs decay over time.

addendum:
why not introduce cycles/intervals to the game. every x years a reset happens. adjust skill training time/skill and bpo costs/etc accordingly. allow dual-char training on one account by default. it would focus the game onto what it really is, a fierce competetion, who can reach, settle and hold the outer edge of space first, starting from zero.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#589 - 2017-04-01 16:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Rosie Hazelcrush wrote:

same here, ingame since 2009.

seriously, reset everything. delete all skillpoints, all chars, all corps, all alliances, all blueprints, all citadels, every single isk and asset in the game. respawn all stations, belts (they should be random anyway), moons, agents, everything. re-link the stargates to create a new universe. open servers. boom. eve's persistence has reached a problematic status.

in this regard, refineries is a much needed and far too late coming patch. should have happened earlier.
may i add another killer change to it: make BPOs decay over time.

addendum:
why not introduce cycles/intervals to the game. every x years a reset happens. adjust skill training time/skill and bpo costs/etc accordingly. allow dual-char training on one account by default. it would focus the game onto what it really is, a fierce competetion, who can reach, settle and hold the outer edge of space first, starting from zero.


This won't work - most people become attached to what they have built, Eve already has pulled in the larger part of people who are interested in this type of game. Many many people will instantly quit, the tiny number of people the change will make the game appealing to, who were previously put off by trying to break into an established game environment, won't even cover a fraction of the loss from the player base. Some might trickle back in when enough time has past they feel like starting over but most won't.

The premise isn't without some merit though as the world has moved on a long way since the early days of the game - some areas could be tweaked to offset legacy domination, etc.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#590 - 2017-04-01 17:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
Rosie Hazelcrush wrote:
Alexander Maxim wrote:
Server reset. And I say this as someone who has 10 years into this game. I know many friends who like the new mechanics, but won't play because of the powers that be.

Burn it all. Start from scratch.

I bet that subs would be off the charts.

same here, ingame since 2009.

seriously, reset everything. delete all skillpoints, all chars, all corps, all alliances, all blueprints, all citadels, every single isk and asset in the game. respawn all stations, belts (they should be random anyway), moons, agents, everything. re-link the stargates to create a new universe. open servers. boom. eve's persistence has reached a problematic status.

in this regard, refineries is a much needed and far too late coming patch. should have happened earlier.
may i add another killer change to it: make BPOs decay over time.





Well, that certainly sounds refreshing and special for you players that have been in the game for 10 years and are now wandering the galaxy trying to figure out what to do with your lives, but what about people like me? I'm about a year in and am just getting to the point where I can do interesting stuff for the first time. I really enjoy the game, but there's no way I'm starting over.

If you want to be reset to zero, then start a new character. Nobody is stopping you. Better yet, go play a new game and make way for the new breed coming up. But blowing up the entire server because a few bittervets are bored is a breathtakingly stupid idea. My apologies for being offensive, but I don't know how else to say it.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#591 - 2017-04-01 19:05:53 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Rosie Hazelcrush wrote:
Alexander Maxim wrote:
Server reset. And I say this as someone who has 10 years into this game. I know many friends who like the new mechanics, but won't play because of the powers that be.

Burn it all. Start from scratch.

I bet that subs would be off the charts.

same here, ingame since 2009.

seriously, reset everything. delete all skillpoints, all chars, all corps, all alliances, all blueprints, all citadels, every single isk and asset in the game. respawn all stations, belts (they should be random anyway), moons, agents, everything. re-link the stargates to create a new universe. open servers. boom. eve's persistence has reached a problematic status.

in this regard, refineries is a much needed and far too late coming patch. should have happened earlier.
may i add another killer change to it: make BPOs decay over time.





Well, that certainly sounds refreshing and special for you players that have been in the game for 10 years and are now wandering the galaxy trying to figure out what to do with your lives, but what about people like me? I'm about a year in and am just getting to the point where I can do interesting stuff for the first time. I really enjoy the game, but there's no way I'm starting over.

If you want to be reset to zero, then start a new character. Nobody is stopping you. Better yet, go play a new game and make way for the new breed coming up. But blowing up the entire server because a few bittervets are bored is a breathtakingly stupid idea. My apologies for being offensive, but I don't know how else to say it.


Funny that right? They can literally give their ISK away, biomass their current character, etc. and create a new character and get what they want...but they don't do it. That tells me they really don't want to do it unless it is also forced on everyone else. It is that latter condition that makes the whole thing ridiculous. It would drag a bunch of people into their idea of what is good whether they want it or not.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Vanessa Celtis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#592 - 2017-04-01 20:13:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanessa Celtis
Zarek Kree wrote:
Rosie Hazelcrush wrote:
Alexander Maxim wrote:
Server reset. And I say this as someone who has 10 years into this game. I know many friends who like the new mechanics, but won't play because of the powers that be.

Burn it all. Start from scratch.

I bet that subs would be off the charts.

same here, ingame since 2009.

seriously, reset everything. delete all skillpoints, all chars, all corps, all alliances, all blueprints, all citadels, every single isk and asset in the game. respawn all stations, belts (they should be random anyway), moons, agents, everything. re-link the stargates to create a new universe. open servers. boom. eve's persistence has reached a problematic status.

in this regard, refineries is a much needed and far too late coming patch. should have happened earlier.
may i add another killer change to it: make BPOs decay over time.





Well, that certainly sounds refreshing and special for you players that have been in the game for 10 years and are now wandering the galaxy trying to figure out what to do with your lives, but what about people like me? I'm about a year in and am just getting to the point where I can do interesting stuff for the first time. I really enjoy the game, but there's no way I'm starting over.

If you want to be reset to zero, then start a new character. Nobody is stopping you. Better yet, go play a new game and make way for the new breed coming up. But blowing up the entire server because a few bittervets are bored is a breathtakingly stupid idea. My apologies for being offensive, but I don't know how else to say it.



Fully agree, it's not offensive, it's well said. The persistence is a key element of the game and resetting the whole thing is absurd. However I am in favor of a galaxy expansion with some new mechanics. Login rates and number of players online is not that important, if you want action go to heavy populated systems, there are plenty and it takes 5mins to fly there.
whatamidoinghere
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#593 - 2017-04-01 20:56:02 UTC
Maybe if the game wasn't incredibly boring. I mean having to put effort into a game that I hope to get entertainment value out of isn't fun. I'd rather the content come to me, be spoonfed, and then gradually allow me to venture off on my own and do my thing after I have learned enough to be confident. I need to be trained to be an EVE player.

The biggest problem EVE has is that nerds suck at explaining things because they don't understand people don't think like them.
Nemelle
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#594 - 2017-04-01 20:57:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nemelle
Unlike conventional game developers, CCP's role is not to create additional content, but to incentivise corporations to utilize new players and incorporate them into their null-sec empire.

These structural issues are hurdles that prevent null-sec corps from taking in new players:

  • Null-sec belongs to player corps and alliances, and allowing strangers into sovereign territory carry major risks - without giving these corps incentives to take in people and putting them to work for the benefit of the corps (that offsets the risks), people will be turned away or shot (mostly the latter)


  • Null-sec has limited activities suitable for new players, and the burden is again placed on corps to give them reasons to stay. Being a corp officer in null-sec is hard work, and having to manage all the new players would be space-nanny simulation. Again, there needs to be incentives that make corp and corp officers want to take in new people


  • Null-sec economy is still tied to high-sec trade hubs, and players naturally gravitate toward Jita or Amarr. Secondary markets need to have reasons to open up in deep null-sec. Again, why should corps invest time and energy to make this happen?

The core issue is that CCP needs let go (instead of double down on hand-holding) and focus on creating tools for corporations

  • Allow corps to better manage players amongst its ranks - color coding new players as a separate group to prevent them access to essential functions. For example, new players would be red to sensitive systems and would be shot on sight


  • Open new low level pirate / elite faction agents in null-sec that give good reward - player corps would levy taxes from new players running these missions


  • Corporations should *want* to secure a space in null-sec and attract large number of players to join and run faction agent missions within their domain (level 1 to 4) - the corporations would rise in faction standing and be rewarded with unique BPOs. This gives corporations and alliances more reasons to invade and conquer null-sec space, not just to rat, but to allow their army of new players run missions under their protection to generate corporate cashflow - corp leaders are not supposed to be the best people to grind, they are the ones who can get more people to grind for them


  • Improve interfaces and game mechanics that give new players a role in the running of low-level corporate functions


In essence, EVE is libertarian dream in space (should the government directly create jobs, or should the government create an environment where private entities step in to create jobs?). Many players come here to create their own stories, but CCP's focus on high-sec PVE is essentially reading a story to the players rather than allowing them to write their own.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#595 - 2017-04-01 21:47:46 UTC
Nemelle wrote:
Unlike conventional game developers, CCP's role is not to create additional content, but to incentivise corporations to utilize new players and incorporate them into their null-sec empire.

These structural issues are hurdles that prevent null-sec corps from taking in new players:

  • Null-sec belongs to player corps and alliances, and allowing strangers into sovereign territory carry major risks - without giving these corps incentives to take in people and putting them to work for the benefit of the corps (that offsets the risks), people will be turned away or shot (mostly the latter)


  • Null-sec has limited activities suitable for new players, and the burden is again placed on corps to give them reasons to stay. Being a corp officer in null-sec is hard work, and having to manage all the new players would be space-nanny simulation. Again, there needs to be incentives that make corp and corp officers want to take in new people


  • Null-sec economy is still tied to high-sec trade hubs, and players naturally gravitate toward Jita or Amarr. Secondary markets need to have reasons to open up in deep null-sec. Again, why should corps invest time and energy to make this happen?

The core issue is that CCP needs let go (instead of double down on hand-holding) and focus on creating tools for corporations

  • Allow corps to better manage players amongst its ranks - color coding new players as a separate group to prevent them access to essential functions. For example, new players would be red to sensitive systems and would be shot on sight


  • Open new low level pirate / elite faction agents in null-sec that give good reward - player corps would levy taxes from new players running these missions


  • Corporations should *want* to secure a space in null-sec and attract large number of players to join and run faction agent missions within their domain (level 1 to 4) - the corporations would rise in faction standing and be rewarded with unique BPOs. This gives corporations and alliances more reasons to invade and conquer null-sec space, not just to rat, but to allow their army of new players run missions under their protection to generate corporate cashflow - corp leaders are not supposed to be the best people to grind, they are the ones who can get more people to grind for them


  • Improve interfaces and game mechanics that give new players a role in the running of low-level corporate functions


In essence, EVE is libertarian dream in space (should the government directly create jobs, or should the government create an environment where private entities step in to create jobs?). Many players come here to create their own stories, but CCP's focus on high-sec PVE is essentially reading a story to the players rather than allowing them to write their own.


What you are describing Goons already do. Yes, you are basically outlining something New Eden's Bad Guys™ do. Goonwaffe takes in new players form the Something Awful forums, Karmafleet takes in new players in general. Goons have a very thick (for NS) market, they have lots of information and advice on how new players can not only live in NS, but thrive (for example, run anomalies in groups when you are new yes, the pay off sucks compared to a 4 year player running a anomaly in a carrier....but it is way, way better than other new player options for income while solo).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#596 - 2017-04-01 22:06:01 UTC
whatamidoinghere wrote:
Maybe if the game wasn't incredibly boring. I mean having to put effort into a game that I hope to get entertainment value out of isn't fun. I'd rather the content come to me, be spoonfed, and then gradually allow me to venture off on my own and do my thing after I have learned enough to be confident. I need to be trained to be an EVE player.

The biggest problem EVE has is that nerds suck at explaining things because they don't understand people don't think like them.


Bye!
Kirie Kumamato
Ascension From Okomon
#597 - 2017-04-01 23:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirie Kumamato
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nemelle wrote:
Unlike conventional game developers, CCP's role is not to create additional content, but to incentivise corporations to utilize new players and incorporate them into their null-sec empire.

These structural issues ...
[for brevity]
... allowing them to write their own.


What you are describing Goons already do. Yes, you are basically outlining something New Eden's Bad Guys™ do. Goonwaffe takes in new players form the Something Awful forums, Karmafleet takes in new players in general. Goons have a very thick (for NS) market, they have lots of information and advice on how new players can not only live in NS, but thrive (for example, run anomalies in groups when you are new yes, the pay off sucks compared to a 4 year player running a anomaly in a carrier....but it is way, way better than other new player options for income while solo).


Yes for rewards in null-sec and "allowing [players] to write their own [stories]," but Nemelle is also talking about tools for general corp management, and that's not something even the Goons can provide. I particularly like her point about finer controls for personnel management. It removes the grind of being a "space nanny" while making for more interesting internal security challenges. Post to Player Features and Ideas?
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#598 - 2017-04-02 01:34:21 UTC
whatamidoinghere wrote:
Maybe if the game wasn't incredibly boring. I mean having to put effort into a game that I hope to get entertainment value out of isn't fun. I'd rather the content come to me, be spoonfed, and then gradually allow me to venture off on my own and do my thing after I have learned enough to be confident. I need to be trained to be an EVE player.

The biggest problem EVE has is that nerds suck at explaining things because they don't understand people don't think like them.


Wow... EVE is a game you have to put effort into. That isn't a bad thing at all. I'd rather have a game that makes you think and plan over a mindless game that has no lasting value. Maybe you met the wrong people, or perhaps you haven't ventured far enough to see what this game is really all about, but it will certainly bore you if you wait for it to entertain you.

I get though that you want the new experience to train you up, but you see the problem with that is that EVE is a sandbox. The developers can try to train you up to an adequate level of skill regarding the basic facets of the game, but they can't prepare you for everything you'll encounter. It is up to you to adapt.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#599 - 2017-04-02 07:56:32 UTC
Rosie Hazelcrush wrote:
Alexander Maxim wrote:
Server reset. And I say this as someone who has 10 years into this game. I know many friends who like the new mechanics, but won't play because of the powers that be.

Burn it all. Start from scratch.

I bet that subs would be off the charts.

same here, ingame since 2009.

seriously, reset everything. delete all skillpoints, all chars, all corps, all alliances, all blueprints, all citadels, every single isk and asset in the game. respawn all stations, belts (they should be random anyway), moons, agents, everything. re-link the stargates to create a new universe. open servers. boom. eve's persistence has reached a problematic status.


Unless you're also suggesting that CCP hack and delete all the external wikis, forums, Discord, IRC and Whatsapp channels, then your suggestion does nothing but consolidate power further into a small number of player groups.

Our greatest assets are not our wallets or titan fleets or citadels, our greatest assets are the institutional knowledge bases that we used to acquire those things.

Quote:

why not introduce cycles/intervals to the game. every x years a reset happens. adjust skill training time/skill and bpo costs/etc accordingly. allow dual-char training on one account by default. it would focus the game onto what it really is, a fierce competetion, who can reach, settle and hold the outer edge of space first, starting from zero.


If this was to happen there would be no big upheaval like you suggest, the former owners would simply have agreed diplomatic agreements that they move back in and re-establish and the status quo would be preserved, all you're suggesting is CCP making the game more irritating for those groups which generate publicity and headlines. You'd also be dooming the game to guaranteed lull periods - who is going to commit to a war over the resources in the region next door knowing it would all be reset next month? For that matter, who is going to bother logging in to mine or rat or adjust market orders knowing that everything is going to be deleted and zeroed soon anyway?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Rosie Hazelcrush
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#600 - 2017-04-02 08:47:33 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:


...snip...

If you want to be reset to zero, then start a new character. Nobody is stopping you. Better yet, go play a new game and make way for the new breed coming up. But blowing up the entire server because a few bittervets are bored is a breathtakingly stupid idea. My apologies for being offensive, but I don't know how else to say it.


no offense taken. but guess what, i did that in december'16. 2 fresh chars + kept this old one. i'm not bored, not at all, i'm not bitter, and i certainly don't consider myself beeing a "vet". i am still enjoying the game.
you are missing the point though. my idea, and it was merely for the sake of discussion, was to give everyone the same base for a fresh start. single players resetting their chars is far from that.

why did i love eve so much back in '09? because i went the entire hard way from zero to something. i remember when i was counting single isk to be able to afford my first mining barge. when my hands were shaking when nearly losing my first battleship. how proud i was when i finished researching a certain set of BPOs to max. when we set up our first POS and switched on the shiny forcefield. when we calculated cost vs reward when doing invention runs. this entire experience, along with the harsh learning curve - as mentioned multiple times in this thread - made eve one of the most impressive games i ever played.

i am not against persistence, it is one of eve greatest features. i just think that it may have reached a level beyond balancing.