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Eve is not that scary, is it?

Author
Sylvia Carpenter
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2017-03-28 01:30:24 UTC
I have been trying to recruit my clan mates and friends from another game, but so far not successful. Even though all of them complained and thinking of finding another game.
From what I can gather they said that Eve is scary such as ship is lost when destroyed, have to grind for money, not a free game, takes forever to train, etc.
IMHO Eve is fun, and I get chance to learn a lot about life.
But somehow my friends disagree.
Are they correct? Or Eve is just not for everyone?
o7
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2 - 2017-03-28 01:51:52 UTC
I of course think they are wrong, but well, it is their free time and hard for me to tell them how to spend it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Alaric Faelen
El Ultimo Hombre
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2017-03-28 03:54:03 UTC
Well, Eve is hard. That is the very thing that attracts many people to play it to begin with. At least for me personally, pretty much everything you listed that is scaring your clan-mates away from Eve are exactly the things that made it sound interesting to me.

Eve is just not an instant gratification type of game. It's an RPG from a time when the 'long haul' was favored by players. It's a game that some people like me stick with for years, at the same time it's a game some people can't get away from fast enough after a month.

To be sure, I've had ups and downs with Eve. But the beauty of real-time training means that you can put Eve down for a bit and when you come back you are more powerful or can do whole new things. One of the main reasons I end up quitting games is because I get stuck on something that isn't fun after the 10th failed attempt so I put it down. Then when I think about coming back to it, I remember that the first thing I am going to have to do is that same thing I quit the game over already.

I am so jealous that your friends could join Eve with people they already know and one that already knows the game. I came to Eve without knowing a soul that played, or even what the game was really about to be honest. Back before the NPE, back before so many newbie oriented groups (E-Uni was about the only game in town back then).

Eve has always had a free trial, and now completely free Alpha clones. So there is little reason not to give it a try, or even just make it a casual thing your group of friends jumps into now and then.
Sylvia Carpenter
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2017-03-28 04:46:29 UTC
That's all good points. Perhaps it is just me that terrible in persuasion.
Does anyone have a success story bringing friends from other game into Eve?
How did you do it?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2017-03-28 06:03:19 UTC
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
That's all good points. Perhaps it is just me that terrible in persuasion.
Does anyone have a success story bringing friends from other game into Eve?
How did you do it?

My friend pulled me into eve, all the stories of complexity and player driven conflict were too much to ignore. We pulled in a few more not too much later and we had a ton of fun just messing about in highsec for a bit, corp frig and cruiser brawls taught us to fly pretty well as we searched for any advantage over each other. Naturally we got bored of high and went on a lowsec piracy binge after a few months.

My first exposure to eve was an article in 2005 about corp infiltration and execution, however the writing left me with many misconceptions about eve, and sadly I would wait a bit over another year to jump in. The bit about losing skills was rather poorly stated, and at the time I was playing a game where you trained skills by using them, so losing a month of grinding sounded rather bad. Of course the clone system kept your SP as long as it was properly updated and I never lost SP due to it, and even more fortunate they did away with death clones.

found it: http://www.pcgamer.com/murder-incorporated-ten-months-of-deception-for-one-kill-in-eve-online/

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Ralph King-Griffin
Dissidence Dawn
The-Culture
#6 - 2017-03-28 11:01:19 UTC
my mates are convinced eve is a cult.
granted my alliance name doesn't help with this.

moments like this remind me of what Yahtzee said about us
"the nerds that are to nerds what nerds are to normal people."

combine this with eve being infamous for being
A) Hard
and
B) A Fecking Frighteningly Ruthless freemarket

you get the "BOO" effect
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-03-28 11:27:01 UTC
EvE gives real challanges not mastered in a couple of hours. To succeed you need to be better than other players not just a stupid AI. Things have meaning here, are persistent. You can put in as much time and effort as you want and make it a hobby and social network.

Some of the selling points to me.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#8 - 2017-03-28 12:19:19 UTC
I have a blown up print of Amarr ships blasting away with lasers in my office. I've got some 3D-printed ship models on my desk. I wear EVE T-shirts that read "In space no one can hear you QQ" and "Don't fly anything you aren't prepared to lose." My desktop background is a 3 monitor spanning shot of B-R at it's height. My point is that EVE looks pretty ******* cool in my office.

When people inevitably ask me about the cool spaceship game, I tell em, "Eh... you wouldn't like it."

Most people envision a HOTAS setup on their desk, yankin' and bankin' through a wreck strewn field, Valkyrie style. The reality is more like "slow" naval warfare. The cinematics, while made with in-game footage, are awesome, but the reality is you typically are zoomed out for tactical awareness and looking at red and blue boxes with attitude indicators.

Eventually someone will push through my indifference to the idea of them playing this game, and ask more about it. Those are the ones I send a referral link to. The ones that are fascinated by a completely player-owned market. Who think alliances of thousands of players with incredible industrial power is the backbone of their armada sounds awesome. The few that see so many careers and goals to the game and want to try it. That one person that sees the apparent mass-chaos of a huge fleet fight and can appreciate the organization that's happening amidst all those exploding ships.

To them, I show them how easily an Alpha Clone can join an alliance like BRAVE or Horde; how little ISK it takes to keep flying frigates and meaningfully affecting fights. I show them how much near-passive ISK they can make with an Omega Clone just doing PI, especially in nullsec. I show them the career chart and tell them what those various careers entail. I show them videos of taking down a Rattlesnake with a frigate wasp-pack out in nullsec while it was tethered to a manned citadel (no idea why he targeted us), then snagging a Malediction, an Iteron Mk V, and an Armageddon, all on the same roam, and making it back home alive.

Of all those people I've met in my life (about ten), three of them play EVE with me now. All of them are going to be long-term players now because of Alpha Clones. One has been playing off and on alongside me for years. We both make enough passive income from PI to fund our PVP prowess (and lack of it) every month. The second has been playing about half as long, and I mostly to PVE with him on weekend mornings while we watch HOTS tournaments or sometimes we jump in SOE ships and just go exploring, with little care for if we actually make any ISK. He started PVPing in nullsec with an Alpha recently, and he's getting into that. The last guy just started playing a few weeks ago, and just finished the career agents and did the SOE arc. He's actually really intrigued by the market and industry and wants to try it--plus he wants to bring an Alpha out to nullsec as well.

I don't find EVE scary. I do find it incredibly immersive. But it takes a different attitude to play it. I don't think it's so much about "harder" or "smarter" so much as it's *not* about "winning". Winning in EVE is about enjoyment. The other day we were bored, and someone suggested going on a T1 frigate roam, fully expecting to whelp the fleet in hostile territory. Instead, we blew up billions in ships, while losing a handful of our fleet. It was amazing.

Not impactful, in the grand scheme of things. That doesn't change the fact that we warped 21 frigates onto a station grid with 10 cruisers who all immediately docked up, and stayed docked up while we killed an Armageddon that undocked and aggressed. Was that guy on comms screaming at them to undock and help? We would have been obliterated if he had, especially because we were 23 jumps from home and had no intention of retreating. If they had known we were caring hundreds of millions in loot from a Rattlesnake kill would they have undocked then?

But just the day before, I was flying around in my Astero, plunged into a wormhole (which I have the least experience with) and started wandering around, just to see what was in there. I think I wore out my D-Scan key, and I ran away the first time I saw anyone. I spent over an hour running around and never actually did anything. But I had FUN.
Cyber Pappotte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-03-28 15:04:49 UTC
Takh Meir'noen wrote:
I have a blown up print of Amarr ships blasting away with lasers in my office. I've got some 3D-printed ship models on my desk. I wear EVE T-shirts that read "In space no one can hear you QQ" and "Don't fly anything you aren't prepared to lose." My desktop background is a 3 monitor spanning shot of B-R at it's height. My point is that EVE looks pretty ******* cool in my office.

When people inevitably ask me about the cool spaceship game, I tell em, "Eh... you wouldn't like it."

Most people envision a HOTAS setup on their desk, yankin' and bankin' through a wreck strewn field, Valkyrie style. The reality is more like "slow" naval warfare. The cinematics, while made with in-game footage, are awesome, but the reality is you typically are zoomed out for tactical awareness and looking at red and blue boxes with attitude indicators.

Eventually someone will push through my indifference to the idea of them playing this game, and ask more about it. Those are the ones I send a referral link to. The ones that are fascinated by a completely player-owned market. Who think alliances of thousands of players with incredible industrial power is the backbone of their armada sounds awesome. The few that see so many careers and goals to the game and want to try it. That one person that sees the apparent mass-chaos of a huge fleet fight and can appreciate the organization that's happening amidst all those exploding ships.

To them, I show them how easily an Alpha Clone can join an alliance like BRAVE or Horde; how little ISK it takes to keep flying frigates and meaningfully affecting fights. I show them how much near-passive ISK they can make with an Omega Clone just doing PI, especially in nullsec. I show them the career chart and tell them what those various careers entail. I show them videos of taking down a Rattlesnake with a frigate wasp-pack out in nullsec while it was tethered to a manned citadel (no idea why he targeted us), then snagging a Malediction, an Iteron Mk V, and an Armageddon, all on the same roam, and making it back home alive.

Of all those people I've met in my life (about ten), three of them play EVE with me now. All of them are going to be long-term players now because of Alpha Clones. One has been playing off and on alongside me for years. We both make enough passive income from PI to fund our PVP prowess (and lack of it) every month. The second has been playing about half as long, and I mostly to PVE with him on weekend mornings while we watch HOTS tournaments or sometimes we jump in SOE ships and just go exploring, with little care for if we actually make any ISK. He started PVPing in nullsec with an Alpha recently, and he's getting into that. The last guy just started playing a few weeks ago, and just finished the career agents and did the SOE arc. He's actually really intrigued by the market and industry and wants to try it--plus he wants to bring an Alpha out to nullsec as well.

I don't find EVE scary. I do find it incredibly immersive. But it takes a different attitude to play it. I don't think it's so much about "harder" or "smarter" so much as it's *not* about "winning". Winning in EVE is about enjoyment. The other day we were bored, and someone suggested going on a T1 frigate roam, fully expecting to whelp the fleet in hostile territory. Instead, we blew up billions in ships, while losing a handful of our fleet. It was amazing.

Not impactful, in the grand scheme of things. That doesn't change the fact that we warped 21 frigates onto a station grid with 10 cruisers who all immediately docked up, and stayed docked up while we killed an Armageddon that undocked and aggressed. Was that guy on comms screaming at them to undock and help? We would have been obliterated if he had, especially because we were 23 jumps from home and had no intention of retreating. If they had known we were caring hundreds of millions in loot from a Rattlesnake kill would they have undocked then?

But just the day before, I was flying around in my Astero, plunged into a wormhole (which I have the least experience with) and started wandering around, just to see what was in there. I think I wore out my D-Scan key, and I ran away the first time I saw anyone. I spent over an hour running around and never actually did anything. But I had FUN.


I agree with majority of your points, Eve is not for everyone and is unique due to what it provides. It is one of few, if not the only one, that provides a Real Time skill training. That being said, allows for people to put the game down, and come back with little to no adverse results of putting the game down.
Eve has a player based market, which at times is sweet, but other times it is bitter. Some people don't like player based markets, due to the simple fact, no one really has TRUE control over the market.
Keep in mind I am really new, but I am getting my mind around the Mining area, and each person can find their money making method, and use it to further expand your playing areas. I will be creating an Aplha soon to poke into Null for some good PvP fighting.
Find what they like to do, what type of game player they are, and show them what is available that fits what they like to do.
Alaric Faelen
El Ultimo Hombre
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2017-03-28 15:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
What sold me on Eve was when I finally joined a good corp and made friends. Finally did what I wanted to do in Eve (for me it was be a space pirate).
For months prior to that I just care bear'd in high sec running missions and was on the fence about this game. I saw huge potential in Eve, but everything cool always seemed to be another week of training away. (spoiler, it isn't- just go do stuff)

My first PvP experience was being podded by my own FC during a nerd rage.
A couple months after I started playing Incarna released and the players rioted.
I lost my first T2 ship (a Hound) because I didn't understand how CONCORD worked and died like a moron in front of a miner whom I am sure is still rolling on the floor laughing to this day.
The CEO of the corp I joined on a random invite stole everything and left, leaving ME as CEO of a corp when I was still figuring out how the D-Scan worked.

And yet, here I still am playing this terrible game. Lol

The moment I flew to low sec in a few fail-fit Rifters and challenged people at the sun, I knew I should have been there all along. Yeah, I lost every time, even forgot about my clone and lost skill points twice (when that was how clones worked)-- but I stuck around and asked the victors what I could do better.
Pretty soon I was asked to join that pirate corp. It's all about your attitude.

This is when Eve became an obsession. A great bunch of guys from literally all over the world. I played Eve as much to hang out with them as to play the game. We did all manner of silly things. I helped fit and move 100 Rifters to a POS so we could have a free-for-all corp brawl (and I got the final blow on our CEO and bragging rights). Myself in a Stiletto and a friend in a Rifter got a kill on a guy in a faction battleship (back when those were extremely rare)- two newbs downed a shiny battleship!

Eventually I moved to Null and took part in most of the biggest battles in game history. Been on the winning and losing side of the biggest wars. Just a very small cog in a much larger wheel...but to steal from CCP's own advertising....I was there.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#11 - 2017-03-28 20:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Eve is what you make of it.

Most people are utterly confounded by MMO's that don't hold your hand, don't give you direction and have full loot mechanics. The more mainstream games have set paths to follow, replace losses and disallow some of the more nefarious activities, when confronted with a game that does very little of these those who have played the more mainstream MMO's run a mile, because almost everything they thought they knew about MMOs suddenly becomes irrelevant.

People who've never played an MMO may well be more likely to stick with Eve, they have no preconceptions to shatter; it's certainly true of myself, as an MMO virgin when I found Eve, it's ruined other MMOs for me.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2017-03-29 01:51:03 UTC
Eve is definitely not for everyone.

If you enjoy real challenges then you might like Eve. However if your friends are looking for the themepark fluff job that most other MMOs lead players to expect then they won't like Eve.

Eve does not need to be a grind for ships. It only winds up that way if you try and play Eve like it is one of the many WoW clones. People get used to grinding long and hard for the best in slot gear before they can do anything. They have a difficult time accepting the concept of being able to be successful in very cheap "entry level gear".

It can be fun if your friends are truly willing to try something new.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2017-03-29 02:05:25 UTC
Alpha status sidesteps the 'it's not free' barrier

Tell em it's a bit like an extended trial
and that some things are off-limits to free accounts
if they don't like it, they've lost nothing, coz they played a game WITH you.

as all ready mentioned, eve isn't for everyone
so it's okay for them to not like it

right now, they only think they wont like it
after a short while as an alpha .. they'll know for definate
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2017-03-29 02:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
OP... if you haven't already, take a look at my thread in the sticky section of this very forum:

How did you Veterans start?


As for my opinion regarding the game: It is both harder and easier than people make it out to be.

It is harder in that...

- there is a lot of stuff to memorize

- there are a lot factors you have to consider before doing something

- there is no place that is "safe" in a contemporary sense

- loss is permanent

- things you build and create are not permanent (you have to work at it and defend it)

- players are generally out to "get you"

- you can't "powergrind" to success. Things take time. And impatience is often rewarded with failure.

- being "bigger," richer, and having more skills/skillpoints is no guarantee of success or effectiveness (see: 1 newbie in trash ship vs 9 year veteran in expensive equipment = easy kill for the vet... 5+ newbies in trash ships vs 9 year veteran in expensive equipment = very real possibility the veteran may die)



It is easier in that...

- you can set the pace for how "fast" you want to "advance." You may not become a person who is reported on in the EVE blogs... but you can potentially become the "baron" of your own particular "hill" if you play your cards right

- if you have a mechanical mind and value "process" based systems and methods, you will go places in EVE

- Communication / "networking" with other players lies completely outside of the game mechanics and can do more for you than any amount of skillpoints or resources/wealth

- while players in the game will not hesitate to shoot, blackmail, or steal from you... they will also be more than willing to teach you. You simply have to frame the question correctly (see: less crying/whining, more curiosity and humor)

- there are so many ways to achieve "victory." You can blow someone up, deny opponents a kill, gang up on someone, destroy more ships/resources than they destroy of yours, etc.
Ultimately... "winning" in EVE is more about what sets you on top strategically rather than straight battles

- Bigger and more expensive ships can be blown up by smaller, cheaper ships... you simply have to learn the mechanics and devise a strategy

- you are not required to log in to improve your character or advance. You can set things up to be more passive and log in when you want.
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2017-03-29 02:13:03 UTC
No game is for everyone. And as far as MMOGs go, Eve is quite archaic. Think about it - back in the days of MUDs or even early graphical MMOGs, full loot, permanent loss, unrestricted playerkilling and even permanent death were the norm, rather than the exception. MMOGs were not for everyone back then, and they aren't for everyone today. The flood of carbon copy "themepark" MMOGs we've had since World of Warcraft have unfortunately turned this around - now it is the norm that your character and assets are safe, that you can avoid actual competition if you want and that you get held by the hand and led through the games content. And players do expect an MMOG to be exactly that.

And I can sympathize. Back when I first started playing online games, the notion of going up against other players was really scary. But the notion of playing in a persistent world with hundreds and even thousands of other players was so cool, and there were no alternatives, so like many other player I bit the bullet and learned to lose. This is something players these days have a very hard time doing.

Losing is actually fun, if you can handle it. And there are many games that build on that fact. They are called "roguelikes", although the only thing they all have in common with rogue these days is that you will lose. These games are not popular, as many people don't take the effort to understand how they can be fun these days. But for the players that do play them, those games usually have a much longer life than all the "nice" themepark games out there. And the same goes for Eve.

I ultimately don't think you can make your friends try Eve. And if they are expecting a free game, I don't think it would be a good thing if you could anyway. People who are seriously expecting a good, free game anywhere are asking to get disappointed.
CowQueen MMXII
#16 - 2017-03-29 10:30:02 UTC
I started playing in June 2010 after seeing some friends play. In the first three months I did a little bit of everything that is to do in hi-sec while they were trying to teach me things I need to know. Had my first few ship losses (to NPCs), went into low sec, joined them on Lvl 4 missions and so on.
At the end of those three months I was actually rather bored with Eve and thought about quitting again. Then one of them suggested to move to a wormhole system. I neither had the proper skills nor the experience or knowledge but decided to go along anyway.
The day I moved in, I immediately put some mining lasers on my Prophecy and started to work that Arkonor. Thirty minutes after my arrival I was back in Hi-sec and needed a new ship. SO I bought another Prophecy and went straight back in.
This exact moment made all the difference, because it gave me motivation (no, not revenge) and it was exciting.A month later this character (now my main char) was born and I stayed in wormhole space for over six years.

And while Eve may not be for everyone, there is a place for many - they just need to find it. Either by doing what they really like or being with people they have fun with.

Moo! Uddersucker, moo!

Dupard Lemmont
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2017-03-29 11:34:15 UTC
I feel alot of the content in EVE is well hidden. When you can uncover the hidden content and possibilities in the EVE Universe, this game becomes 10 times more exciting.
EVE is not a solo-game like many other games out there including certain mmorpgs which has alot of solo content. EVE is a social game. Team up with groups and you'll have ten times the fun. Even if you're just listening in on voice in a NPSI whelp fleet. Or taking a theoretical class in EVE University.

I feel alot of players get into this game, complete the "tutorial", then end up doing grindy stuff solo, for example agent mission or highsec combat sites.. or veldspar mining - which quickly gets boring. No variation. And that's a shame. They leave the game and judge it without seeing the whole picture. Without knowing all the potential content this game has to offer.

I would not like CCP to change this aspect however. But maybe they should push harder on new players, encouraging them to be social and seek out friends in new eden.
Honrado deQuiros
Cartella Shipments and Storage
#18 - 2017-03-29 12:28:06 UTC
I think EvE is more like of an arcade type of game, i unno. There are slow parts, then fast ones, then some ass-puckering moments.. I'm multitasking between WoT, WoWS and EvE.. and all i've been doing in eve is warp.. warp.. warp.. while waiting for rooms in the other games. So no, not scary.

I think your friends is concerned with the time needed to play another game, while they are still engaged with their current favs. I stumbled into EvE coming from Navyfield Online, an old, old warship MMO, so hearing about frigates, cruisers and battleships in EvE intrigued me. Ultimately not having anything comparable with my older mmo, I stayed because of the stories and week/month/year long vendettas and rivalries.
Cyber Pappotte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2017-03-29 12:38:09 UTC
Dupard Lemmont wrote:
I feel alot of the content in EVE is well hidden. When you can uncover the hidden content and possibilities in the EVE Universe, this game becomes 10 times more exciting.
EVE is not a solo-game like many other games out there including certain mmorpgs which has alot of solo content. EVE is a social game. Team up with groups and you'll have ten times the fun. Even if you're just listening in on voice in a NPSI whelp fleet. Or taking a theoretical class in EVE University.

I feel alot of players get into this game, complete the "tutorial", then end up doing grindy stuff solo, for example agent mission or highsec combat sites.. or veldspar mining - which quickly gets boring. No variation. And that's a shame. They leave the game and judge it without seeing the whole picture. Without knowing all the potential content this game has to offer.

I would not like CCP to change this aspect however. But maybe they should push harder on new players, encouraging them to be social and seek out friends in new eden.

I strongly agree CCP should maybe players be a little more social. Being new, I found issues with contacting other players, due to I came from Runescape, Maplestory, League of Legends, etc. so I had a basic mind set of what I was expecting for EVE. Little did I know it was totally different.
I was grinding by mining an Asteroid Anom. and got a chat invite from a guy sitting in an Orca asking me what I was doing orbiting the asteroid, in a very funny unique manner. Got to talking to him, and joined his fleet and corp. At that moment I saw the benefits of playing in groups and being involved in fleets.
EVE is a social game, grinding does not have to be grinding when you have fleets going out and giving you bonuses and improving your mining skills when you are just starting out.
Dupard Lemmont
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2017-03-29 13:38:41 UTC
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