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Test Server Feedback

 
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Trilambda Feature Feedback - Suns, Hangars and Logos!

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Author
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
Just let it happen
#21 - 2017-03-30 20:57:06 UTC
I looked at the suns and was rather horrified at how bad they looked. They have obvious lines of longitude and latitude, and a repeating pattern of crosshatching.

Then I turned up my graphics settings, and as I did so, the crosshatching became less, and eventually disappeared. (I normally run as low settings as I can, as I am using a 7 year old laptop, and sometimes run 3 clients on it.) But on low shader, low texture, they look terrible. Even on low shader, high texture, the crosshatching is visible. To see this the best, go to a system with a red dwarf sun.

BTW, even on the lowest graphics settings, my FPS will sometimes drop to 2.0. It happens quite often in Jita.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#22 - 2017-03-31 02:17:23 UTC
Were there any bookmark changes or resets when the warp-in on suns was changed? One of my alts has over 100 sunbounce bookmarks from the various places I've been (especially wormholes), and I'd probably cry if all of those were reset to the new warp-in...
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2017-03-31 09:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Vincent Athena wrote:
BTW, even on the lowest graphics settings, my FPS will sometimes drop to 2.0. It happens quite often in Jita.


I would look at your launcher settings (go to the launcher menu in the upper right and choose "Settings") and see if "download everything" is checked. If it's not, check it, wait for the download to complete, and see if that helps.

If that's not the issue, please press F12 amd choose Report Bug to submit an in-game bug report, preferably when this is happening. You can press ctrl-F to get the frame rate monitor up and submit a screenshot of that with your bug report.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Zhele Jamohrr
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2017-03-31 15:42:09 UTC
I'd very much rather y'all didn't reduce the granularity of options in Advanced Audio Settings.

ooc, what was the rationale for this change?
Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#25 - 2017-03-31 15:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
I'd like to discuss some changes regarding the Advanced Audio Settings. I'm not sure if your team handles that, but CCP Darwin said to post the feedback here.

Please review this thread on Reddit.
And also this thread that popped up.


  • We'd already like MORE granularity, not less, when it comes to what audio we hear.

  • To my knowledge, nobody has asked for simplified audio settings - I understand this may be something CCP wants to make maintenance easier, but there are so many audio cues that are useful, along with many that can be disabled so the sound stands out. We all have personalized preferences for audio settings. I personally turn off everything except gate/wormhole activations and shield/armor/structure damage alarms. Many others enjoy the music and ambiance while they are out in space. Give us MORE choice, not less!

  • The recent changes to the DSCAN/Probe interface added additional sounds that we cannot turn off unless we turn off ALL UI Interaction (see this thread). We've already asked for separate options to mute the new sounds in the Probe and DSCAN windows, but from the SiSi screenshot posted, it looks like we will have to mute all UI Sounds now. This isn't an acceptable change.


This audio change wasn't even listed on any of the Test Server Feedback threads. Please have a full discussion regarding the audio changes - a separate thread if necessary if your team doesn't handle this.

Thanks!
CCP Sledgehammer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#26 - 2017-03-31 15:48:36 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Were there any bookmark changes or resets when the warp-in on suns was changed? One of my alts has over 100 sunbounce bookmarks from the various places I've been (especially wormholes), and I'd probably cry if all of those were reset to the new warp-in...


Bookmarks shouldn't change in relation to the sun, just the warp-in.

Graphical QA Analyst | EVE Quality Assurance | Team TriLambda

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
Just let it happen
#27 - 2017-03-31 16:07:22 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
BTW, even on the lowest graphics settings, my FPS will sometimes drop to 2.0. It happens quite often in Jita.


I would look at your launcher settings (go to the launcher menu in the upper right and choose "Settings") and see if "download everything" is checked. If it's not, check it, wait for the download to complete, and see if that helps.

If that's not the issue, please press F12 amd choose Report Bug to submit an in-game bug report, preferably when this is happening. You can press ctrl-F to get the frame rate monitor up and submit a screenshot of that with your bug report.

"Download everything" and waiting for it to complete did not help the issue. Bug report 116682 sent.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#28 - 2017-03-31 16:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I'd like to discuss some changes regarding the Advanced Audio Settings. I'm not sure if your team handles that, but CCP Darwin said to post the feedback here.

Please review this thread on Reddit.


  • We'd already like MORE granularity, not less, when it comes to what audio we hear.

  • To my knowledge, nobody has asked for simplified audio settings - I understand this may be something CCP wants to make maintenance easier, but there are so many audio cues that are useful, along with many that can be disabled so the sound stands out. We all have personalized preferences for audio settings. I personally turn off everything except gate/wormhole activations and shield/armor/structure damage alarms. Many others enjoy the music and ambiance while they are out in space. Give us MORE choice, not less!

  • The recent changes to the DSCAN/Probe interface added additional sounds that we cannot turn off unless we turn off ALL UI Interaction (see this thread). We've already asked for separate options to mute the new sounds in the Probe and DSCAN windows, but from the SiSi screenshot posted, it looks like we will have to mute all UI Sounds now. This isn't an acceptable change.


This audio change wasn't even listed on any of the Test Server Feedback threads. Please have a full discussion regarding the audio changes - a separate thread if necessary if your team doesn't handle this.

Thanks!


Agreed to all of this, We need more options not less... CCP you aren't listening to the player base... AGAIN.

    Lets go over some of the past changes that have never been fully fleshed out or options provided for ones you've removed
  • Advanced Audio Camera settings yanked with no alternative (this was actually useful for content creation)
  • Tracking Camera position in the new camera... Still no sign if that's ever going to come back despite clear feedback from people asking for it.
  • You removed a useful keyboard short cut with the double tapping of tab to roll down all windows. We asked for it back and from what I've been told it's supposedly in the works, but still no sign of that being returned.

I'm sure there are more but those are the the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

We need more control over all of the nonsensical sounds you're introducing to the game rather then less.. Hell, some of the audio in the game doesn't even appear to be linked to an associated slider or is linked to something that makes no bloody sense.

I like this game, I like being able to control my experience with in it. If you dumb down the sound options much like you're simplifying everything else you're only going to **** off the player base further.

Just Stop already. Leave the audio options alone and fix the stuff that is linked to the wrong places.

How many times have I submitted a feadback request to mute/turn down incursion audio/thera background noises. Probably 4 or 5 now atleast. Never once I have seen a CCP employee respond to that request.

Listen to the players, don't just arbitarially make changes with out even advising on the "improvements" you've got in the pipe.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

CCP Antiquarian
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2017-03-31 16:17:40 UTC
Regarding the Advanced Audio Changes:

We added some code a few releases back to track how the Advanced Audio features were being used by active EVE players.

We were interested in seeing for players with Audio enabled whether or not Advanced Audio was active, and if so which sliders were actually in use (not default values). We also looked at any prominent combinations of sliders, and where we had duplicated functionality between the main audio settings and the advanced audio settings.

One of the goals was to minimize the amount of work that goes into maintaining and updating the audio system so that the team can focus on issues that affect more players. Additionally, we frequently do receive negative feedback from players about the complexity of options presented in the ESC menu.

We did not want to eliminate all Advanced settings, but we did want to simplify if at all possible. Logging of every active user over the past few releases gave us an indicator of how to move forward with that simplification.

"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."

@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.

Seraph Essael
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#30 - 2017-03-31 16:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
No mention of the new audio changes then? (Posted 10 seconds before me).

This needs addressing. Advanced audio settings do not need to be dumbed down to the point people would rather turn off the sound all together than have the new proposed audio that is currently being seen. It's in the name: advanced.

The settings as they are now are fine and should be left alone. Making us listen to that aweful 'insects running across the headset' ui click will mean people get sick of it and mute all.

There are sounds that are useful, for example wormhole fire, warp ins, shield alarms etc. Lumping them in with sounds like the new scanning sounds (which most people turned off) is downright foolish. I mean with the new scanning sounds I dont even know if my probes are heading off to scan for the first second or two, insead you remove it and put on a jingle when you have a sig at 100%.

And now you're simplifying all the advanced option to 6-8 options as opposed to 30?

Bad move.

This is not acceptable...

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2017-03-31 16:29:37 UTC
CCP Antiquarian touched on this, but I feel it's important to emphasize that the main reason to simplify the audio settings is to reduce the impact on our development of ensuring that those settings work on an ongoing basis. This leaves us able to do more per release as a team.

So, the feedback that would be most helpful would be to focus on what you specifically use those features to do, and why you feel the Singularity implementation falls short.

Leaving things the way they are isn't an option because it doesn't address the underlying problem.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#32 - 2017-03-31 16:29:43 UTC
CCP Antiquarian wrote:
Regarding the Advanced Audio Changes:

We added some code a few releases back to track how the Advanced Audio features were being used by active EVE players.

We were interested in seeing for players with Audio enabled whether or not Advanced Audio was active, and if so which sliders were actually in use (not default values). We also looked at any prominent combinations of sliders, and where we had duplicated functionality between the main audio settings and the advanced audio settings.

One of the goals was to minimize the amount of work that goes into maintaining and updating the audio system so that the team can focus on issues that affect more players. Additionally, we frequently do receive negative feedback from players about the complexity of options presented in the ESC menu.

We did not want to eliminate all Advanced settings, but we did want to simplify if at all possible. Logging of every active user over the past few releases gave us an indicator of how to move forward with that simplification.


We don't all play the same way... So you can't blindly assume what works for the majority works for all... Just saying.

This change is not accetable, Right now as it is half the sounds in the UI update with the latest scanning changes were just lumped under the UI interaction. Some of the sounds I actually find useful or helped with immersion vs. others (say the background noise of the scanning window) that were just an annoyance compounding on top of my game play and felt out of place.

Half of the player base (Alphas or Omegas) probably don't even use the advanced settings anyways, so you're results would be skewed a bit.

I can share my settings when I'm back at my PC, much Like Ransu's post I only use what's vital in a wormhole and everything else clouds the experience. Please consider walking this back.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Brent Anders
Project Pendragon
#33 - 2017-03-31 16:34:25 UTC
Well, can't say much about the new Suns, aside: FELL THE HEAT

I must say those came out pretty neat and epic, and the ambient sound around them also adds to that feeling if being near something rather big and active like a Star. A Solid 10/10 from me.

Once SISI's back up, i gona hopa round and see if i can catch every color there is, and maybe update the List of Pictures here.
Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#34 - 2017-03-31 16:35:18 UTC
I'm a bit more upset that you were planning this (and were gathering metrics), and we had to find out about the change from someone who randomly found this on SiSi, rather than there being a thread for feedback and discussion on this until we brought it up. At least now we're talking about it.

Regardless, I'll test my settings at home and see if the simplified "Advanced" audio settings will fit my needs.

Here's one gent from Reddit who documented which sliders he uses: http://i.imgur.com/bQHLGTq.png
Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#35 - 2017-03-31 16:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
CCP Darwin wrote:
CCP Antiquarian touched on this, but I feel it's important to emphasize that the main reason to simplify the audio settings is to reduce the impact on our development of ensuring that those settings work on an ongoing basis. This leaves us able to do more per release as a team.

So, the feedback that would be most helpful would be to focus on what you specifically use those features to do, and why you feel the Singularity implementation falls short.

Leaving things the way they are isn't an option because it doesn't address the underlying problem.


Hey Darwin - thanks for following up.

I think the community can probably give you enough of a use case to increase the options beyond the current SISI deployment. You know just as well as I do that you don't get a good enough sampling from play testing on Sisi. I think the most players I've seen logged in at once was maybe at the 250 mark. So once this patch goes live, guess what.. The forums will rage, people will get out their pitchforks thanks to (/r/pitchformemporium) and you'll be inidinated with "I don't like this change, bring back the old Aura etc.." chants.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/62isk2/sisi_ui_click_can_no_longer_be_separately_muted/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/62lkta/can_we_please_talk_about_advanced_audio_settings/

I understand the concern from the developement side, but lumping everything together (including the click that I'm sure some people turned off long ago) will not help keep players engaged. The common joke "Eve has Sound?" will only be more common if we lose our ability to control our experience.

Perhaps for these type of changes you take more of an active player feedback stance via surveys or something along those lines. If you were seriously going to put the time into looking into these settings advise the player base more, as this is kinda a big deal and be proactive rather then reactive to your changes.

We don't like surprises and you know exactly how the community responds when something is slid in with minimal knowledge before patch day.

I'm assuming your dev work flow has moved to a more Agile work flow, because you're running on a... what roughly 6 week deployment cycle now? So if its moderately sized cycle you can try something, iterate on what didn't work and release a new version rather than a fire and forget much like the camera features that never returned with the new camera.

Keeping us engaged on the process somehow would benefit you I think too... I know for mass tests players get a SP bump on SISI. The Wargaming.net devs have moved to giving production perks for play testing on their beta platform... Maybe something like that would help get more people engaged in the test process and reduce the pitchforkiness of the player base post patch? Just a thought...

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Seraph Essael
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#36 - 2017-03-31 16:36:54 UTC
If you have been monitering these, can we have a graph of the amount of players that use the advanced against those than dont? And on top of that, can we have a graph of the amount of different settings that are used?

For myself, wormholes are turned right up as I need them as such and gates are turned down because i dont use them / too loud. If you simplify the setting and lump gates and wormholes in the same setting for example, the gates are going to be deafening.

Every person that plays this game plays differently, and to lump a decent current selection advanced setting into a dumbded down, 7 options list is ridiculous.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2017-03-31 16:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Dominous Nolen wrote:
You know just as well as I do that you don't get a good enough sampling from play testing on Sisi.

Data from Singularity would be inadequate for this purpose, yes. The data about usage of these settings that CCP Antiquarian mentioned was collected on Tranquility.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#38 - 2017-03-31 16:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
CCP Darwin wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
You know just as well as I do that you don't get a good enough sampling from play testing on Sisi.

Data from Singularity would be inadequate for this purpose, yes. The data about usage of these settings that CCP Antiquarian mentioned was collected on Tranquility.


Yes and as I mentioned what is the percentage of the player base that actually turns that on vs. don't. Also were you collecting Alpha stats etc from brand new bros?.. Cause they might not know what half that stuff does. I still am finding some of my sliders are keyed to the wrong sounds for ambience and randomly adjust them to try and balance things

I just think much like a few folks have pointed out on reddit and here that we need more options then the proposed.

I'll post up a screen grab of my settings when I'm home. In wormholes I turn down most of my settings to ensure I get only the key info.

I mean if this is truly the route this change is going... I get it, dev time is important, but I'm just thinking maybe an expansion of the features and correction of some of the assignment could be done as well to correct some of the underlaying issues. If you took the list down by half if might save you some headaches... Just think this needs another pass with more feedback (announced feedback request), use the notification system or laucher news item. cause this one... this one will be a big one if people don't realize its coming.

Not everyone pays attention to the forums/reddit, just saying...

Screen cap of my audio settings
http://i.imgur.com/15zsxB3.png

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2017-03-31 16:51:21 UTC
1. Bring in some color into neocom icons.
2. Adjust Chimera so that it looks like Chimera rather than a Rokh.
Thank you in advance.
Kalestrom Crendraven
Alcoholocaust.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#40 - 2017-03-31 16:58:46 UTC
Are you sure that the metrics were being recorded correctly? I'm not trying to be nasty, but every time I talk with someone about their sound setup (that isn't "lol eve has sound??") I've heard some interesting mix of stuff, and helpful information about what is considered in which category (ie: that loud pulsating sound outside a citadel is under "modules" not "station exterior")

As mentioned on reddit, one of the reasons its "complicated" is because the groupings tend to make little sense, or include too many things. More options would actually be welcome, or (pie in the sky) allow us to use custom sound packs.

Next thing I know instead of making it so the sun/bright nebulas don't render the UI mostly unreadable, they'll remove the option to disable camera shake and make it so the entire UI becomes unreadable.