EVE General Discussion

Hello everyone here in New Eden, I would like to share with you all a debate I had recently with a knight of the New Order of High Sec. He is my new special friend in EVE but I would like to point out some things concerning our little chat. But first some background information about the situation. Liek DarZ is a knight and enforcer of the CODE created by James 315, also known as the savior of high sec.
As many of you may already know these knights go around and find ships (preferably miners) who do not own a current mining permit issued by them, they will gank the ship and inform the capsuleer of the CODE violations and inform them to pay the permit fee. Here is where things get so to speak interesting, the capsuleer can agree to pay the fee of 10 million ISK for a one year permit and follow the CODE outlined by these knights and patrols ( also on their website minerbumping.com ) or they can refuse and of course risk further ganking by the knights and the patrols of the CODE.
Well I was ganked by a CODE scout and suicide ganker, Perry Rodent and Photon Death, after which I was contacted in short order by Liek DarZ about my CODE violations. I will give you that conversation here.

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At first a few emails were exchanged and then Liek DarZ invited me into a private chat, here is that chat:
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This last comment was about a matter of finances between him and my old corp COE having not paid the permit fee’s, that issue has been cleared and really is not what to focus on in this conversation.

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He starts out very polite. (He is a courteous and polite person).

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I assume he is referring to the many others who he has had dealings with ganking ships and then of course explaining the CODE to them. Of course my actions leading up to this conversation may very well be compared to those same hatreds.

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I immediately cut to the chase of the comparison I made of CODE.

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Still a weak point to make using game genre comparisons. I believe he would have done better by finding a comparison of the CODE to a RL society to counter my comparison of the CODE to RL societal history, preferably one that was successful. In that way he would placed himself on the same playing field as me and thus garnered good narratives for CODE with equal comparisons. With an angry player who has already made up his/her mind about his corp its easier for him to meet me on the field I have chosen and counter my points rather than try to make me move to his field of argument.

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Here I compared him to RL law enforcement and the CODE to RL law.

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TL:DR

"Nice barge you have there, shame if something happened to it."

I know that EVE is supposed to be a role-playing game but some of the posts by CODE members and supporters are beginning to worry me for the sake of the posters' grasp on reality.

Just admit it. Code is/was a protection racket and dressing it up as "creating content" and all the other specious claims is an insult to the intelligence of other EVE users.

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If this were true then the responses are just threats and not logical arguments, if CODE would not resort to simple threats and actually reason with people they could win over more hearts and minds.

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Always sidestepping or trying to turn my attention to other comparisons rather than debunking my original comparisons he brought little to the table.

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Again not wrong here, welcome to EVE

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Of course at this point he is not even defending CODE he is simply stating the game mechanics now that yes everyone is free to do as they like. However this does not dispute his desire for people to not make a comparison of CODE to Nazi ideology.

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Again calling his CODE “fluff” is proving to me that the CODE is not taken seriously by even members of CODE and its just a way to make ISK and give reason to suicide gank players all the while playing the valiant and holding moral high ground. (It makes them feel good about themselves).
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That word again, if its just “fluff” then why cling to it so hard and role play it so heavily?
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I was actually killed because I figured I would see what Perry Rodent would do, he moved in and began mining I let my guard down believing him a miner, Photon Death swooped in very fast to his beacon and took me out within less than 30 seconds. Inattentive I was not, but with the damage being done at such speed all I could do was sit back watch it end and see what happened next. When Perry didn’t get ganked by Photon I capsuled to dock and now knew the two worked together.
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Not really you still must adhere to their CODE and simply looking it up on the website tab isn’t all of the CODE.
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There is the flaw to his argument, despite my being attentive I was still ganked because I allowed another player to mine near me not knowing that it was a ganker scout. However, this would still be seen as a CODE violation with or without a permit.

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Still more coming?

Is there a one sentence TL;DR?

CONCORD always wins.

TL:DR : This is boring.

Well I cannot fault the man for being polite, he is a very well versed and well spoken person, and with every email that has followed since this debate he has been nothing but polite I still cannot get behind nor pay into the CODE.

As he has said that this thing has and will happen even without CODE then why pay for it? If it is an inevitability then why will I be paying someone who does it then charges me for protection from their organization only for it to happen again by someone not from their organization. As well why pay it at all because even by their own website people comment about killing miners even with permits and its just disregarded as "somehow the 'miner' broke the CODE".

karma balancerMarch 27, 2017 at 9:13 AM
Just for clarification. Im still killing miners. Only difference is, i do not care if you have a permit anymore.

AnonymousMarch 28, 2017 at 8:02 AM

I a miner follows the code he can not be popped in a gank. So, in the end, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy - if you gank and pop a miner without a permit, great. If you gank and pop a miner with a permit, he was clearly not following the Code, his mining permit should have been revoked, still great.

Its that simple. Even after buying a permit you will eventually find yourself being told you have violated CODE and you will lose your ship.

The whole of their endeavor is even made worse by making games of their victim's with a bingo card for what the victims well respond with.

Its all really annoying, that is until you actually read some of the narrative. That is where I started drawing comparisons.

"I give the miners liberation from their own worst instincts."

"The miners are bots. The miners are quite literally less than human. They deserve to be wiped out, every last one of them. To the extent that they still feel anything, it should only be fear, humiliation, and misery." -James 315, Manifesto 1 (December 2011)

"Just so there is no confusion, every freighter and jump freighter found in highsec without a mining permit is subject to immediate termination. Yes, even if the freighter is empty. Yes, even if it's not anti-tanked. Yes, even if the pilot is at his keyboard. Get a permit."
-James 315, June 2014

"Allow me to make one thing perfectly clear to the humans who mine in highsec: We suicide gankers will make no distinction between the botters and those who harbor them." -James 315, Manifesto 1 (December 2011)

With each law I read and with each page on Minerbumping.com I go through it seems to be the same rhetoric: "The miner is the evil and must be highly regulated and eliminated. Those like the miner, freighters and frigates who are not correctly set or are auto piloting or using a ship frame for the wrong purposes need to be educated regulated and terminated."

Sound familiar? As it was that the Jewish peoples were demonized by the Nazi's in history and at first heavily regulated, then corralled and eliminated so too are the miners in EVE by CODE, what's worse is that when you ask: "What about freighters and the others? That doesn't fit the Nazi ideology comparison." Well again that's where history states it again, the Jewish were the main target but in Nazi ideology any undesirable was an enemy to the state and therefor rounded up. This included anyone regardless of faith so long as any four of their family was Jewish, homosexuals were to be eliminated, Black people were to be eliminated, any child who was born with a deformity or mental disability was to be eliminated. There are all the other players they prey upon in EVE.

Its not so much the fact they do it, but if they are comfortable justifying their actions with all this, as Liek DarZ puts it, "fluff" then I would say its pretty bad, thousands of other narratives could be put into play to explain why they do it, but this narrative.

"Always the 'Greedy' miner" Is a constant repeat, change miner with Jew and there it is again, like in Nazi Germany it was "Always the 'Greedy' Jew".

Its a little upsetting seeing it and being able to make such comparisons.

However it is allowed in the game. They break no rules doing this. And again no petitioning the CCP or crying over your loss will change this FACT.

came expecting some light morning reading, left disappointed

You owe me a new scroll wheel cuz I didnt read past the first lil bit anyway.