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Have Multiboxers and Botting ruined Eve Online?

Author
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
#121 - 2017-03-28 18:57:26 UTC
As a former high sec multiboxing miner I would have to say that CCP has been taking steps to make multiboxing harder.

The first was the ice belt change. If you were around before the ice anomoly change over, you would have seen fleets on the scale of 100's of miners that could sit in the same spot 23.5/7 and never clear the belt. With the anomolies, it is much harder to sustain a fleet of that size in high sec, but it is still a matter of trying to mine "your share" before anyone else.

The next was the massive revamp on ISBoxer policy. Once again, you would see massive fleets chewing up everything in site. And without ISBoxer and similar apps, it is much harder to operate fleets of that size.

Lastly, for me at least, came the change to OGB. This really messed with the efficiency of my little setup. I don't think I will ever play with more than 3 miners again.

But what it comes down to is that mining is a necessary evil in Eve. There are only a select few people who can stand the monotony of grinding rocks so ships can be built. And those happy few must maintain the demand for minerals. If you remove multiboxing you will reduce the overall supply of mins, which will make everything else in Eve more expensive. In the long run it might settle, but in the short run you could create havoc.
Trebon Luap
Hard Rock Mining Inc.
#122 - 2017-03-28 19:06:08 UTC
Lara Agnon wrote:
Trebon, what is (was) your playstyle? Enter an Ice belt in your Orca, target the 150 piece rock, send your drone on it, and finally go to work? After work you fly back enjoying the 150 pieces of ice that were mined while you were afk?

Your post sounds just like that. And if there are only 10 pieces inside your ore hold you start mimimi and blame the guy who targeted and mined "your" rock.

Eve is not like that, Eve is competitive so you have to defend your rock. Either kill the mining fleet that annoys you or just log on your favorite machariel alt and bump the bot fleet into oblivion. There is always a way to go in Eve, even in highsec. Of course, if the bot is not a bot but a player he might get mad at you and you'll gonna suffer.

If you played alone in Eve you might not know that mining corps in highsec do have pvp squads and ganking squads to get rid of competitors in "their" highsec mining system.



I have mined rocks and Ice alone and In medium, small, and large fleets. And, yes, I do know that Eve, at it's core is a competion.

Your responce does seem to be more directed at my, or my, preceved "play style" rather than the issue of the large multiboxer fleets and bot fleets that I have mostly focused on.

People have and will continue to say... just do something else in Eve..... well, yes there is a wide variety of things to do, but so far I have focused on the asspect that I have found to be most interesting. Some others would not choose to do what I have done, to each his own.

I have seen things change in Eve over the years, some good and some not so good changes, in respect to me and some others I have had dealings with.
This thread was started because I have found this issue affecting my little corner of Eve, and I have reached out to the comunity via the forums to help myself and other work through this issue.
So far there has been some very good points brought forth for me to consider; judging by the veiw count on this topic, It is an interesting Iissue.
Lara Agnon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2017-03-28 19:22:26 UTC
Well, you address two very different things together: multiboxers and botters. Multiboxing is allowed, botting is not. So regarding botters I agree with you 100%.

Multiboxing, however, is different. Many - I don't have the numbers but my guess is much more than 50% - players have more than one account. Especially new players choose multiple alts as their main toon does not have all the skillpoints they want. So specializing on different accounts helps to catch up to older players. If you kill multiboxing, you'll kill eve.

There is - from your point of view - no difference if you share an asteroid belt with 20 individual players in a fleet or one multiboxer with 20 accounts. The belt will be mined in the same amount of time.
Trebon Luap
Hard Rock Mining Inc.
#124 - 2017-03-28 19:50:25 UTC
Lara Agnon wrote:
Well, you address two very different things together: multiboxers and botters. Multiboxing is allowed, botting is not. So regarding botters I agree with you 100%.

Multiboxing, however, is different. Many - I don't have the numbers but my guess is much more than 50% - players have more than one account. Especially new players choose multiple alts as their main toon does not have all the skillpoints they want. So specializing on different accounts helps to catch up to older players. If you kill multiboxing, you'll kill eve.

There is - from your point of view - no difference if you share an asteroid belt with 20 individual players in a fleet or one multiboxer with 20 accounts. The belt will be mined in the same amount of time.




I will reiterate again....

I am not adressing the people multiboxing two or three accounts, that is, one item I have come to agree with, from this discussion.

I am more focues towards the large and massive multiboxing fleets that take over entire systems. How big is to big?

When these fleets are massive like this, as others have posted, they can still be run manually, but when you "Look at" these fleets in game, you can see automation being used by some of them. This is where a multiboxer becomes a botter. A true botting program can be used on just one account as well. These are harder to spot from a players prospective; other than seeing a player mine constantly all day every day.

But even without the automation, when does multiboxing become an issue?

Just to ponder...

If massive multiboxing fleets take over mining in H.S. , does it matter to everyone?
Directly, no, but I am putting forth the idea that it does indirectly, over time. I am saying it affects the health and diversity of the player base.

Lara Agnon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2017-03-28 20:12:12 UTC
Well you might already have guessed it - I am one of the multiboxers.

I do not use any program to help me but alt-tab between accounts.

Anyway, let me explain why I do it:

I started as a solo miner last year. It was boring. It was sooooooo boring. I hated it. But I also loved it because it was quite nice after a day working to relax while mining.

So I was starting to improve my mining experience. I started another account. Let it skill up and use another retriever. While doing it my main account was ganked by CODE. So I decided maybe it is better to have another toon fly an Orca and use Procurers and later Skiffs for the miners. 3 Accounts. I started to put up an Excel sheet to calculate profit. Calculations suggested it is even more profitable per toon to have more miners. Another two accounts. Now I was mining too much to live without a hauler. So I started another toon to haul my stuff to a station. But the hauler did cost a plex per month and i needed another two miners to cover the cost..

Right now I am running a 14 account mining fleet that might look scary to a solo miner. Especially if i warp in with orca, obelisk and 12 skiffs. But for me it is fun. Mining is not boring any more but demanding. It is really complicated to get all miners running, cover all the drones, move the loot to orca and freighter.

So, at the end it is all about having fun while killing time playing a game.
Trebon Luap
Hard Rock Mining Inc.
#126 - 2017-03-29 01:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Trebon Luap
Lara Agnon wrote:
Well you might already have guessed it - I am one of the multiboxers.

I do not use any program to help me but alt-tab between accounts.

Anyway, let me explain why I do it:

I started as a solo miner last year. It was boring. It was sooooooo boring. I hated it. But I also loved it because it was quite nice after a day working to relax while mining.

So I was starting to improve my mining experience. I started another account. Let it skill up and use another retriever. While doing it my main account was ganked by CODE. So I decided maybe it is better to have another toon fly an Orca and use Procurers and later Skiffs for the miners. 3 Accounts. I started to put up an Excel sheet to calculate profit. Calculations suggested it is even more profitable per toon to have more miners. Another two accounts. Now I was mining too much to live without a hauler. So I started another toon to haul my stuff to a station. But the hauler did cost a plex per month and i needed another two miners to cover the cost..

Right now I am running a 14 account mining fleet that might look scary to a solo miner. Especially if i warp in with orca, obelisk and 12 skiffs. But for me it is fun. Mining is not boring any more but demanding. It is really complicated to get all miners running, cover all the drones, move the loot to orca and freighter.

So, at the end it is all about having fun while killing time playing a game.





Nice to hear your poinf of view on the subject, without the hate. It is very helpful to me in hearing from someone on the opposite side of an issue.


From your post I can see a point of the skill needed/used to multibox without the botting.
Antheria
Zunnta Corporation
League 0f Grumpy 0ld Farts
#127 - 2017-03-29 03:10:07 UTC
I used to regularly run a mining fleet with 1 Orca, 6 Skiffs plus a freighter. I still dust the fleet off now & then.

All were operated "manually" as I am fortunate enough to have a decent PC & 3 monitors. I never ran AFK (except for maybe a quick bio occasionally).

All my accounts are subbed via SP farming & I use my mining income to replace ships lost in PvP or buy blingy stuff on my incursion ships. It took me 5 years of paying subs to get all of these characters to that level.

I know several other people who do much the same thing & I see no reason why this is a problem.

The only issues worth complaining over are people using software to multi-box or people AFK for extended periods. Competing for resources (or anything else for that matter) with other players is the very basis of EvE.

It sounds like you are a single miner competing for resources with many other people in a system. You are still generating the same per hour income as a solo miner, the only difference being belts might be depleted faster with more people in system. Simple answer - move to a quieter system. From personal experience there are some very quiet systems around where you can mine 24/7.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2017-03-29 06:22:24 UTC
Trebon Luap wrote:
The multiboxing and botting fleets are becoming more and more prevalent in "day-to-day" game play.
This is not some ad hoc issue that I just decided to start posting about after four years of game play.

I've been a Capsuleer now for over 8 years and to be honest I don't know if Multiboxing and Bot fleets are becoming more prevalent now compared to 4 years ago but I wouldn't doubt it though.

However when you compare how Eve was in the 4 years prior to 2013, I don't think it's a very big issue, especially when the average amount of players online from 2009 to 2013 was close to 50k compared to 2013 to 2017 which had average amount of players online being just above 40k. Also I'd like to say that 2016 had average amount of players online at just above 30k.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Seems to me there should be plenty of resources available now compared to how it was years ago. Definitely no reason to quit. The Eve Universe is big with lot's of empty systems. If there's a large amount of competition in the area making it hard to gather resources, then go to another area.



Lugues Slive wrote:
As a former high sec multiboxing miner I would have to say that CCP has been taking steps to make multiboxing harder.

The first was the ice belt change. If you were around before the ice anomoly change over, you would have seen fleets on the scale of 100's of miners that could sit in the same spot 23.5/7 and never clear the belt. With the anomolies, it is much harder to sustain a fleet of that size in high sec, but it is still a matter of trying to mine "your share" before anyone else.

The next was the massive revamp on ISBoxer policy. Once again, you would see massive fleets chewing up everything in site. And without ISBoxer and similar apps, it is much harder to operate fleets of that size.

Lastly, for me at least, came the change to OGB. This really messed with the efficiency of my little setup. I don't think I will ever play with more than 3 miners again.

But what it comes down to is that mining is a necessary evil in Eve. There are only a select few people who can stand the monotony of grinding rocks so ships can be built. And those happy few must maintain the demand for minerals. If you remove multiboxing you will reduce the overall supply of mins, which will make everything else in Eve more expensive. In the long run it might settle, but in the short run you could create havoc.

Before the great Ice Belt change of 2013 and all the other changes you listed, there was the ongoing war on Bots which was officially declared by CCP in 2011.

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-eve-security-taskforce-report-a-bot/

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/begun-the-bot-war-has/



DMC